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Experience, maturity and skill are not prerequisites to leadership; they are the traits produced as we practice leadership.
We often get email or comments from Scoutmasters with a troop of young Scouts wondering how they can be anything like boy led. They look around a bunch of immature 11-year-old boys and don’t see anyone who measures up to their preconceived notion of a leader so the adults take over the leadership and may never let it go.
A lot of Scouting goes off the rails when adults think that they are the only ones with the maturity and experience to lead. To prevent this from happening I challenge you to get rid of all preconceived qualifications for youth leaders. Instead of a perfect troop envision an ideal troop; one that elects their own leaders from the Scouts who are there, not the ones you wish you had.
Other than they are freely elected by their patrol or troop there are no qualifications in Scouting literature for youth leadership positions. You may read guidelines or suggestions but there’s no required age or rank.
Could it be advantageous if a patrol leader was first class rank? Sure. Is it required? No.
Would it be a good thing if the senior patrol leader is mature, experienced and organized? Sure. Is it required? No.
Every troop has at least one patrol leader, and if they have more than one they have a senior patrol leader. Every patrol leader in a Scout troop is elected by the Scouts in his patrol. Every senior patrol leader in a Scout troop is elected by the Scouts in the troop. If you want to develop youth leadership first dismiss your preconceived notions about those two positions, resolve to never worry about, think about or manipulate a patrol or troop election and let the Scouts choose their leaders.
Does this whole idea sort of give you the willies? Good. It means that you are trying to learn something!
If I have a troop of 11-year-old boys, then I do Scouting with 11-year-old boys. If I have a troop of 17-year-old boys, then I do Scouting with 17-year-old boys. This is one of the cool things about Scouting!
Will these troops look alike or do things the same way? No way. Those older boys may be all over the place camping, climbing, backpacking, canoeing, while the younger troop may be having “four hour breakfasts” and almost getting lost on a short afternoon walk!
The important thing is that both troops are doing Scouting.
Experience, maturity and skill are not required.
Experience, maturity and skill are the goal.
When you hire an intern experience is not required, experience is the goal. A baseball player is a baseball player if he hits home runs or not; hitting home runs is the goal but they are not required.
Let’s not make the goals of Scouting into prerequisites for actually doing Scouting!
Clarke
I’m fine with that all that. Some of what I said was said with a smile and and a bit of humor.
I’ve never had a daddy letter. Ever. I’ve had mommy letters. Several. Just saying.
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Warren, you “da man”! Walked right by the food on the table. Now that is a true classic. Do you get letters from the mommies about being indifferent, insensitive and inflexible? Have they ever asked you to go back and locate a pair of sock a Scout lost on the last campout? (She inventoried his socks after each outing). Have you ever opened up a pack that a Scout just couldn’t carry to find that mom packed it. (Four, count’em, four T-shirts for a weekend hike! IN HIS PACK!! Kid hasn’t changed clothes on a campout since he got in Scouting. Sleeps in his clothes Good grief 🙂 )
On a 2 night 16 mile round trip hike a young scout was having a hard time. I could not take it any more and had his patrol look in to his backpack. He had 2 pair of jeans and pajamas. He said his mom packed them. Dad was close by and just shook his head. HIS patrol broke up his things to help him out. A year latert that same scout just camped in December with out dad and packed his own pack. He has grown so much. As a scoutmaster I required all scouts not yet a First Class to have a shakedown prior to the outing. Once they make First Class I never ask them if they are ready. They are a First Class Scout.
As for mommies. Well there is a reason thier troop is small.Seventeen scouts. The SCOUT is responsible in this troop not his parents. Some choose to stay. Some do not agree with a boy being a boy. They move to to another troop. All good. Just go to the troop that works for the scout not mom and dad. No baby sitters here.
Warren
I share the desire for Scouts to function autonomously but I am going to challenge the tone here a bit.
You’ll agree we can certainly help our Scouts become more independent without loosing Scouts, driving them away, or being unpleasant. Their growing and maturing is a process their parents have to go through too. Sometimes it can be more difficult for the parents (both daddies and mommies) to make the transition than it is for the son.
My concern is that sometimes bravado on our part does more harm than good – I do not see losing or excluding Scouts as a mark of success or distinction.
I value what ‘mommies’ do; sometimes it takes a while before they catch on that Scouting can be a real help to them in letting go. Naturally all Scout leaders share this respect even if we find their actions as frustrating as I do on occasion.
Let’s be clear about the distinction between how valuable mothers are to Scouting as opposed to the actions of a few who are still working towards understanding the process. Let’s also reaffirm that Scouting is intended as a positive experience of surmountable challenges – not a trial that excludes the unworthy.
That’s the final word on the subject for now.
Hello all Scouters
I am just starting a new troop, It will be the first troop I will have had the honor of supervising. I agree 100% about letting the boys lead and chose the leaders of there troop. Isn’t it the scouting way?! I’ve had alot of leaders say the adults should run the troop and allow the boys to follow until they learn the way it is. Well I say in a way that sounds good but it isn’t the scouting way, No one is perfect and the mistakes we make, make us better people as will it for the scouts of the troop that make mistakes.
Scout Lead Scout Run
My son has been in scouts for almost four years now. The troop is a true backpacking troop. They have a planned hiking trip every month rain or shine. They have been called “Hardcore”. They dont think a three mile hike is hardcore but hey what the heck. What we have all learned is that once the scouts know the adults are not there to carry gear,food,plan or make decissions for them they step up to the task and grow very quick. Their patrols hike and camp as patrols. We do not share a campsite with the scouts. If a parent wishes to share a tent with his son then he sleeps in the patrol site. The only scout to come into the adult site is the SPL . The farther we adults stand back the more fun the scouts have.
I have seen my son in the Quartermater postion walk out the door without the patrol food for a overnight hike and campout. I looked right at the food on my way out the door and said OK I guess you know what you are doing. He never forgot the food again. But that one bag of peanut M&Ms he had left in his backpack sure was good shared among four scouts. They all lived and learned.
On the front of my troop T-shirt it says “ASK YOUR PATROL LEADER”
Trust your Woodbadge training and never ever do for a scout what a scout can do for himself. “Its BOY SCOUTS”
Warren C
Well said Larry.. BRAVO! Love it when Scouting is done right.
Dude!!! I think that SM Ron is having more fun that the rest of us 🙂
Hi Dan
You said: “What I hear is that then a scout may never be elected because the guys in his patrol like someone else better…”
When did you hear that? Who said that? Why did they say that? Does it matter? Think very carefully about this matter. A lot hinges on it. What happens when a Scout reads (page 38 of the 12th edition) “Your patrol will elect a leader to help the patrol reach its goals.” In “Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training” (34879C 2005) it says on page 34 “Each patrol in a troop elects a patrol leader.”
Patrol leaders are elected by patrols.
” and that there haven’t been any complaints, except occasionally someone with sour grapes.” Hmmmmmmmmmm. How to say this? When everyone in a unit is aiming for the lowest possible result, they will achieve the lowest result and be happy with that result.
This comes back to the troop-patrol relationship that’s been discussed here before.
A troop is not “divided up” into patrols (and it irks me whenever I read this in a troop’s handbook or parent guide). A troop is a collection of patrols which exist independently of each other, and belong to the troop for common resource and governance.
It is much the same way as a county is made up of many cities (except in the case of Jacksonville, Fla.), each of which elects its own mayor, but all the cities elect the county leadership. You’d never think of having the entire county elect mayors at large and then distribute them to the various cities.
After much pushing, it looks like our troop will change to have scouts elect their own patrol leader, like it should be.
I haven’t seen any discussion on how patrol elections should be handled. Should the boys just choose a leader, without interference or oversight, or should the SPL conduct each patrol’s election? Secret ballots?
I took my son to another troop meeting, which we both enjoyed. After thinking it over for a day, he told me he’d rather stay with our current troop and help them do it better.
Hi Dan
Ideally the SPL at the PLC meeting the month before brings up the issue of leadership transition. If a PL has a question, the SPL answers him. At the meeting they decide to have elections the Patrols gather and elect their leaders. A Patrol of 6to 8 Scouts can figure out how to do that on their own. They’ll be fine.
6 to 8 scouts is what all the training and handbooks say. But don’t you advocate fewer, larger patrols? We have 32 scouts right now, probably 2/3 of them come to meetings, and recent campouts have had 12-15 scouts.
I do think, theoretically, 8-10 makes more organizational sense and would result in a better showing at functions but I would rather that the Scouts get to choose their own patrol. If that means one patrol with ten and one patrol with five, so be it, because it’s more important that they get to make the choice themselves.
Hi Dan
A very active group of 6 to 8 is ideal. In Scouting we sometimes tend to talk about the “Ideal”. It doesn’t always happen. Like Clarke says, Patrol size tends to vary. I think that a very active Patrol of 5 guys and another Patrol that officially has 10 members, but most of the time there are only 7 at activties and campouts would work just fine. Maybe it’s the same 7 or maybe it’s a different 7 at each event. It’s boys. Who knows what’s going to happen!?! Now if the 5 man Patrol often has 2 Scouts at events, it might be time to talk to the SPL and ask if that’s been a problem. It’s now in his mind and hopefully he will bring it up at the PLC meeting if it’s a problem.
An “Ideal” Troop to me would be 32 very active Scouts in 4 Patrols of 8 each. If 1 or 2 guys miss an activity, there are still 6 there. Most of the time however, the “Ideal” group would have 32 Scouts at each event.
Now in a Troop of 32 that regularly has 12 to 15 at activities, that may be a problem. You want to try and avoid the business of re-ogranizing the Troop for each event. Patrols should be fairly consistent at events. There may be rare exceptions, but it should not occur regularly.
The first thing to look at is: are the same 12 Scouts coming each time, or is a different group. If you have generally the same 12 – 15 active, then you’ve probably got too many Scouts on your roster. Or you at least need to organize Patrols around them. If it’s a different 15 each time, then I would say that you have a larger problem.
Campouts are where Scouting actually happens. It sounds to me like you actually have a Troop of about 15 Scouts. Those are the guys that the SPL needs to organize and lead. I’m not sure what to tell you about the other guys. You’ll have to look at each Scout individually.
It’s your job to guide the SPL. It’s his job to fix things. Maybe you need to give him permission to clean house on some Scouts that are on rosters but not showing up.
“Every patrol leader in a Scout troop is elected by the Scouts in his patrol. ”
Not always true. In our troop, PLs are elected by the troop at large, then the four with the most votes are made PLs. Most of the time someone has to switch patrols. I’m pushing to do it like you say but haven’t gotten anywhere yet. What I hear is that then a scout may never be elected because the guys in his patrol like someone else better, and that there haven’t been any complaints, except occasionally someone with sour grapes.
I think it’s like Californians voting for Florida’s governor.
If a troop is being run according to the program Scouts elect their own patrol leaders That’s a pretty serious departure from the program, but it is not all that uncommon. Adults are often pretty sure that they know better than the Scouts and they come up with all kinds of ways to game the simple election of leaders in a Scout troop. This one is a new one on me but I have heard of plenty of others;
-We want the older Scouts who need these positions for rank advancement to have first shot.
-We want to be sure that the Scouts select experienced, older Scouts.
-If we don’t control the elections they’ll be a popularity contest (this one is particularly irksome because every election is popularity contest.
-If we don’t control the elections the Scouts will elect someone we don’t like. Sounds unlikely? well I have seen and heard of adults set standards to limit the choices to their pre-approved candidates.
– If we don’t vet candidates how will we know if a Scout understands the commitment he is making? No Scout is going to understand the commitment BECAUSE HE’S A BOY! The process is designed to help him develop some understanding as he goes along.
If they don’t trust the boys in this they don’t trust them in much else and that’s a real shame.
Right on, Clarke. Right on.
Thanks Rick – this is Larry’s article (I edited it but it’s his ideas.)
I am an ASM with responsibility for my troop’s 11YO group. After nearly a year of wondering why my attempts at using the patrol method were falling short, I finally realized I hadn’t relinquished control. So this week, we’re ditching the annual T-2-1 calendar in favor of their setting goals (like backpacking, service projects, et al) and building a program to make those goals happen. (That the skills needed to do it coincide with T-2-1 requirements is a happy accident 😉 I’m very excited about giving them ownership and responsibility for their program, instead of being responsible to “make sure they all get First Class in a year.”
Our boys came up with themes like “You’re Holding the Map Upside Down” (What to do when Lost, Orienteering, Survival Skills), “There’s No Place Like Home” (Winter shelters, Makeshift tents, tent care and maintenance), and “Crash” (Disaster First Aid).
In the middle of winter we have Carribean Island Night, which includes:
Which island am I on? Using the night sky to find north and determining which of three islands you are on.
Semaphore Battleship – Cardboard cutouts of a battlesship on a 5 ft x 5 ft grid and each separated by 50 yards.
Raft building with lashing or tiki hut with lashing
Fire starting without matches
What 12 items out of 30 do we take off our boat so we survive?
Limbo Contest – pre-meeting
Teamwork to reach coconut from top of pole contest or the coconut filling the glass with water relay contest.
Rope rescue of a cardboard drowning man.
Make a radio with very few parts and send a morse code message.
Great ideas! Thank you for sharing. I’m going to pass these on to my guys. Might spark some creative variations as they plan their upcoming meetings and activities.