Scoutmaster Podcast 90

And now the old Scoutmaster. So this summer at Scout Camp, what a wonderful time we had.

I was talking with the aquatics director and you know we were just talking, and he said, yeah, he was a little aggravated because he had to stop one of the scouts from peeing in the pool that morning. I know it's kind of unpleasant, but you know it does happen.

And I said: you know how do you do that? I mean, I said you know, I guess probably a lot of boys end up doing that, Don't they? He says yeah, but not when they're standing on the diving board. Hey, this is podcast number 90.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Hey, let's take a look and see what came through the wires this week. First of all, Anne Voyageur. Anne Voyageur left a comment over on iTunes Says about the podcast: a wealth of knowledge on all matters of scouting. I've been inspired, learned, laughed and enjoyed every minute of these podcasts. Please keep them coming. They're great.

Well, thank you, Anne Voyageur. I do appreciate the vote of confidence there. I also heard from Tom Brewer and he is up in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, where he's a beaver scout leader in the third Orleans beaver colony and the third Orleans scout group And he just got in touch to tell me the story that you heard just before during the opening.

So if you liked it, it goes to Tom's credit. If you didn't, you know I'll get in touch with Tom and tell him, And he wrote to thank me for the podcast and says that he always enjoys them.

So this morning I'm putting together things for the podcast, getting ready to do my recording, And I get an email question and I think the email question that I got is important enough that we need to spend some real time talking about it, So it's going to take up the remainder of the podcast. I'm working on a couple of interviews and some more information about the new guide to advancement and the new Eagle Project workbook, because I think these also are tremendously important things. I had a couple of posts about realistic expectations for scouts and some things that are new in the Advancement Guide, and we're going to spend more time talking about those. But we're going to use this podcast to address this email question first and that'll be coming up in just a second. As a matter of fact, it takes up the remainder of the podcast.

So let's get started, shall we? Hi, I'm Kevin Callan and I'm listening to the Scoutmaster podcast. Beautiful, beautiful. Write me a letter, send it my name Email. That is folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. This week I heard from John Sloan via email. John's a Scoutmaster and he had this question to ask. He says my troop had a camp out this past weekend. I had adults camp where we could hear the scouts if they were loud, but could not see anything other than lantern and firelight. I loved the idea of us being separated from them to let them do their own thing, and it worked out very well.

The boys loved it and they had a great time. They ended up way behind schedule, but they achieved most of what they set out to do. The setup was quite different from what they've been used to. I've only been Scoutmaster since April and this was the first time I was really able to get us adults completely away from them. My father is the troop committee chairman and thinks I need to be in camp with the boys at all times. He's supportive of my push for a true boy led troop, but he doesn't really trust them to be on their own on camp outs.

When I was discussing this with my wife. She suggested that my dad did have a point.

How am I supposed to ensure their safety if I'm not there with them? She is concerned because something very bad can happen very quickly. She's right, it can. I didn't have a great answer for her. All I really have is that I trust them to act like scouts and be safe. Accidents can happen whether I'm watching them happen or not, But I'm not sure that any of that would fly with a parent when their son is in the hospital getting stitches.

And they found out I was drinking coffee at another campsite when the accident occurred. So, long story short, how do you ensure that boys are safe on a camp out when you're not in their campsite with them? John, that is a fantastic question and I really appreciate you getting in touch and I hope that I'll be able to answer it thoroughly for you.

How do you do what I suggest, And that is to let the boys camp from a distance from the adults so that they can do their thing and maintain safety. So let's discuss exactly how this should happen.

Well, John, I've got to tell you your father is right and your wife is right. They're smart people, but you already knew that, And you are right.

Everything that you wrote is perfectly valid and we need to reconcile them all together. The short answer is: we understand and assess the risks of the particular activity that we are undertaking And then we take all prudent measures to mitigate those risks.

We're never going to eliminate them, but we're going to take every prudent measure that we can to mitigate them. You know, scouts are boys and boys are infamously bad assessors of risk. They can be careless and inattentive and naive and they may disregard safety measures.

The ever-present question is: how do we manage this risk appropriately while we still allow scouts the latitude to be scouts? The BSA has given us some excellent tools to do this, And the best one for the purposes of this discussion is the Suite 16 of BSA Safety. If you are unfamiliar with that, you need to get familiar with it, And I will have a link to the Suite 16 of BSA Safety in the post that contains this podcast at scoutmastercgcom. If we follow the procedures and policies in the Suite 16, we're going to mitigate or limit risks our scouts are exposed to.

Now we're not going to eliminate them, but we are going to mitigate them and we're going to keep them safe. Now I'm not going to try and go through all 16 points here, but I'm going to point out a couple that help to answer John's question.

The first point of the Suite 16 is qualified supervision, and I'm going to read that exactly as it appears online: Every BSA activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children and youth in his or her care. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced and skilled in the activity to be confident of his or her ability to lead and teach the necessary skills to respond effectively in the event of an emergency Field. Knowledge of all applicable BSA standards and a commitment to implement and follow BSA policy and procedures are essential parts of the supervisor's qualification.

So let's parse that a little bit. What qualifies any scout leader to supervise an average camp out?

Well, first, he or she understands the risk and accepts the responsibilities. They're also familiar with and able to teach the necessary skills and they're prepared to respond to emergencies. They must be sufficiently trained, experienced and skilled.

Now there are three tests there for qualifying a person to supervise a scouting activity. They have to be trained, number one, experienced, number two and skilled, number three. You can't just be trained, you can't just be experienced, or you can't just be skilled. You need to be all three.

Now, training: that's a fairly simple thing and the BSA has provided wonderful resources for safety training. If you haven't already, you need to make sure that you take all of the safety training that you can possibly take. Most of those courses are online. There's lightning safety or weather wise. There's safety afloat. There's safe swim defense and whether or not you think you're going on a swimming or a float trip or you're going to be exposed to harsh weather conditions or not, take all of them, because it will start to get in your mind the BSA approach to safety and it is extraordinarily important and I hope that everyone takes advantage of all of the safety training they can possibly get.

You have to match your experience and skill to the activity and to the participants. Let's take safe swim defense. You're going to go someplace. There's a lake and part of what you're planning on doing that weekend is boys are going to go swimming.

First of all, have you been trained in safe swim defense? Have you actually supervised scouts when they've been swimming?

Do you have any experience and skill? Your experience and skill is going to determine how you apply your training. The first few times you supervise scout swimming using the safe swim defense, you're going to be extraordinarily conservative in your approach and as you gain skill and experience you'll become more comfortable- but never inattentive or cavalier- in applying the training that you've been giving. But you get more experience and you gain more skill. When a new Scoutmaster goes camping, they're going to supervise at a distance that matches their training, ability and skill.

A brand new scout leader is going to spend more time in a scout's campsite, observing without interfering, until their experience and skill permits them to, you know, broaden the distance a little bit. So what risks are involved in an average camping trip?

Well, we think of things like fire and fire heats, water, so hot liquids, you know, those moving around a campsite that can be kind of dangerous Edge tools like knives and hatchets and saws. These are all pretty obvious risks.

Now, do we understand the risks? Have we taught or overseen the teaching of the skills to handle those risks safely?

What kind of experience do we have with them? Do we review them constantly with our youth leaders and our adult leaders?

Let's look at a very specific risk. Let's look at knives or edge tools like hatchets and saws?

Has every scout completed totenship training before they start using those things in camp? Are the safety practices taught by the totenship course maintained by youth and adult leaders? The totenship course doesn't eliminate risk. I mean, one of the trips I took to the emergency room was for a scout who managed to cut himself to the extent where he needed eight stitches. He did this with a pocket knife and it happened about 20 minutes after he had gotten his totenship card And he was a few feet up from me at the time.

The only way I was going to prevent that accident was to stand over the scout and then grab the knife just before it sliced his thumb. I'm not gifted with superhuman foresight, so I ended up at the emergency room.

Now, was I adequately supervising the scout? I would say yes.

Did he have the skills and training to be able to prevent that accident? Well, he had the training, but he hadn't developed the experience or skills yet.

How can I be adequately supervising scouts if they're out of sight? Well, this guy was right there, A couple feet away, Zingo cuts his thumb. What I had done was I had done my best to mitigate the risk and I used common sense.

So he was trained in totenship skills. He had demonstrated that he knew them.

But you know he's a boy, he's inexperienced and there's a cut. Now, that's one out of hundreds of boys, at times going camping.

So, as John mentioned in his e-mail, you know injuries can happen. Accidents can happen when I'm standing right there.

So what's the difference between them happening right there and those happening if the scouts are camped a distance from me? Well, there really is no difference, because what we're looking for is the proper application of your training, experience and skills.

Now, in that case that I just described, I applied my training experience and skills, still had an accident. You know, That's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

So let's talk about how do we apply training, experience and skills supervising our scouts if they're camped at some remove from where the adults are camping. Well, I ask a lot of questions And by asking questions I assess risk and I apply common sense. I ask a patrol leader or senior patroller what they will be doing. If there's anything that sounds remotely like it's a safety issue, I'm going to ask them questions about mitigating risk for that particular activity. If I ask the senior patroller, I say: what are you guys going to be doing.

Well, we're going to be gathering firewood, Say, okay, you're going to be cutting the firewood, Yeah, What are you going to be using? An axe?

Okay, so tell me about your axe yard. Where have you set that up? Tell me a couple of safety rules about hand axes.

If this is a new senior patrol leader or a lot of inexperienced boys, I might say: look, since you're doing this for the first time, make sure to come and get me before you start swinging any axes or hatchets so I can look at and see what's happening. When it's time to cook dinner, I may wander through patrol campsite or observe closely and make sure that the campfire is okay, make sure that the cooking setup is okay and if I see any problems or not, if I see problems or not, I'm still going to ask questions.

What's going to happen if that pot of boiling water tips over? Is there a better place you can set up your camp stove?

Is there a better setup for your campfire? If it looks eminently dangerous, I'm going to stop it. I'm going to stop it and I'm going to say: look, guys, you're in a little bit of danger here.

So let me make some suggestions about how you can fix that. You need to change the campfire setup this way. You need to put the stove on a better ground. You need to make sure that you have pot holders before you mess around with that pot of hot water, Just that type of thing. I can do this without interfering, without doing everything for them. I assess risk and I supervise that particular activity by asking questions.

If I'm sitting with my cup of coffee in a remote campsite from the boys and I hear some shouting, what am I going to do? I'm going to see what's going on.

If scouts are going to take off on a hike, I want to know where they're going. I want to know if they have a cell phone.

I want to know if they have a first aid kit. I want to know if there's a signal for the cell phone.

I want to know what time they will return. I want to look at the group of scouts that's going and I want to assess whether or not they're going to need a couple of older scouts along with them or if they're going to need a couple of adults along with them. If there's a shadow of a doubt, I am going to do whatever I can to apply my training, skills and experience to mitigate whatever risks are present. If we're camped near a body of water, I'm going to ask my senior patrol leader what the rules for swimming are. I'm going to ask him if scouts have been reminded of them. I'm going to ask him if he thinks they can go swimming or not.

You know- and they can't- unless an adult, trained and safe twit swim defense is present. I'm asking him if taking off your shoes and raiding in the creek is a good idea, Why or why not? I ask about the buddy system. I ask how they're managing the buddy system. I ask a lot of questions, lots and lots of questions.

So what happens when a couple of scouts sneak off and have a hatchet throwing contest? What happens when somebody decides to see what it's like if they throw a lighter into the fire?

Can I control or supervise scouts who are willingly and knowingly undertaking something in the contravention of established safety standards? Well, no, I can't. And that's when I need to consider 0.8 of the Suite 16.. And 0.8 is skill level limits. And I'm going to read exactly what that says: There is a minimum skill level requirement for every activity And the supervisor must identify and recognize this minimum skill level and be sure that none are put at risk by attempting activity beyond their ability.

So I have to know my scout's abilities. Do I know my youth leaders well?

Do I know what their strengths and weaknesses are? Have they demonstrated the ability to safely conduct and supervise an activity they're about to undertake?

Do I need to have adults overseeing, instructing, observing the activity, or can we keep our distance? Training experience and skill, Asking lots and lots of questions, Observing, without interfering? All of these are important things. You are going to do what you need to do to make sure that your scouts are safe. You're going to apply your training according to your experience and skill.

So it's very important to me that you don't listen to this podcast or read the blog and get the wrong idea. You know well, Clark said we should camp away from the boys.

So let's give that a shot. And you know you just camp away from the boys and you don't apply your training, your skills or your experience to mitigating risks.

That would not be common sense, would it? If you are a brand new scout leader, you're going to be a little bit closer to the situation until you have the experience and the skills to be able to assess risks, to be able to know your scouts, know their abilities and to help them design their activities in accordance with those things. A prudent leader who uses their common sense is not going to ever ignore safety.

They're never going to think well, you know, boys will be boys. What happens happens. That's foolish. What you're going to do is you're going to be trained, and that's incredibly important. You must. You must have every aspect of safety training that you can possibly take, whether you think you will ever apply it or not, it's important.

You must review those things from time to time. This is why most of the training, like safe swim defense and weather wise and trek on safely, are only good for two years, Because two years later you need to go back and see if there have been any changes or there's been any improvement on the advice and you need to retake the training. These are not irksome or difficult things to do. Actually, I welcome the idea that I need to go back and get trained every couple of years in these things.

I've been through safe swim defense and safety afloat probably five or six times now, But it's always good to renew it. So your prudence and your common sense are very, very important. A sober assessment of your level of training, your experience and your skills- incredibly important.

So you adjust the way that you apply the concept of scouts being scouts camping away from the adults to those things, to your training, your experience and your skill level. As you grow more comfortable and knowledgeable, you'll be fine.

Now, in those instances where I've talked about a troop trip that we've taken and I may say: well, you know, we were camped over here, the boys were camped over there. Don't think for one minute I did not have my mind over in that scout campsite And I was not thinking through all of my training, applying my experience and skills. Don't think that I wasn't watching what was going on. Don't think that we weren't observing and asking questions, because that is a constant, constant aspect of applying the scout program and assuring the safety of our scouts. John, I hope that helps. I hope that helps everyone.

I'm sure there's going to be some questions generated from this talk, so do send them to me at scoutmastercgatverizonnet.