Scoutmaster Podcast 291

I'm David Wilkes and I am an assistant Scoutmaster with troops 68 in Dallas, Texas. This edition of the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like me. Love what you do in, Clark, Keep it up.

And now the old Scoutmaster: How'd? You've been a scouter for a while. You realize that a lot of things in scouting should go without saying.

Okay, that you should step back and let scouts lead, and that in doing that you're going to endure a little bit of chaos and uncertainty at times. There are some things that do not go without saying, For instance, everything that a scout needs on a camping trip. None of that goes without saying, And a lot of it doesn't go even if you do say:

Hey, this is podcast number 291.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look in the mailbag. We heard from Todd Rabie, who's a Scoutmaster with troop 400..

He says: I've been listening to your podcast and I think I've listened to over a hundred in about three weeks. Wow, Ooh, that could be dangerous, Todd, be careful.

Uh, I do plan on becoming a backer because I think you are doing the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your website and podcasts are great And what you're doing is awesome.

Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Todd.

I don't know if we can out do sliced bread, but we're certainly going to give it a shot. Okay, This past week republished an article about three kinds of leadership, based on things said by the founder of scouting, Baden Powell, and Lao Zai, who's an ancient Chinese philosopher, And even though they wrote, uh, centuries apart in different parts of the world, they kind of called out the same three types of leadership styles. But anyway, check out that article if you get a chance. John Collins commented on that article.

Thanks for the gentle- or not so gentle- reminders about leadership. Timothy nurse thought it was a great article. Christian said: good info. Last year I wrote a skip for my Webelos- one dead- called the three patrol leaders, which dealt with three different leaders trying to get the same patrol to do the same thing. But using three different leadership styles actually falls right in line with what you're saying here. That's a.

That sounds like an interesting skit, Doesn't it? Maybe I can get Christian to send that in. And Ken Donahue tweeted that day: We're excellent information.

Well, thanks everybody. I'm glad you enjoyed that article. I'm glad that you find it useful If you've been hanging around for a while.

You know, every week I try to get a couple of live chat sessions in over at scoutmastercgcom. If you keep an eye on our Facebook feed and our Twitter feed, I will announce when we're going to be live. It's usually Tuesday and Wednesday mornings and you can come ahead and join us and we chat about everything. Sometimes it's pretty serious stuff and sometimes it's just the weather. In addition to the many frequent fliers who check in with me every week- Eric, who's a scoutmaster in Erie, Pennsylvania, Brian Bush, who is a scoutmaster in Baldwin, Missouri, and Kevin Kay, who's the cubmaster of pack 464 in Manuka, Illinois, all checked in on the chat for the first time this week And we certainly appreciate hearing from you.

So come on over. Like I said, keep an eye on the Facebook and Twitter feeds for live chat announcements. Come on over and join us. It's great fun.

Now, next summer, I am going to be going back to Condorsteg Condorsteg International Scout Center in Condorsteg, Switzerland. Now, if you've never traveled to Switzerland before, Condorsteg is in what's called the Bernie's Overland and it's just a magical place to visit. Plus, the International Scout Center that was founded back in the 1920s is a wonderful place to visit. It's kind of like a continuous mini world jamboree all summer long.

Every week there's oh three or four hundred scouts from all over the world are visiting, And next summer will be my third trip And I want to invite you to come along. I've been able to provide the opportunity for my scouts to take advantage of this incredible experience, and I'll take you right along with me. The days for the trip are July 16th through the 23rd, and I will have a link in the post that contains this podcast about how you can participate. If you want to bring a group, that's fine. If you just want to come ahead yourself, that's fine too.

So that's Condorsteg 2016.. Don't miss it. It's going to be great fun. I need to ask everybody a favor. I need your help. The blog and the podcast started back in 2005..

It's 10 years ago now and I didn't plan on what's happened. I didn't plan this at all.

I just started blogging and then we added the podcast and then it just kind of exploded, And I'm really pleased that people from all over the world tell me the information that we share is useful, And I hear from a lot of folks every week, and it's heartening to know that I'm able to lend them a hand. So what I'm asking in return is that you support the podcast and the blog by becoming a ScoutmasterCGcom backer. It's really easy to do. Go to ScoutmasterCGcom, click the support link at the top of the page. You'll find a number of options for making a voluntary, one time kind of subscription payment to help me keep things up and running.

The money we get from backers goes to the expenses of producing the blog and the podcast, And this week I want to thank Bruce Colkeback, Eric Morphy, Josh Kamoli and Jim Gilligie, who became backers since last week's podcast. Once again, real simple to do. Go to ScoutmasterCGcom, click the support link at the top of the page and become a backer. This week I'll be sure to thank you personally on our next podcast.

Well, in this week's podcast I got a couple of really good email questions to answer, and that's going to take up the remainder of the podcast. So let's get started, shall we? On the beat boy, beat boy. Yeah, you are always on the beat boy, beat boy. I'll hang it in the street boy, street boy. We will dance into the beat boy, beat boy.

Yeah, You're my favorite all time boy Scout. You're my favorite all time boy Scout. He's my favorite all time boy Scout. Write me a letter, send it by name Email. That is folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Now let's see. Oh, this is going to be anonymous week With the email questions.

A couple of you know reasonably sensitive situations that people email me about, and both of them wanted to remain anonymous. Well, the first question I got is about a Scout who said he just doesn't have time for Scouts anymore and he wants to quit, But his mom is insisting that he continue on in Scouts.

So his mom wants him to get Eagle. He says he doesn't really feel it's a realistic goal for him and he's not sure how anyone could do it if their heart's not in it. He's pretty frustrated with the whole thing and is pretty torn as to what to do. The person that sent me the email said we told him that being a Scout is a big responsibility and if he doesn't feel he can do it he needs to tell his mom, and I don't think it helped. The Scout is a great kid and I'm sure he's tried to reason with his folks, but they push him very hard.

So how do we resolve this situation? Well, you know something. You said something there that kind of stuck out: Being a Scout is a big responsibility. I don't know when that happened. My understanding is that being a Scout is about adventure and fun and hanging out with your pals.

You know, at least from the Scout's perspective, that's what it ought to be. Scout's advance is a natural result of doing those things right. It's challenging, but a big responsibility really.

I mean, did somebody change this around when I wasn't looking? I wouldn't cast it in that light because I really don't think Scouting is a big responsibility.

I think it's a lot of fun. Now, if parents are really pushing a Scout and he's feeling really stressed out, really no big deal. You're going to get out of Scouting whatever you put into it. And if you're doing lots of other things and you aren't able to put 110% into this, that's no big deal. Let's figure out how that's going to work And with the age of the Scout in question, he's got loads of time to work on Eagle And I would tell him, given your abilities and the kind of Scout you are, it will probably be one of the easier things that you do.

How do I know to say that to the Scout? Based on the email that I got, He's unsure about taking on a position of responsibility and that he can do it well. And just that little piece of knowledge means that this Scout is aware enough that if he's going to take on a position of responsibility, he wants to do it well.

So that tells me an awful lot about this individual, And I would tell him that taking on a position of responsibility doesn't need to be a big giant deal. It can be pretty simple really.

What would you like to do? What do you have time to do?

What would you really get a kick out of doing? Can you instruct some of the newer Scouts?

How about showing up at some Den meetings to help out? But I can't go to Den meetings because, jeez, I've already scheduled out and I have to make all the troop meetings. And I would tell him: hey, look, no problem, Skip the troop meetings. We'll figure out what that looks like and we'll agree on what fulfills the requirement for a position of responsibility and being active with the troop. Yeah, but I can't go camping all the time. Hey, that's really no problem either.

Let's figure out what trips you can make in the next few months and you don't have to be there every single time that we open the door. But my mom is pushing really hard and she's going to push me to be involved in everything that I can possibly be involved in, and she just doesn't understand that I've got a lot of other things on my plate.

Look, you know what? How you and I figure out just how much time you have to devote to scouting over the next few months, and let's do this a few months at a time.

Okay, You can take what we decide to your mom and explain that this is what we decided, and if you want me to explain it to her, I'd be happy to. If I'm going to be an Eagle Scout, I need to get a pile of merit badges.

Well, you have X number of months, okay, So let's say the scout was 15.. That means he has 36 months, and if he had absolutely no merit badges, that means he needs to earn one about every two months or so, But he probably has some merit badges already.

So figuring out, like you know, a benchmark for earning merit badges- that shouldn't be too difficult. And merit badges for this guy, who's obviously pretty sharp and is academically talented, are going to be pretty simple. The biggest challenge is going to be finding and meeting with counselors.

But let's see what merit badges you have now, what you need, and we'll start picking away the best of the ones that are required for Eagle. But, man, then I got to do an Eagle project and that's just going to be a killer. Look, the Eagle project doesn't have to be a killer.

It just sounds like a big giant deal and it's important- okay, But it doesn't have to be this massive undertaking. There is a lot of paperwork, for sure, and that's a lot of times the most challenging thing. But you're a first-class scout now. You have four months to star, six months to life.

We can start thinking about Eagle projects now. You can start doing some research- You're not under the gun here- And then, when you become a life scout, you'll have a very solid idea of what you're going to do and we'll start pulling things together.

So at this point, all of this should sound pretty doable, right? I know mom's pushing you and it's something you really don't want to do at this point. I get that, but I would suggest that your perspective may have changed during our conversation here.

I think you'll be fine. Let's have a plan and start doing our best to sticking to it. Let's stay focused on having a great time with your pals and doing the things that you really do like about scouts And the other stuff will come along. Naturally It's important, but you're going to sail through most of it. Millions of scouts have and you'll get a lot of help and support. Yeah, but I'm really worried about all the time it's going to take.

Well, look, I'm not worried about that at all. You bring the scout oath and law and the other things you've learned in scout, all those other activities you do. Because I'm talking to a scout who's playing sports and is involved in a couple of other extracurricular activities in school. Right, He's likely to have a leadership role in the sport that he's playing. He's likely to have a leadership role in some of the other extracurricular activities he's doing.

So my job is to figure out how to make this work for this individual scout. My bet is is that there is absolutely no time where he's just kind of sitting around the house staring at the ceiling.

He's a busy guy and he's got six different things going on, so that sounds like an Eagle Scout to me And my job is figuring out how to make that happen for him. He's caught in a big schedule. He's caught with a lot of pressure from many different things and his parents- and he hasn't been through all this before. I have many, many times. I have a better perspective than he has and I can sit down with him and I can talk through these things and we're going to figure out a way to make this happen.

And then, once we've got our plan sketched out, we're going to talk a lot because it's going to be challenging. I'm not talking about knocking off all the challenges.

I'm just talking about making it possible for an individual scout- and there are going to be problems along the way. We're going to set up a plan right and then the plan is going to fall apart and we're going to have to reassemble it.

But we can get things sorted out And I'm going to tell the scout: what usually happens is you're going to get disappointed in something and then you're going to hide out and you're not going to want to talk to me because you feel like you've let me down or something. Don't worry about that. The most important thing is you don't ever feel like this is all too much.

So we have to communicate on a regular basis. So that's my answer to the question: You've got a scout who's way over scheduled, whose parents are pressuring him.

What do you do to help him resolve that? Well, first of all, it is possible I've had some incredibly busy guys who had a lot of parental pressure and, taking into account all the things that they're doing, the pressure they're getting from home, sitting down and saying, alright, look, let's change your perspective on this, because you're seeing this one way. But you need to understand there is not just one way for this to happen. There's lots of different ways.

So we're going to come up with a plan that works for you. That's really where we get to the way of some resolution and the scout goes back to having fun in scouts and being able to have that time in scouting, kind of as a respite from all of the other pressures that are going on.

What about just telling the parents off? Right?

Well, good luck with that. And you notice here, at no time do I think that I need to tell the parents off. I don't. People, families are different. Families do things differently. There are all kinds of parenting styles.

There are all kinds of families and if you want to start messing around with the dynamics of a family and the way parents parent their children. What you're doing basically is like taking a fine Swiss watch, opening the back and looking and seeing that things are ticking and moving around in there, and then you get like a screwdriver and you try and fix the watch.

You know that that's not going to work because you don't know what's going on in there. You know you have maybe a basic idea, but you're going to mess something up more than you're going to fix it right. I found out that families are kind of that way. You see things ticking and moving and you think you may understand what's going on, but as soon as you try to fix something like that, you're going to find- you're going to find out- that you really don't understand much of anything about what's going on.

So sit down with that scout, help them work it out, help them develop a perspective where they can get back to enjoying scouts and having fun and still achieve those things that they have their eyes on. This next email came from a scouter who said: I was recently called out as an adult candidate for the order of the arrow. Unfortunately, my son, though eligible, was not elected as a candidate.

Now I value spending time with my wife and children. I have pretty busy schedule. I have few non-work activities that don't include my family. From what I can understand, membership in the order of the arrow comes with the expectation that I'm going to be active. I'm pretty troubled by the concept of leaving my son behind on weekends to go and do OA activities. I don't know if you've run across this before, but I could certainly use some advice.

Well, the order of the arrow can be a bit of a puzzle. Now, it would have been better if, before you were nominated as an adult candidate, somebody had asked if you would be able to accept the nomination and kind of explained what the obligations were going to be. Because if you look at the order of the arrow materials right, adults are nominated- quote- based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the order fulfill its purpose and not for recognition of service, including current or prior positions. Selected adults must be an asset to the order because of demonstrated abilities and must provide a positive example for growth and development of youth members of the lodge.

So your nomination to the order of the arrow should be based on the fact that you'll be a good contributing member. It's not an honor.

Ok, in the same way that it is for a scout, right? It's not about.

Well, you know, you've served scouting for a long time and you're pretty good guys, so we're going to honor you with being a member of the order of the arrow. No, basically it's: hey, here's a scouter who has a proven track record, who can make a contribution to help the youth members of the lodge. That's why we nominate adults to lodge membership.

So adults are nominated to the order of the arrow through the troop committee and that nomination process should be fairly transparent. So I would tell your committee chair that while you appreciate nomination, you can't in all good consciousness accept it at this time and explain.

You know I don't have the time to put into this now, while my son is not involved. When my son becomes involved I'm happy to accept the nomination. Committee can then withdraw your nomination and nominate another adult in your place, if that's possible.

I can't say I've run into this before, because what we try to do before we nominate adults for the order of the arrow, we inform all the eligible adults that they are indeed eligible for nomination as an adult to a membership in the order of the arrow and ask if they'll be able to accept that nomination before we make a final decision, And I think that's a good practice to follow and you won't end up in a situation like the one in this email. Now, although I haven't run into this, I doubt that you're alone. I'm pretty sure plenty of other scouts have found themselves on the horns of this particular dilemma. It's not your fault. The committee really should have asked you before they nominated you and they should certainly understand that you're not able to take this on right now. After I sent that advice, I heard back from this scouter and they said I spoke with the Scoutmaster, who generally wants me to accept the candidacy and become an ordeal member.

His counsel was to act as an example in a positive model and inspire the boys to man up and strive to make the cut next year. I think this entire dilemma might have been avoided if more troops incorporated this plan for the order of the arrow elections and asked adults ahead of time if they would be able to accept the nomination.

And while I'm on the subject, we have a lot of younger scouts and a 10 minute pep talk by two strange OA members and then expecting 11 or 12 year olds to make an intelligent, informed judgment when they get a ballot doesn't seem to be a very realistic idea. We had a room full of deer in the headlights, stairs, shrugs, and the election to me was more a popularity contest than one made on merit.

Well, I got a couple of things to say and reply to that. First of all, a Scoutmaster who says things like man up and make the cut, really, I mean, come on to 11 and 12 year old boys- that's not likely to inspire so much as discourage, because that is a very aggressive way of saying you are not a man and I'm disappointed in you.

I know boys certainly take it that way and so far as you're becoming an ordeal member, to somehow model for them or encourage them to quote: man up and strive to make the cut next year, no, no, I don't go for that, because the way adults are nominated for the order and the way scouts are elected to the order are two totally different things. I've fielded many concerns about all kinds of elections- not just OA elections- being popularity contests, and I'm a little puzzled by that, because every election, at least in some measure, is exactly not a popularity contest, at least every election I've ever participated in, in scouts and out, and we also need to be real about an 11 or 12 year olds ability to make an intelligent, informed judgment.

I mean, it's almost a contradiction in terms, isn't it? They're 11 or 12, and what we may not understand about scouts- even those younger scouts- is that they can have a much better view of who merits their vote than we do. They definitely have a different perspective of it, and the fact that the whole process wants them to make this decision should tell you something. They're going to make their judgment as an 11 or 12 year old, not as an informed, intelligent adult.

I mean, if you remember being a boy- and I have to work at that, but I can still recall some things about it if I try- there were very big parts of our lives when we were much younger that were totally opaque to adults. I can remember plenty of boys who, from an adult standpoint, looked very worthy and deserving. From a boy standpoint, they were kind of mean and nasty when the adults weren't around.

You know what I'm talking about. So I wouldn't say that they weren't thinking when they voted.

I think they were probably thinking in the way an 11 or 12 year old boy would think when they're faced with these kind of decisions, the best we can do, and what we ought to do, is call upon their developing sense: scout oath and law. Get them thinking and talking about it.

What do you understand about making this decision? How does a scout oath and law apply to it? And when we start talking with them about those kind of things, they understand a lot more than we think they did. They often just don't get a chance to tell us because nobody asked them.

So ask them about it. So, like I said, the order of the arrow can be a puzzling if you don't understand the way that it works and how adults are nominated to the order. I don't get particularly distracted by the order of the arrow. It's a great thing for our scouts. I've been happy to serve in different capacities as an adult member of the order of the arrow, but I would say this: scout age boys do not really need an excuse to be competitive with one another or yet another way to form clicks or classify each other. It's pretty much elemental the way they're working to figure out the world to begin with.

Hopefully, their experience in scouting encourages them to grow out of competing with and classifying others and gets them to think about who they are and how they understand the scout oath and law and put it effect into their lives, and that's why I am very careful about placing too much emphasis on things like order, the arrow, elections and helping scouts put things like this into perspective. Hey, if you have a question for me, you can get in touch. It's very easy to do and I'm going to tell you how to do that in just a moment.