Follow
At our council camporee in December I walked around the entire camp and saw only two troops that had identifiable patrols. Most troops were set up as one unit, with all the tents lined up and no discernible internal division into patrols.
Because our site was so small, our tents were all jumbled up and crammed into the site. Only our senior patrol leader and his patrol leaders really knew where the individual patrol boundaries began and ended. This wasn’t the optimal setup for patrols functioning well and but that’s not really what the campsite inspectors were looking for anyway.
Why don’t we value and emphasize patrols as much as our founder indicated we should?
The Patrol System is the one essential feature in which Scout training differs from that of all other organizations, and where the System is properly applied, it is absolutely bound to bring success. It cannot help itself!
The formation of the boys into Patrols of from six to eight and training them as separate units each under its own responsible leader is the key to a good Troop.
The Patrol is the unit of Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty.Baden-Powell
What has happened to the patrol?
While we may talk a good game about the patrol method many adult leaders simply don’t understand or trust it. As a result our Scouts don’t really associate their identity with a patrol but with a troop. We haven’t trained them to think of themselves as a patrol member first.
The issue of Patrol formation and organization is a constant topic amongst adult Scout leaders because they think it is their responsibility to meddle with the patrols in their troop. They want to assign Scouts to patrols and manipulate when and how patrols are formed and reorganized. This kind of management drains the life out of patrols to the point that they are merely a way to organize larger groups of Scouts instead of being the one essential feature at the heart of the movement.
Ok, (now I’ve set things off with a blast) how come we are called “leaders” and and Scout”masters”? Aren’t we supposed to be making these sorts of decisions, aren’t we supposed to “lead”?
Well, yes and no.
To understand this you need to understand Larry Philosophy 101 on adult leadership in Scouting;
Don’t; don’t do it. Don’t ‘lead’!
Are you still with me? I am still talking about patrols but the way we look at things as adults is very important to this. Years of experience have taught me that the Scouting model of adult leadership is hard for many of us to understand. because the common leadership models we know well are diametrically opposed to the model of Scouting leadership.
Scouting organization charts normally have the Scoutmaster and the committee at the top with their leadership filtering down to the Scout. We look at that and think that everything funnels down from the top; instruction, authority, responsibility, discipline, character development, etc.
I made a chart with the Patrol Leader at the top to reflect that he is the most important person in the troop. Everyone else (SPL, SM, Committee, Council, BSA) is supporting him as he delivers the program to his Scouts. (Some of the district leaders used to shudder when I used this chart!)
Top down leadership models used in the military, corporations, government agencies and (perhaps most importantly) the student/teacher model our Scouts experience in school are fundamentally different than Scouting leadership.
One model that particularly gets in our way is parenting; specifically that sort of over-involvement I call ‘mommying’. I’ve probably stepped on on a few toes with that but let me explain – mothers are a very good thing – a very necessary in a young mans life – but they need to start letting go in many ways when he’s 10 or 11 years old so he can grow up.
Once we better understand the adult leadership role in Scouting it informs the central role of patrols, the choices that form them and the way patrols work.
Scouting is a nation-wide organization of patrols arranged into troops. Patrols are more important than troops – troops are just a handy way for patrols to share resources.
1. Scouts register with the BSA.
2. These Scouts form patrols select their own leaders and plan their own activities.
3. These patrols associate themselves with a troop chartered to a local community organization.
Patrols are the organizing principle, the basic unit, the one essential feature at the heart of Scouting. We need to understand them, how they are formed and how we relate to them to understand Scouting.
Scouts create their own Patrols. They form their Patrols as they would a neighborhood play group or sandlot ball team. Like these informal groups patrols are formed without outside interference. Patrols are not formed by adult leaders, or youth leaders. Scouts are given clear instruction (usually by an older Scout ), based on Scouting literature (Boy Scout Handbook, Patrol Leaders Handbook, etc) in Patrol organization and function.
Does the Scouting literature specify a mandatory method for creating Patrols? No.
Should adults leaders choose who is in a particular patrol? No.
Should troop level youth leaders choose who is in a particular patrol? No.
What is the role of the adult leader in patrol organization?
Insuring Scouts (particularly the older ones) have been properly trained and informed about the Scouting program, . Adult leaders most commonly work directly with the older Scouts within a troop so they can properly instruct younger Scouts. Older Scouts may attain this knowledge in classroom sessions, mentoring/coaching interactions or by reading the literature produced by the BSA.
Once a patrol is created members of the patrol elect a patrol leader. The patrol leader appoints other leaders as required. Usually these are an assistant patrol leader, a scribe and a quartermaster.
How is a newly registered Scout placed into a patrol?
He selects a patrol in the troop that he wishes to join.
Patrol formation and organization is the least risky element of troop program to completely give over to the Scouts, and yet it is often the most contentious subject amongst adults.
Understanding all this I’m ok with whatever Scouts come up with. I’m ok with a troop of 19 Scouts having three patrols of 3 Scouts, 5 Scouts and 11 Scouts. When Scouts are trained and knowledgeable they usually realize that something like a 3 man Patrol is not very functional. When they realize this they will do something about it without a Scoutmaster to telling them.
In my experience when handled correctly by skilled, trained leaders patrols within a troop will be fairly permanent. Once Scouts are fully trained and skilled in the Scouting program and understand how patrols function, they get on board. Once they understand their leadership role as a First Class Scout, they begin to exercise that role within the patrol. When Scouts understand the program and identify themselves mainly within a patrol all the other issues with “patrol organization” mostly go away.
When Scouts join an existing, viable patrol they automatically begin training him. They take him camping, teach him skills and he advances. It all works very naturally!
The Scoutmaster who hopes for success must not only study what is written about the Patrol System and its methods, but must put into practice the suggestions he reads. It is the doing of things that is so important, and only by constant trial can experience be gained by his Patrol Leaders and Scouts. The more he gives them to do, the more will they respond, the more strength and character will they achieve.
Baden-Powell
Thanks!
Hi Chris
So you actually have 9 Scouts and you are planning on picking up 6 more, to about 15. In that situation, I would encourage my leaders to have two Patrols, the exisiting one and another one. Let the Scouts (including the new Webelos Scouts) pick their Patrols and then they elect their Patrol Leaders (who hopefully will each be one of your exisiting, trained, First Class Scouts). Then encouraget them to go and find at least 3 or 4 more Scouts to fill out each patrol. With 19 Scouts you get 1 SPL and 9 Scouts in each Patrol.
Assuming your SPL is one of the 9 existing Scouts, that leaves 4 older Scouts in each Patrol. If they decide to split up evenly. 4 older Scouts and 3 new Webelos in each Patrol would be ideal. Now it’s not up to you to direct this to happen. Hopefully you can “train” those 9 exisiting Scouts to adopt a plan similar to this. This gives everyone plenty of opportunities to be elected or appointed to a leadership position.
In about a year or a year and a half the new Webelos Scouts will be ready to begin taking on the PL position. In the mean time, in about a year, you hopefully will pick up another 6 to 8 new Scouts. At that point, your guys are trained and experienced and you and the other adult leaders will pay little to no attention to how they decide to organize. You guys will be busy recruiting and training a couple of the new Webelos dads to help out with camping and helping out with a growing Troop.
Ignore the older, inactive Scouts. If they want to show up and work in a Patrol, fine. Otherwise, just ignore them. Do not recharter them if they don’t show up and don’t pay. Have the SPL appoint them as Instructors and then dog them to get busy and help out. If they don’t help and just want to hang around, then you get involved.
Hi Bob
As Clarke says, you do not want to solve the problem for them. However, whilst training your SPL, you might want to make one or two suggestions. Then back off.
I don’t introduce the Scout Leadership to the Troop Guide position. I have encouraged them to use the Instructor position. This is one of the positions that I take a special interest in. The Instructors are given very specific instructions about their duties. It is their duty to instruct and train advanced skills. They teach the Troop leadership (SPL, PLs, Quartermaster, and Scribe) what their jobs are about and how to do them. They also sometimes teach Tenderfoot to First Class skill sessions like knife and axe yard for Tot’n Chip and first aid reviews for First Aid Merit Badge. I also almost require them (very strongly encourage them) to become involved in our pack’s and our district’s Webelos Woods. I also encourage them to help out with Cub Day Camp, but that hasn’t happend too much recently 🙁
I have never told my PLs and SPL that they can’t have a new Scout Patrol and Troop Guides. I just never train to that model at TLT or SM conferences or PLC instruction. If the PLs and the SPL came to me and said that they have been reading the literature and they have decided they want the new Webelos in a New Scout Patrol and they want the SPL to appoint a Patrol Guide, then I would say fine, go for it. My Patrol Leaders know that it’s their job to Lead, Train and Inspire the new Webelos Scouts in their Patrol to attain First Class Rank. They know that’s what they are supposed to be doing. They know they can’t fully do their jobs without some new Scouts coming into their Patrols.
You also have too many Patrols. A Troop of 26 should probably have 3 or 4 Patrols. Help your 13 year old leaders understand this. If they are the ones running for PL and SPL that’s great. Once they get elected, train them and then put them in charge. Hopefully, you can mentor them in their new positions to get your Patrols organized into good, functional units. Once your PLs are really in charge, you are on your way.
Your “vocal committee members” may require some training and instruction from you. There are a lot of things in the book. That does not mean that it is required. Your Troop organization should reflect you and the Patrol Leaders goals and NOT the committee’s. The committee is there to support the Patrol Leaders.
I am Scoutmaster of a small to mid sized troop – 16 boys – 9 active – an SPL and an ASPL, one patrol and one Patrol Leader. We’re about to receive 6 Webelos crossing over, early March. We recently had a downsizing when another troop formed nearby and 9 Scouts moved to the new troop. This means we’ve been doing a lot of growing in the area of relationships, scouts getting to know scouts that were not in their patrol. We have an NYLT SPL. We have several 16 and 17 year olds who are mostly the inactive ones.
I’m thinking that the PL and his assistant might want to think about what to do about patrols when the Webelos crossover. We’re also about to have a PL election for a term running March 1 to Sept. 1. Any thoughts anyone?
Thanks.
Larry or Clarke,
If you don’t use New Scout Patrols do your SPLs assign youth to the Troop Guide position? If so what do they do?
I am currently an ASM in a troop that is growing in size, with an age gap; we have 3 boys who will age out this year and the next oldest is 14. Unfortunately the group of 13-year olds (3 of them) is more active. So we are looking at a troop of 26 boys and the real leaders are 13, we also have the potential to get 11 more early next year. We have patrols, 5 of them (the 3 older boys, the 8 new boys in a New Scout Patrol, and the rest in 3 of 5). I would really like to get the 12 and 13 year olds to reform into 2 patrols but I don’t want to force it on them.
I like using the New Scout Patrol as long as they will stay together to give former PLs a chance to help Lead, Train and Inspire new scouts directly. Additionally one of our more vocal committee members says that the New Scout Patrol is in the book, therefore we will have one in the troop, not sure I can circumvent that one at this time.
Your thoughts?
Nobody assigns Scouts to a patrol they choose freely. If you are starting from scratch you may want to show the senior patrol leader something like the patrol choice chart.
No matter what the ages or distribution of experience let them make their own patrols, elect their patrol leaders and take it from there.
Thank you Frank. That’s a wonderfully succinct summary. I particularly like where you added “and figure things out” to “lead” and “take responsibility”. Excellent point.
Larry,
Great article! It should be incorporated as part of basic training for not only Scoutmasters but all adults involved in Boy Scouts.
The important thing to remember – and this has been said again and again – is that the objective is not to go camping, or plan meals, or have meetings. The objective is the process of Scouting. The process by which boys learn to lead, take responsibility, and figure things out. Scouting uses patrols to teach these life skills. If adults are meddling with the process in the name of efficiency, economy or organization, the objective will not be realized. Once you understand what we are really all about, the rest is easy to visualize.
Hi Allan
That last paragraph is Scouting. Except for the part about “I think that I may assign”. Don’t do that. Have the trained Scouts bring a Scout along with them. You don’t ever want to do anything realted to “assigning”. That’s what we are about. Training leaders to train other Scouts.
I’m not fond of one guy buying for the whole Patrol. I personally think (IMHO) that Patrols should go shopping together whenever possible. That’s what Patrols do, they do things together. Not because it’s efficient. Not because that’s how adults think it should be. That’s just what they do. Now as in most every case, exceptions happen.
If a Scout is working on one of the Second Class or First Class cooking requirements and the PL wants to go to the store with just the one Scout working on the requirement, then that might be ok to do occasionally. But generally, they should work together.
I have 7 scouts in my troop. I have 4 boys who have just joined 3 months ago, and are 12 or 13.
In order to train them to shop for their patrol, I set aside a troop meeting and we all went to the grocery store. I gave each boy a grocery list similar to a real camp out grocery list, and had them find the items and mark them off. We had a little discussion about what they found when we returned to the meeting place.
They are taking their turn buying the food for the patrol. I have not done it before, but I showed up when the first new scout went shopping. I let him and his mom drive the grocery cart thru the store while I looked at magazines. When it came time to check out, I looked over grocery list, examined the contents of the cart, asked why he chose this or that, asked if he made similar decisions for himself, asked him if he thought he needed this item or that. I found he did very well. He bought almost exactly the right amounts, and came in under budget. I did the same for the next new scout. I figure that if they do it once under some supervision, they will be able to do it from now on by themselves. I figure that that is how i learn stuff, and aside from age, I am not much different from them in doing new things. I did not override the boys decisions at all. If a bad one is made, they can chalk it up to experience.
I think I may assign these current new scouts to go with the next batch when it is time for the next new scout to buy for the first time. That way we get scouts training scouts in this very essential and common patrol activity. I am now telling these current new scouts to watch what I do because they will have to do it from now on.
Hi Dan
Yes, it is certainly a process. Going from 12 new Scouts to The Ideal Troop is an uphill climb.
1. You will be involved. It’s inevitable. Just make sure that your goal is to give them everything they can possibly handle, then add just a little more.
2. Start off from day one with the main assumptions of Scouting in place, even though you know some of it may not work perfectly the first time. Just do it.
3. Questions for the PL who likes to cook: Hi PL leader. I noticed that your Patrol has had some pretty good meals lately. So how are your guys doing with that Second Class Requirement 3G?
Your guys need to have a very good understanding of what “demonstrate” and “plan and cook” mean in the requirements. It doesn’t mean stand by and watch! At the next TLT have your cooking PL “teach” a cooking skill. When he spends all of his time showing and not much time watching the learner practice, have a discussion about teaching. Use EDGE.
Hi Joe
New Scouts join existing patrols. How you facilitate that is up to you. They can visit each Patrol for a meeting, or just observe during one meeting or some other way. They pick. The Patrols can recruit them if they want to. It’s up to them. They pick.
I have found that “new Scout Patrols” are not as “together” as some people imply. Sure they’ve usually been together for a while but they are heading into the years when the elementary relationships will disintegrate and many new relationships will form. Let’s say that your Troop has the GungHo Patrol and the RowdyPatrol and the QuietPatrol. Let’s say that you are getting 6 to 8 new Webelos. I’m willing to bet that Webelos Patrol will divide up fairly evenly along the same lines as the Patrols in the Troop. Just my observation.
What happens if a Scout does not choose wisely? When he figures it out, he just switches to the other Patrol. Does he need to ask you? No. Does he need to ask his SPL? No. He tells the PLs and moves. It’s their business, not yours. Your job is to train the PL to lead his Patrol in the Scouting program. It is not your job to organize Patrols.
If a new Webelos Den comes in and they insist on sticking together as one Patrol, then OK, whatever. I’ve never seen that happen. But it’s your job as SM to make sure that it’s not the old Webelos Den Leader or some other adult that’s pushing that. Webelos Leaders and Webelos parents should be nowhere around when the Scouts are choosing patrols.
Thnaks Larry, for the new way (at least for me) in to forming patrols. I have always put scouts in patrols, I tried to keep friends together and keep some friends apart for troublemaking reasons. I also had a rule to keep brothers in differnt patrols but I have been thinking that rule is not right, some brothers get along great while others fight like cat and dogs. Now the one question that I have in your way of forming patrols is where do the newly crossed over scouts get put in this mix? Should you let them form thier own patrol or have them mixed in the other scouts? Thanks you for the though provoking article.
Larry,
What about when you’re essentially ‘starting from scratch’ with a bunch of boys that don’t understand leadership and don’t seem to know the difference? We provide training, but that’s a few hours on one day. Did they even listen? Two weeks after TLT (with a discussion of servant leadership, etc.) two of our patrols made duty rosters for a campout. Of six boys in a patrol, the PL and his buddy cook all four meals, and junior scouts do KP. The PL likes to cook, and doesn’t want someone messing up his food.
My take on this is the following:
– the patrol leaders were elected by the troop at large
– the patrol members were assigned by adult leadership
– we have no ‘new scout’ patrol–new scouts get dispersed among the patrols
– we form patrols for campouts because only 3 or 4 scouts from each patrol go camping
– the patrols have no spirit, no flag, no competitions
Thanks Larry and to all—there is a lot to discuss at the next PLC!
Hi Doug
Too many patrols. 32 Scouts, no more than 4 Patrols. You could probably go with 3 active Patrols. Of course, you want to try and get them to come to that conclusion. 30 Scouts minus the SPL is 29. If at least two guys are not very active, now you’re down to 27, which would be 9 per Patrol.
When Patrols are re-organizing, it’s probably best to start out with 9 or 10 in each one. That way, you usually end up with 6 to 8 active. YMMV.
I would NEVER buy as a Troop. Patrols go shopping together. They make a menu, go shopping, and prepare all meals. Hopefully, if they show up at the store on Thursday evening with only 3 Scouts, they will recognize the issue, and then modify their menu.
“all seems to be more than 3 boys would use”. Who says? The adult leaders in the Troop? Why would they say that? Why would the adult leaders even know what the Scouts bring for meals or if they bring too much or too little? I never know. They take care of it. I only know if a meal hasn’t been so successful when they show up around the adult camping area, perched like hungry vultures, waiting to see if we have some leftovers 🙂
Good questions too. I will use them! We have about 30 Scouts in the troop-5 patrols. Problem is with like 3 in a patrol going on a campout and they shop and cook. Say for lunch they are going to have sub sandwiches. buying a whole loaf of bread, pack of cheese, head of lettuce, etc all seems to be more than 3 boys would use. Would you shop as “a troop” and divide the food for the patrols to cook? Economy
Hi Doug
And I’ll say this. Make it your goal to make your leadership truly successful by allowing them to lead. Make a New Year’s resolution:
I will not suggest.
I will not get directly involved.
I will not direct.
I resolve to show up at the next campout with the Patrols organized however they are organized and then sit back and watch all weekend. I will not interfere with one man Patrols and I will not interfere with 15 man patrols. I WILL SIT AND OBSERVE!
Once you have done that, find a suitable time (Sunday morning or the next meeting) and ping each Patrol Leader with a couple of questions (Clarke, chime in here because you are a much better question asker than me!).
Hi Johnny PL!
How many Tenderfoot through First Class Skills did your patrol complete this past weekend?
Did everyone enjoy [whatever meal you want to ask about]?
Ask specific questions about stuff that you observed.
Then maybe ask one or two open-ended, general questions.
How did your Patrol do overall?
How are the guys attitudes?
Just a few questions. Do not talk. Just listen. Do not suggest. Quickly move on and when convenient, talk to the next PL.
Whenever their questions get close to the actual problem, then say something like, “I agree, that sounds like something you PLs could work on at the PLC meeting next week.” Or something like that.
At the opening of the PLC meeting, sit down with the PLs and tell them that when you were asking some questions, you observed that perhaps the Patrols are having some problems. Hand out PL Handbooks or have them turn to the Patrol page in their BS Handbook and have them read what’s there. Then tell them they might want to talk about the issues that they brough up and come up with some solutions. Then LEAVE. Walk away. Walk ALL the way away. Do NOT listen. Observe across a large room, but make it obvious that they are on their own here.
It’s ok if you prep the SPL a little bit so he has some time on his agenda for this discussion, but explain to him that it’s not his problem to solve. He can answer questions about his interpretation of what the Patrols in the Troop look like, but he isn’t to solve this by some sort of edict.
Whenever you talk about this, do not talk about it to the Scouts as if it’s a Troop issue. Do not say things like “This Troop has a problem.” Try to say things like, “Hey guys, I was reading this [book/website/blog/etc] and I saw that Baden-Powell said this…” “Hey guys, the Boy Scout program has some good information about how Troops and Patrols should operate here…” Try to always focus on the program as it’s found in the literature. Train them to study the guidance provided by an organization.
If you are good at this, whenever possible, tell stories/fables/parables.
In the early days of Scouting, a patrol was formed when a boy got a hold of a copy of “Scouting for Boys”. He gathered together some guys and formed a Patrol. No adults. No SPLs. No committees. Just formed a Patrol and started doing Scouting.
I think those are very good questions Larry – I can’t add much to them!
Our troop used to do this, and it played havoc with our patrol system. Patrol identity disappeared and we became just members of a troop. Today, I would have the patrols camp near and cook if only two show up. If only one shows up, he would act like a patrol, but we would find other options.
We are now a troop of 6 to 8 scouts (depending on whether the sports season is on), and average 4 to 6 on camp outs. Someone has suggested we divide the troop into two patrols with an SPL, one patrol of 2 and one patrol of 3. I have not done this because I foresee this kind of thing happening every single camping trip. So right now I am using the patrol method with one patrol. When I get enough scouts to field two patrols, I will do that.
How many Scouts in your Troop?
How many Patrols in your Troop?
If you have a large number of Scouts from a Patrol, that do not regularly camp with their Patrol, then you’ve got a real issue. You have a “patrol” that’s not really a Patrol.
Starting with your Patrol Leaders and perhaps some of the other the senior Scouts, ask them what they think the answer is. If they don’t understand Patrols in the first place, because they are used to just mushing everything up all the time, then explain to them where the Troop should be headed, if it’s going to be a Scout Troop. Then listen to their discussion of the options. Do not make suggestions.
Are our Patrols too small in the first place?
Why are a lot of your fellow Scouts not camping every month?
How do we create viable Patrols?
Do we need more training?
Are the Scouts having a problem with this or is it an adult issue?
How are our Patrol Leaders doing? Are they Training? Are they Leading? Or is the SPL doing all of the leading? Hmmmmmmm…
You have identified the problem. Now seek to subtly impress on the Patrol Leaders that it’s really a problem.
Do not be tempted to solve the problem yourself. Leave it alone. Solve it by Leading, Training, and Inspiring them to solve it. Anything you become directly involved in just undoes the good that you are trying to accomplish. Do not make suggestions. Refer them to their leadership materials.
Listen carefully here! They WILL come up with the same good ideas that you have. Yes they WILL. It will be a frustrating, and tortured route they follow to get there, but they WILL come up with the same solutions that you come up with. And maybe even some creative solutions that you wouldn’t come up with.
Do not solve this problem in the way that you have in the past and do not let your SPL solve it the way that you have in the past. Put the Patrol Leaders in charge of their Patrols. Let them solve it.
A problem we have encountered at several/most of our campouts is there may be 15 Scouts going from the troop we may only have 1 or two from one patrol and maybe 4 from another and 3 each from 2 other patrols. It is hard form one or two Scouts to properly and economically shop and cook for that few of Scouts, so Scouts are put together in a single patrol. Any other suggestions?