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I asked Jay to write about his experiences in Scouting because I think it’s important to get to know and understand each other, that young men like Jay, a gay Scout, are not new to Scouting, they have always been there – Clarke
To all my fellow Scouters –
We are all engaged in a conversation about whether or not to keep a policy in place at the national level that keeps gay people from active service in Scouting, as either adults or Scouts.
I want to help you be an informed, active participant in deciding the future of our great organization.
Scouting is, in my belief, the best program for boys. The Boy Scouts of America has an unparalleled record in producing many great, talented leaders. It is my honest opinion that all youth, regardless of race, ethnicity, faith, ability, sexual orientation or other factors beyond their control be welcomed in Scouting.
I want to tell you the story of a hypothetical Scout, one like many of the Scouts you have known.
He’s a Scout in your troop, who has been an active and integral part of your troop since crossing over from Cub Scouts. He has been a Patrol Leader, Troop Guide and an Assistant Senior Patrol Leader.
He is currently a Life Scout at the age of 15 and has begun to work on his Eagle Scout leadership project. The Scoutmaster has come to rely on him and his abilities as a leader in the troop. He exemplifies the Scout Oath and Law.
He has quelled many arguments between the younger scouts and stepped up to assist during skills instruction for the lower ranks.
In your heart of hearts you know he deserves the honor of Eagle Scout.
In school he is doing well, admittedly he is not greatest student of all time but his tenacity and perseverance to learn make him a great student that will go far in life. He is also very active in his church, and attends the weekly youth group with several friends. He also helps out on Sunday during services.
During a Monday night meeting you learn that this Scout is gay. The other Scouts have known for quite some time and don’t seem to be bothered by this fact.
How do you proceed as a leader?
As leaders we need to think thoroughly and carefully about all our Scouts – and even more so when Scouts are in situations like our hypothetical Scout. There are some things that you need to know about life for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans-gendered) teens in America.
Estimates of the total LGBT student population vary from study to study. The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) reports that five to six percent of American students are LGBT. A conservative estimate means there are 2.25 to 2.7 million school-age LGBT youth. [1]
A 2005 survey of school students by the Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network (GLSEN)[2] found that:
- 65% of teens have been verbally or physically harassed or assaulted during the past year because of their perceived or actual appearance, gender, sexual orientation, gender expression, race/ethnicity, disability or religion.
- 33% of teens report that students in their school are frequently harassed because of their perceived or actual sexual orientation.
- 52% of teens frequently hear students make homophobic remarks. (Some studies have shown that LGBT students will hear on average 25 epithets a day at school[3])
- 51% of teens frequently hear students make sexist remarks.
- 69% of teens frequently hear students say, “That’s so gay” or “You’re so gay”; expressions where “gay” is meant to mean something bad or devalued.
- 90% of LGBT teens (vs. 62% of non-LGBT teens) have been verbally or physically harassed or assaulted during the past year because of their perceived or actual appearance, gender, sexual orientation, gender expression, race/ethnicity, disability or religion.
Lesbian, gay and bisexual youth are 4 times more likely, and questioning youth are 3 times more likely, to attempt suicide as their straight peers.
Overall 1 out of 6 students nationwide (grades 9-12) seriously considered suicide in the past year[4].
Scouting ought to be a safe haven. What a world of difference we could make for a Scout who comes out as gay if we open up our doors and arms to have him join in our brotherhood.
As a Scouter I have made a commitment to the Scouts and Scouters in my troop. I have committed to obeying the Scout Oath and Law at all times.
I can think of many reasons why gay Scouts should be welcome in Scouting. I can’t think of any legitimate reasons they should not.
I know personally how important it is to have a welcoming and open atmosphere in Scouting. I am gay and an Eagle Scout. I’ve used some of my experiences in Scouting to describe our hypothetical Scout.
I have been across the country on trips with my troop. I’m a brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow. I’ve served as a Patrol Leader, Troop Guide, Senior Patrol Leader, Junior Assistant Scoutmaster and now Assistant Scoutmaster. I’ve also completed Wood Badge, including my tickets (hello fellow Beaver patrol members!).
Scouting has been an integral part of my life since I joined in 2003 at the age of 13. I want scouting to always be a part of my life. It has given so much to me and I want nothing more than to give back.
I hid that I was gay deeply until I peeled away at the layers I built up over so many years. I was bullied in school for many years for being “different.” I learned that being anything other than normal was unacceptable.
Finally, I left scouting because I felt like I was not welcome; I had a lot of hard feelings over the policy. I felt I could not discuss my life like my friends could. I felt as if the very essence of my being was taboo.
Before I returned to Scouting the Scoutmaster and Charter Representative of my old troop told me they didn’t care if I was gay or not. They knew me for the person I was. They knew I had potential as a leader and wanted my help.
I am a better person for having come out. I am happier. I feel freer. I feel that I am truly living by the Scout Oath and Law by being honest and truthful. I’m also being loyal to my friends and not showing them something that is not myself.
I know first-hand that being gay is immaterial to being a good scout.
I know first-hand that leaders have a crucial role in providing an accepting, safe environment for boys to be who they are.
You may feel apprehensive if and when a Scout does come out as gay. Be free to ask questions and seek out other LGBT people or those who are allies to the LGBT community. There are many religious groups who are open and affirming of LGBT individuals, there are hundreds upon thousands of LGBT civic organizations such as the Trevor Project, Human Rights Campaign, Scouts for Equality and many, many more who are an open and willing source of support.
Yours in Scouting, Now and Always,
Jay – Assistant Scoutmaster, Eagle Scout, Proud gay man
Thank you for having the courage to post this! You are doing a good thing.
Firstly accept my apologies for expressing an opinion on something I am not directly concerned with but as Scouting is an international movement I am interested in the debate. In the uk we don’t exclude anyone on the grounds of their sexuality and I think that is correct for us. Gay, straight, tall, short, black or white what we want as members are just plain good people to act as role models for our young people. I may be bit simplistic in my outlook but sometimes that is best.
I think your open debate is very healthy and I’m sure in the end you will make the right decision for the BSA
Thank you Jules, I think one part of our way forward is hearing from folks in Scouts UK and other organizations where orientation isn’t an issue
Jules, there is no need to apologize. The Scouting movement is a global movement and the decisions and choices of one organization affects the overall image of the larger organization.
I appreciate your support and your input, thank you.
There is a church down the street from me, a small community church that is not part of any national organization. Most of the people who go there are lower middle class folks who were raised in the community. They commonly refer to their church as a “hospital” and openly encourage anyone who is interested to attend their services, regardless of who they are or what they believe. They allot an enormous portion of their budget to what they call “mission outreach”, digging wells, delivering medicine, collecting food, building homes, etc. Some of that is done in the US, some overseas. They dont seem to really care where they have to go to help someone as long as the need is genuine. By most standards, their facility is modest in comparison to the amount of people who attend services there and they freely admit that is intentional because their means are limited. They would rather give it away than spend it on themselves.
A couple years ago, I approached them and asked if they would consider chartering a troop. The lay leadership and the pastor were all very excited. The quickly mentioned that their current budget was fully allotted but they would be happy to give the troop use of the building and cover the minor expense of chartering. When I sat down with the pastor to sign the charter document, he looked at the top bullet under the charter organization column:
“Conduct the Scouting program according to its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the Boy Scouts of America.”
Then he looked at the first bullet under the council column:
“Respect the aims and objectives of the organization and offer the resources of Scouting to help in meeting those objectives.”
That pastor looked me in the eye and without many words, we both understood that the unit would be conducted as a reflection of that church, each mutually supporting the other, neither conflicting with the ideals of the other. This was a poignant moment for me, because this would mark the first time in my Scouting career that I had ever been in a unit chartered to an organization of my own faith.
Folks, that partnership agreement has spawned tens of thousands of successful units over the last century. We, as an organization, have an existing contractual obligation to the thousands upon thousands of charter organizations that have extended a helping hand to us from our inception. In online media, there is no end of people who are willing to tell you how they think “things should be”. But, when you look at where Scouting is today and when you look at who has supported us EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, how can we in any way say they are underserving of our loyalty after all these years?
Jay’s story is touching but, for me, it is tainted by the fact that Jay knowingly lied on his adult application so he could serve as a leader. That may seem abrupt and insensitive but this whole issue is about changing the very idea of what BSA considers to be right and wrong. When Jay signed his name in agreement to “subscribe to the By Laws of the Boy Scouts of America”, he set aside his own personal integrity in order to advance a different agenda. Clarke, that is important no matter where you stand on the issue.
Thanks Alex – The BSA has suggested a way forward that remains loyal to these partners and is in no way dictating any change to them whatsoever (see this post for the full statement issued by the BSA explaining this).
While I can understand the question of integrity involved it’s obvious that the unit Jay is associated with has decided that they will be inclusive, as have many units and councils. I think this is understandable, and we won’t necessarily agree on that. I am sure that those decisions were not taken lightly.
I’d also add that Jay did not lie. If you’ll review the Adult Application form you’ll see there is no statement concerning sexual orientation. The BSA does not proactively inquire about the sexual orientation of volunteers.
Clarke – I can’t believe we can’t find common ground on the integrity issue. Deeply saddened by that.
While you can raise an ethical challenge to anyone who would willfully ignore a policy like this I wouldn’t conclude that they lack integrity.
Sometimes people, often motivated by the principles they learned as Scouts, decide that the only right thing to do is to defy something they feel is patently unfair or unethical – I believe that requires integrity too.
Alex,
I respect that you are a leader and have been able to have your troop and church work together in harmony. I know the great importance of having a higher power be at the center of growth in a scout’s career. This is why it is my opinion that all Scouting Units should reflect the beliefs and philosophy of their chartering partner. They both have a common goal, to raise great leaders, and they need to work hand in hand for that to work best.
As for the last part of your statement, I do not have an alternate agenda in Scouting. I have one agenda, the promotion of the Scout Oath and Law. I encourage Scouts to think about their words and actions and if they follow the Scout Oath and Law. I have not set aside my integrity to be a part of Scouting. I’ve strengthened my integrity by being truthful to my fellow scouters. I would not be a part of an organization in which I had to set aside my own integrity to be a part of.
Thank you for continuing the dialogue Clarke. Jay is an excellent example of why this policy must change. We can’t continue to kick out these kinds of Scouts/Scout Leaders.
While I can accept that we have gay scouts and leaders in our ranks right now, I cannot accept that we are being forced as a charter organization to defend ourselves against openly gay scouts and leaders wanting to join. Before, we always had BSA at our back. Now, our small church of 30 members is being forced to knuckle under, against our ethics, and accept these people. Or kick scouting out. That is not fair to the charter organization, it is not fair to the unit, and it is not fair to the scouts and leaders of that unit. BSA is built on moral standards. It is about the only youth-oriented organization that still has moral standards. If this is opened, scouting as we know it is dead.
Thanks for your thoughts Roy – I think that you’ll find that your concerns are unfounded when you read what the BSA released in it’s statement of Monday, Jan. 28, 2013
“The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs.”
read more here
In fairness, it should be pointed out that while the proposed change will not “require” a charter organization to change it’s standards per se, it will remove the BSA’s support of their position.
Legally, while Dale v BSA is still the law of the land, it will no longer necessarily be applicable to individual units or charter orgs since they are not “the BSA”. There is a very good likelihood that individual units or charter organizations will find themselves in lawsuits over membership without the benefit of BSA support.
More importantly, however, Roy’s point illustrates the frustration that occurs when value systems are no longer shared by partners within an organization. Roy’s church might never get sued, but the idea that his church’s values are no longer BSA values is just as painful.
I think you are wrong. The policy change is the addition of an option for chartered partners to admit people regardless of sexual orientation. I don’t see how this changes the existing option or exposes chartered organizations to any increased threat of litigation. I have yet to hear of a lawsuit against a chartered partner or the BSA over this policy since the Dale Decision.
Clarke, While I agree with you that this suggested policy change may be the best way to split the baby, I can also sympathize with Roy’s point. In the past, there was a strength in the unity of the national organization. Under the currently proposed policy change, we will have thousands of individual, much smaller units, each making their own decision. I’m not sure if this will create more pressure on these organizations or not.
Religious organizations have a strong history or teaching and standing for their standards; a code of conduct if you will, that fits with their belief system. It may not be any harder for a chartering organization to say that they prefer to not have gay scouts than it would for them to say that they would prefer to not hire a gay. Regardless, the strength in unity will be lost.
Regardless of the outcome, for me I believe we are commanded to love one and other and will do so.
As I have said many times I don’t see that there’s going to be any pressure exerted on the sponsors that choose to maintain the policy that they are not already experiencing.
As for the question of unity, we are not united around this issue now, otherwise we wouldn’t be discussing it. Thus far I think that there is a reasonable amount of consensus that the proposed change is workable.
As you reflect, Dave, we can get along – a little empathy and understanding goes a long way!
The problem with this line of argument is that it easily cuts both ways. The chartering organization of my Scout troop growing up, and the same church I was raised in, raised me to believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. We were taught to respect the inherent worth and dignity of every person, and to be cautious of judging lest not we be judged. In essence, we were forced to “knuckle under” for decades simply because we held a minority view at the time.
What makes Scouting stand apart from that problem, and why the proposed solution is a fair and equitable one, is that Scouting is not an organization that belongs to any one Christian denomination, or to any one religion for that matter. It brings together people who share so many other important values. Those values are the values of the Scout Law, broadly defined, and not restricted by the beliefs of any one chartering organization.
Thank you Chris,
You hit a major part of why I think we need to change this policy. The 12th point of the Scout Law states to be reverent towards your God and to be respectful to the beliefs of others. This was in fact one of my very first lessons as a scout. My scoutmaster at the time held a scout’s own service in which he explained that all religions have one thing in common with the Scout Oath and Law and that is the spirit of goodwill.
Bravo Jay!
Thank you for having the courage to stand up and speak out.