Scoutmaster Podcast 218

I am Daniel Desjardins, I'm Brian Bluen And I am a scoutmaster. We threw four, two, six in london Derry, New Hampshire, And I am a cub master with pack three, two, eight, five out of Rockford, Michigan. This edition of the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like us.

And now for you, scoutmaster. Oh, spring is in full bloom around here and the Canadian geese are migrating north, And I see them flying in that v formation that is always so familiar. Here's an interesting Fun fact about this.

Do you know why one side of that v formation is always longer than the other side? It's because there are more geese on that side.

Boy, that's a stretch, isn't it? Anyway, this is podcast number 218. You

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look in the mailbag.

Just got this email from Greg Gotcher, who is the cub master of cub scout pack 372 in Waterford, Wisconsin, and Greg writes in that say: I'm currently working on a wood badge ticket To create a presentation for my cub scout pack on world scouting, And then I would like to get them to start up a pen pal program with another group of cubs somewhere in the world. I'd like to show the similarities and differences between cub programs in different parts of the world. I thought it'd be kind of cool to show them different achievement awards and ranks And maybe even try some of the games that cubs play in different parts of the world. Thanks for all you do for scouting and keep up the good work.

Hey folks, what can we do to help Greg here? I know that a lot of people from different places in the world listen to the podcast and They're involved with cubs, or no people involved with cubs.

So let's help Greg out. Send me an email at Clark at scoutmastercgcom, if you're interested in having a pen pal exchange with Greg's cub scout pack and If you can help him with some resources To, so he can show his cubs some of the similarities and differences between the cub programs and everything like that.

If you're not familiar, in the Boy Scouts of America cub scouts Starts in the first grade here at six or seven years old and then at ten and a half or eleven years old They leave the cub scout pack and they go into a Boy Scout troop. It's pretty similar to what the rest of the world does. But let's help Greg out.

Send me an email, Would you please? John Strohier wrote to tell me that he was on a hike with some of his fellow scouts recently talking about scouting, and He told me that their discussion led to this conclusion: that it's their job to help instill character and Values in the scouts. Problem is is that ears aren't the primary point of entry in scouts, If they work at all. The primary points of entry for those values are their backs, Through osmosis from the weight of packs, through their feet, through miles that they hike, and their eyes, Through watching what Scouters do and their fellow scouts do. John said- I don't think this came directly from you, But it seems to sum up what I've heard you say in the past: Scouts learn best by doing scouting things. If it's not from you, I'd like to hear your take on what can be done to refine this simple statement and improve upon it.

John, Thanks for the thanks for the question. I certainly agree with the thought. I don't remember expressing it exactly in that wise. I What I'm always trying to get scouting into one single sentence. I haven't quite done it yet. I doubt that I ever will, but I'm gonna keep on trying.

It's kind of a hobby of mine. I agree with everything that that says.

I would refine it a little bit by saying it's our job to create opportunities for scouts to discover those ideals that Build character, and our work isn't telling them about these ideals so much as seeing that they get to Experience these ideals and experiences in a sitting-down exercise. It's hoisting a pack and hiking and doing what scouts do. That's my take and refinement on it.

What, how would you answer John? How would you get scouting down into one or two sentences?

Now, Maybe, maybe you've heard one of the ones that various scouting organizations offer is kind of a distillation of What scouting is in a couple of sentences. But let's go for what your own writing of it would be and Go to the forums At scoutmastercgcom. Get there on the website, look at the participate link right at the top of the page, Follow it to the forums. If you're not already registered, get registered And let's.

Let's see if we can get it down into one sentence. I don't think we'll be able to, but it'll be fun trying, won't it?

Speaking of the blog, Have you checked the blog this week? I couldn't help it.

I found that and then I thought that I would include it there for your edification. But over on the blog this week We've had several posts. Early in the week I posted something about Sir Ernest Shackleton's border review.

What if we took Shackleton the explorer, the Arctic Explorer, and We set him in a border review like an Eagle Scout candidate? Check that out and see what. See what you have to say. I was asked to share my favorite camping and hiking locations for a blog at Florida outdoors and I posted my reply to that and invited yours. Got some great replies to it this week. There's a post on the blog called favorite camping and hiking spots and it's also on the forums Which you heard about a little bit earlier.

If you have a favorite camping or hiking spot, Tell us about it. I shared that. Mine was not on a map and you'll have to read exactly what my answer was by going to the blog and checking It out. Enoch hyzee in Green Bar life this week has an excellent post about conquering camp chores before they conquer you, and It's written from a scouts point of view about how to how to deal with those kind of pesky chores that we get into camp and Enoch shares some ways of getting your mind right. Of course you're gonna get your mind right, And I mean right. Thank you, Strother Martin, for helping us out there a little bit.

I got a reminder to remind you from our friend, Jeff Kvistad, to that It's Lyme disease season, where Lyme disease is an issue. We we need to be aware of exactly what it is and how to prevent it and how to deal with ticks and all of that.

So I've got some resources in a post on the blog this week. It's hard to imagine that too many of us are familiar with Lyme disease. It's been around for a long time, But it's always good during this time of year to kind of put ourselves through a little refresher course About it.

So check that out on the blog. And you can find the blog, if you don't know already, at Scoutmaster CG dot com.

So get over there and check it out. You can also join the growing ranks of Scoutmaster CG dot com backers If you've found the things that we offer to be valuable to you. You can return the favor by becoming a backer, and the backer payments go to support all of this work and to keep it freely available to scouts around the world.

And I want to make sure to thank Rob nap and Bill Blunkowski who became backers this past week. It's easy to do. Go to the blog, Follow the support link at the top of the page and you can become a backer too. I would certainly appreciate it.

Well, in the remainder of this week's podcast, I've got a couple of great email questions to answer. I've got one that that got me thinking about the way that we deal with medications and injuries and illnesses in scouts and how the medical forms that we get relates to that, and There's one that that's a really great take on youth leadership. The email that I got was fantastic and I hope I came up with a decent answer for it.

So That's gonna take up the rest of the podcast. So let's get started. Shall we

Email that is folks, and here's an answer to one of your emails. Now this first question comes to me from Hugh McCann, and he's with Boy Scout Troop 113 in Somerset, New Jersey, And Hugh wrote in to say we were asked by a parent if we would give a scout medication, specifically Benadryl, if he was stung by a bee on an upcoming camping trip. We replied we would not give any medication to a scout without Authorization from the parent. If the boy was stung by a bee, we'd call the parent right after we called 911. Several of the parents at our parents meeting were kind of horrified by this answer. We're surprised they would expect any of us to assume the responsibility of administering medication to a scout or any child- Not our own, since we're not licensed health care professionals.

I've told more than one parent I will not accept responsibility for or hold on to their son's medication while we're on outings and That I would try to help the boys remember to take their medications, But I wouldn't promise to make sure that they did. To me It's common sense that an adult would not expect a scouting volunteer to be responsible for their scouts medication. One parent was really put off that I would not be responsible for her son while he was with the troop.

Well, I think if I was a parent and I had heard you say this, I probably would have been rather upset to, maybe not horrified, But I don't think I would be pleased with with that answer. There's a lot of things that kind of complicate this question, But I want to offer this as kind of the simple starting point. In the absence of a scouts parent, Scouters are there in place of parents and we act as any responsible parent would act.

If a parent approached me before a scouting trip and said: you know John's allergic to bee stings. Well, first of all, I would ask about the severity of the allergy and the kinds of reactions He'd had in the past. If they handed me Benadryl and asked me to give it to him if he was stung, I don't think I'd have too much problem with doing that.

If they told me that they had rushed him to the hospital With anaphylactic shock, that would be a different story And one that would be noted on the medical form that we have for him in the first place. And I would want to make sure that we had our bases covered there and that he had an EpiPen or we had instructions Of exactly what to do.

So let's say we went out camping and John got stung, I would do what his parents would do if they were there, because they've asked me to. I'd give him a Benadryl and I'd watch him closely for the next few minutes And I would check him with him over the next several hours. Any sign that he was having trouble breathing or getting sketchy at all, 9-1-1, right.

So, in short, what I would do is I would do my best to do what any Responsible parent would do if they were there with their son. I've got to say I've done this sort of thing with illnesses and injuries over the years too many times to Account with scouts. When a parent signs a medical form, if you go and read the medical form, What they're doing is basically granting permission for adult volunteers to act on their behalf. There's a statement about prescriptions in the guide to safe scouting that does not prohibit or encourage adult volunteers to oversee or manage Medications. It's basically kind of left up to you as an individual and to make sure that you understand applicable local laws. Myself, I choose to be responsible if that's what a scouts parent wants me to do now.

Those of you who've listened to the podcast for a while will be very familiar with this Basic disclaimer. What you're hearing here is the way that I have been trained and what I know of Policy and procedure and legality for where I am.

So Take it all with a grain of salt, please, and don't take my word for it. Check all of this out, run to the resources that are available to you And if you have a difference of opinion with my conclusions, definitely let me know, because it's always useful for us to discuss these Things. Now. I'm reassured that every scout has been examined by an MD in the past year and any chronic Conditions or allergies ought to be listed on that medical form that we all have. I Read medical forms and I consult with parents should any questions of care arise from my reading of them Before we take off on a long trip. I really go over those medical forms carefully.

I want to know exactly what's going on, Because you know it's my responsibility. Is a scout taking medication every day?

If he is, what's it for? And do I understand what happens if he doesn't take the medication?

Is the medication for a chronic condition that I need to be monitoring? You know There's a lot of questions that come up and I want to know all the answers to them. If a parent wanted me to hold on to the medication a scout was taking, I really don't have a problem with that. I'm happy to do it, because I'd rather not have any prescription medications in places where they were accessible to other scouts. Anyway, I figure I will do about as good a job of remembering to have the scout get his medication as Any other parent would do. And yeah, I've seen plenty of parents who forgot all about it or lost the medication when their sons were On a trip with us.

I could tell you a dozen stories of sick or injured scouts I've administered first aid or medications to over the past 30 years, Just as their parents would do if they were there. Then there are the dozens and dozens of scouts who I've checked in with To make sure they were following doctors orders or taking medication Just like their parents would if they were there. I've had scouts show up with a cast on their leg or a cast on their arm. I've talked with the parents about what's appropriate for them to do, what's not appropriate for them to do, and I am Functioning basically like a responsible parent when they're in my care.

Over the past 30 years or so, I've been to the emergency room with a scout. I think my best count is about four times. It's not a lot of fun, but it's what any responsible parent would do if they were there when they're with me. I need to act as a responsible parent when a scouts out camping with me. I regard my responsibility for them to be very similar to what their parents would do when they're there.

So that's the way I act. I've never been sued and I've never even had my actions questioned seriously. I'm not at all concerned with retributions or lawsuits. All I care about is the safety and health of my scouts. Listen, if I get it wrong, I get it wrong, But I will have taken the best course of action based on my training experience, just as any Responsible parent would. I can't just wash my hands of any responsibility at all When it comes to these things and I wouldn't send my son camping with somebody who did that.

Once again, If you read the medical form and all the associated policy statements, They're very closely worded and this leads people to think that there are all kinds of caveats and regulations that can trip them up And they make assumptions about these things and they create their own caveats and regulations and policies in their minds. Read the resources and check them out and see if you arrive at the same conclusion I did. If you don't, let me know, because I would.

I think it's a worthy discussion for us to have. We have the care of children entrusted to us as scouts and they need that care and trust to be reflected in our attitudes and actions.

I think it's a really pretty simple concept. What would any responsible, caring parent do? It's hard to go wrong, If that's the first principle that you base your actions on.

In this next email I was asked to withhold the name and the location of the sender and the message begins: Thanks so much for all your work. It's helpful and often quite bothersome: Helpful for the obvious reason that so many of your Readers and listeners espouse, and bothersome because it challenges me to resist my adult quote leader Unquote mentality, which is difficult for me and, I'm hoping, for many other Scouters.

Well, yeah, We're all in the same boat there and I'm reminded of Something an old preacher once said about their job was: to comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable. But anyway, let's keep going. In an effort to promote the patrol method of boy led scouting, I recently tried to get the scouts and the Scouters involved with the troop to make use of planning checklist for just about everything the troop and patrols need to do: Duty rosters, meeting outlines, menu planning, equipment inspection checklist.

I thought this would be so easy: Just work through the forms or follow the checklist And the boys would be able to conduct the patrol method with litter or no adult supervision, And the adults would be able to step back and watch it happen. Unfortunately, this was a miserable failure. I tried reviewing how to use the forms and to talk up the benefit of using them. Everybody thought that they were a great idea at first, But made nearly no use of them, and we just continue to kind of fly by the seat of our pants.

So we're trudging along the scouting way. Scouters often have to direct scouts not working together. Scouts don't like being told what to do. Scouters are frustrated because the scouts either aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing or don't care to operate as a boy Led troop and they just want to goof off. Don't get me entirely wrong. Things do get accomplished, boys do ultimately get along and advancement does happen, Albeit haphazardly.

I guess what I'd really like to know is your thoughts on the use of what I would like to think of as planning Organizational aids, and that's the forms that I'm talking of. I've seen numerous examples of them online and Talk to other scouters whose units use these types of forms with great success. I do recognize that at best scouting is kind of a clumsy process.

So I don't think the forms would be a cure-all for our problems. I just think they would be smart and maybe force the issue and hopefully start getting into better practices. You I just completely identify with your dilemma here. Um, I tried this.

Okay, I had a binder full of easy to use forms, and and I can recall Getting pretty upset when scouts didn't use them. Somewhere along the way, though, I had this kind of revelation, and I almost laughed myself silly when I thought about what I was doing. I imagined one of my scouts Looking at me with tearful appreciations. He accepted my gift of forms and worksheets. Wow, Clark, Thank you.

All I needed to become a perfect human being and to realize how easy it was to do all this, Were these carefully designed, well thought out pieces of paper. Hallelujah, I am a fully functioning adult.

Now You are the best Scoutmaster in the world.

What you and your colleagues are discovering is that Boy led is exactly that. Boy is doing things by the seat of their pants in a haphazard fashion and goofing off because, lo and behold, they are- Wait for it- boys.

Now I'm not poking fun at you and I don't want to trivialize how frustrating this all can be, But really I mean you got to laugh, right, as you say, Things are happening, advancement is happening, and this means that you're an outstanding success as a Scoutmaster. Are they happening at an adult level of efficacy and efficiency.

Are all the forms being filled out and used? Of course not, and no one would really expect them to. Here's one way to think about this.

Somewhere You probably have some clunky piece of artwork or a blob of clay That your child labored over and presented to you with prod Right? I think every parent has at least one of those objects.

Now do you receive that from them and measure it against the Mona Lisa? And then you go, meh, meh, it's just a scribbly crayon drawing, It's not the Mona Lisa, and you just ball it up and throw it away.

Well, of course not. It becomes this treasured object And it has a place of pride in your office or on your desk, or on your dresser Or on the wall somewhere in the house or on the refrigerator.

We're not measuring that effort against Leonardo da Vinci, right? We're looking at it as something that your child did and presented to you and that's why you treasure it.

So it's the same way with scouts developing leadership skills. The product is kind of lumpy and haphazard and chaotic.

You know, three steps forward, one step back. But every step forward in every accomplishment, No matter how horrible it may look, is something to treasure and to celebrate. You just need to learn to look at it with the right set of eyes and you need to get your mind right about it. Of course you're gonna get your mind right, And I mean right.

There we go. I mean, I got to use that twice in one podcast.

Now you say that you've talked with other scouts Who used these forms and planning aids with- quote- great success, unquote. Well, yeah, I have had, at best over my entire career as a scouter, One or two scouts who ever paid any attention to forms and filling things out and, you know, keeping track of things like that, Unless I was hovering over them. I spent several years Trotting out my perfect system of forms and records and I got to tell you it was really very good, And I would walk my new youth leaders through the process of keeping them up. I would discuss the idea of back planning and how easy everything would be if they just use the forms and the Checklists and the plans that I created for them And they would not appreciatively Turn on their heel and never look at them again. A week would go by. I would acquire about the state of communications and planning.

I would ask to see the forms. And of course they hadn't used the forms.

So I would start all over again and preach about how easy everything would be If they just used the forms and did things according to checklists, and all of that. Once again They would look at me and they would go, Yeah well, that's a great idea, And they would not appreciatively. And we'd stumble forward to the next week only to repeat the whole performance over again.

So, after a lot of trying, I moderated my approach. I showed them the forms and said they could use them if they wanted- and of course They didn't. And three or four years ago, or maybe longer, I threw the binder of forms in the recycling bin because nobody had opened it in five or six years Now. Since then I've had a couple of senior patrol leaders ask me if there was a form or something They could use for troop meeting plans- and they had heard about them, probably from their parents- And I was told: oh yeah, there certainly is. They're very easy to find on the internet And I recommend using them. If that's what you want to do, or you could just make up a form of your own, And if you'd like some help with that, I'd be more than happy to help you.

And you know what? I don't think any of them ever actually came up with a form. They just took notes and kept records the way that made sense to them And I know it helped them. But it was a lot of times something that it took a long time before they understood That writing things down was going to make a lot of sense for them and the guys in my patrol leaders council. They usually have a notepad or something and they scribble this and that on it every once in a while.

And you know they do things haphazardly, they goof off, But yet they do actually get things done. Being youth, that is not easy.

I think it's several orders of magnitude more difficult on adults than it is if we do everything by ourselves. It's kind of like trying to fix a watch while you're wearing boxing gloves. It's frustrating and it's nerve-shatteringly uncertain.

You know what it's like. It's like raising a child right.

So as scouters, we have two major challenges: We need to mentor our scouts through this kind of uncertain, halting, haphazard process sometimes, And we have to keep the other adults in line and on board with the way that things are happening So that they don't spoil things and they don't interfere in that process. It's a lot of work and scouting is different from every other program out there, Especially in this respect, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and your challenges And your questions about scouting So you can get in touch with me and you're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.

Well, thank you once again for listening to this 218th edition of the Scoutmaster podcast. You can keep in touch by reading the blog at scoutmastercgcom-