Scoutmaster Podcast 88

And now the old Scoutmaster. Did you guys hear my dog? Yes, She's a foxhound and if something walks by the house, like within a half a mile of the house, she gets very interested and needs to let me know.

I think I've heard her before, So that's going to be edited out. Huh, Well, we'll see. If it turns out to be kind of interesting and funny, we'll leave it. Hey, this is podcast number 88. Hey, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Peter LaRue wrote in about last week's interview with Mark Dyer and Doug Metz about Shelter Box And if you haven't heard that one, you know, make sure you get a listen to it. Peter wrote in and said that he saw Shelter Box at the World Jamboree and he's been very keen to investigate introducing it to scouting in South Africa.

So we're glad we could help make that connection. Also from Tom Gillard- and you're going to hear from Tom later on. He said we had our full district camperee this past weekend.

Some of the other adults and I have been talking about the respectful distance we need to establish from scouts. I informed the committee at the last meeting in the intent of moving the adult camp about 150 feet down the road from the troop at the camperee.

I informed the senior patrol leader of this on the ride out there And frankly he was a little shocked and I think maybe a little bit scared. But everything went very well, mostly because we adults couldn't see all the small things that we might interfere with. A few times I went down to the scout campsite. I stopped at the entrance and I asked permission to enter And that kind of shocked most of them. I would ask the senior patrol leader, if he had the schedule, Tell them to stop by and pick us up on the way to activities. And they did, without any clock checking on my part.

Now they didn't get there as early as I would have, but they really weren't very late either. I gave the senior patrol leader a safety review and basically we left him alone And that turned that weekend into a relaxing one for me and the other adults. Not that I wasn't looking through the woods to see how large the fire was and things like that, But the adults could sit around and talk about stuff and just be a little more relaxed. After lunch I stopped in to see how things were going with the scouts. They had done all the activities and weren't going back out. I asked them what they were going to do with themselves that afternoon.

They said: well, we're going to do some advancement with the younger scouts. I almost had to sit down. Anyway, they had a good time. Sunday morning I was asking the scouts what they would be telling their fellow scouts That they didn't make the camperee.

Would they tell them what went on? What did they think of it?

I emphasized that it was a trusted responsibility And I think they really understood this because they wanted to continue. I've been kind of reluctant to try this step of being a little bit more at arm's length from them, And I've been reluctant for quite a while. But this experience reinforced what you've written about on the blog And talked about on the podcast and, of course, what Baden Powell had to say.

That's all for now, and that's Tom Gillard in Tollahoma, Tennessee, And that's a great report. It's a challenge to let scouts do things for themselves. Sometimes It's a constant challenge for me.

I know it is for most of you, But when we do let them do things for themselves, That's when the program really starts to click, isn't it? I mean, that's when it really kicks in. Let me take note too, that there is a new Eagle Project booklet That has just been released within the past week And a new advancement guide that's just been released. These are two pretty key pieces of knowledge for every scout leader to have, And we'll be discussing them on the blog and in the podcast in the coming weeks Because some of the changes are very encouraging indeed.

There are some things that have changed And that we will need to adjust some of our procedures To recognize those changes, And there are some things that have changed That are an emphasis of what was there before, But they're just spelled out a bit clearly And I have taken the time to review both of those documents. I think it's fantastic.

I think it's going to make a whole lot of difference, Especially in those kind of disputed, troubled eagle things that happen, And you know, boards of review and Scoutmaster conferences Kind of sets a clearer path for how to resolve conflicts. What both of these new documents do Is emphasize the importance of reaching the scout with the program And to make sure that our policies and procedures are designed with that in mind.

So next up, and for the rest of the podcast, is our first Scoutmaster panel. That's right, we've got a panel of Scoutmasters put together From all over the country. There were three of us this time And I'm very interested to see what direction this takes.

I think we've got a pretty solid thing put together And I think you'll enjoy listening This time around. Our question for the panel was: What would you tell a new Scoutmaster?

What would you tell somebody who's considering taking the job? And I think you'll enjoy it, And that's going to take up the remainder of the podcast.

So let's get started, shall we? And everything that feels just as it should. You're part of a life there. You're part of something good, If you've ever wandered lonely through the woods,

If you'd ever been out walking new and known. So, on the Scoutmasters podcast today We're trying a little experiment.

We've got a panel of Scoutmasters put together And we're going to talk about, After we've been through this for several years, How we would advise a new Scoutmaster, What we would tell him that we know now That we didn't know then. From Vera Florida, Larry Geiger is joining me, And Larry has been a Scoutmaster For several different troops over the years And is now an assistant Scoutmaster For the troop. He was most recently Scoutmaster For troops 720 there in Vera. How you doing today, Larry, Good doing good. Tom Gillard is in tele home of Tennessee Where he is the Scoutmaster of troop 402. Welcome to the podcast, Tom.

Thank you very much. And Walter Underwood is a past Scoutmaster Of troop 14 and is now the assistant Scoutmaster For their venture patrol. And Walter is in Palo Alto, California. Howdy, Walter. Hi there, Larry, we said that you were a Scoutmaster For several different troops.

If we put all those years together, How many years do you figure you spent as a Scoutmaster? I think it's 14, Tom. Same question: 18, 18 years.

And Walter, It's about six, though I started up with Cubs So I've worked my way up through assistant and leader all the way. Were you involved in Cubs, Tom? No, we didn't actually have very many Cubs When I was growing up. We didn't, But my kids were, And I guess I did the weeblows thing With the boys before we went into Boy Scouts When they started camping. That's what got you interested. Yeah, that's it.

How about you, Larry, Have any involvement with Cubs? I was the weeblows leader for A one year from my eldest son. You guys all have the experience of having worked in Cubs, scouting, Making the transition up to Boy Scouts.

What kind of person makes a good Scoutmaster? And I'll turn to you first, Larry.

I think a lot of Scoutmasters are kind of in a middle position somewhere. They're not usually CEOs or guys that are really, really busy.

It's usually somebody that understands leadership And can do some of that, But it's not necessarily a business owner or somebody that's so busy They don't have time for it. And then it's somebody that loves working with Scouts, That wants to really get in there, either with their own son Or, if they don't have a son, Somebody that really wants to work with them And to learn and to grow.

What would you add to that time? Well, the person would have to be willing to try different things, To go a little bit outside his comfort zone, Get out of the box type stuff.

And, Walter, what would you add? I think, especially coming over from Cubs, You need someone who has the patience to watch boys Fail as they learn. If you can watch boys try to light a fire for 30 minutes Without saying anything.

And the other thing is you have to be really solid in the ideals, The oath and law and what you're about, And that it's citizenship, character and fitness, Because you end up explaining this all the time. It's not the same as soccer teams, And especially with parents.

You need to be very solid when somebody comes in And says: why isn't my son a patrol leader? Because this is how we do it.

So patience, are you as patient now as you were When you started out as a Scoutmaster? Walter, I have learned the Scoutmaster position, Which is one hand in your pocket And the other holding a cup of coffee.

How about you, Larry? I think I'm way more patient than I was when I started- Less flappable, more unflappable, And all three of you had sons involved.

What are we looking out for when we take on that position And our sons involved? I don't want to show favoritism to my own son, So there's a whole lot of. Let one of the other assistants Take care of stuff that happens with your son And you'll take care of his son.

Larry, what was your experience? My guys and I don't think had a problem with that. I've asked them about that. They're both fairly independent And they both had good friends in the troop That they hung out with. I did a few of their Scoutmaster conferences. Some other assistant Scoutmasters did them.

I think it worked out pretty well. Walter, what was your experience? When I was asked to be Scoutmaster, I asked my son about it And he thought it was a terrible idea. He came around And in fact he was SPL And I was Scoutmaster And that worked out pretty well. But it was really nice to have Hand that over to another Scoutmaster And he was still SPL And let me be able to see them work together.

So patients having a little bit of You end up having those things that you do as a father And those things that you do as a Scoutmaster And that can be kind of fuzzy at times. It can be kind of hard to figure. What challenges do you expect a new Scoutmaster Is going to meet, Sometimes trying to do I can do it better myself Or it won't get done right if I don't do it. Mentality, And you've got to realize that It will get done. It won't be the way you wanted it to, But it will get done If you ask And everybody's behind the program.

So you've got to be careful with that. I'm a delegator And I don't have a lot of problem with that When I give something to somebody You know. Before long as people come around, I give it all away. The truth is I just don't have much to do, But for some reason I don't have a lot of anxiety Like some guys do About that.

I was a scout from My 11th birthday, The day of Until I was 18, So I had kind of a background I did. I thought I think for me Working with the scouts Wasn't as much as Working with the parents, the moms And the committee. That opened up more of the challenges sometimes.

I want to get back to that. Larry, you were fairly experienced in scouting. You had some background.

Tom, how about you? I joined when I was 11 And eagled out At 18. I was one of those late eagles But I went all the way through the program also. And, Walter, I was a cub scout. I was a scout through 18.

I was on summer camp staff One summer when I was in college, So I had plenty of experience. I thought: Do you think that somebody without any background in it Can actually take the job on? The guy that preceded me Was a retired navy guy. He was never a scout And he had daughters And he was Scoutmaster for three years.

He did very well And he was a very good Scoutmaster And really loved the kids. So, yeah, I absolutely think that That if it's the right person, they can do that.

I think that with the network, That there is something like this With the internet, with roundtables, With the training, Yes, you could do it. You could be a good Scoutmaster With no background in the program. The two Scoutmasters that followed me Have been both.

Either one had a scouting experience growing up, And so you certainly have to help them along As Scoutmaster emeritus And give them hints here and there. We're also lucky.

Our boys are very, very particular About leading the operation And if you try to step in, They will let you know That it is a boy led troop And you're doing it wrong. And so, even if you don't have A whole background of Scouting experience as a youth, That you can still do this If you go and take advantage Of the different support networks That are available, If you kind of listen to people Who've got a little bit of experience. Larry, you started talking a little bit About working with parents, Working with other volunteers.

I think that might- I'm not saying that You saying that would put people off. But I think that would be a pretty big factor In somebody who's thinking about Taking the job on Is whether or not they could stand doing that. I don't know.

I don't think I would have done very well If I hadn't had very, very strong committees. Both times I've been a Scoutmaster. I've had basically The whole time rooms full of people From this troop We average about 15. In my last troop We average 20 to 35 In a committee meeting And with all of those people In the committee They get to know Kind of what's going on And don't freak out about Quite as much As people that are totally on the sideline, Particularly moms of single, Single moms. They're not in committee meetings, They're busy.

It's just harder sometimes, I think, for them. I have a letter from a mom. It's about me Inflexible and insufferable And I don't know A whole bunch of ins And unfortunately my committee chairman Had a sense of humor And I don't want to. I don't want to be negative about that, It's just It can be a challenge on occasions Working through that, Like you said, when parents don't understand Why their son's not patrol leader.

You know you got to walk through that. We're talking to somebody Who maybe is considering being a scoutmaster, Who's a newly minted scoutmaster?

And they're encountering some of these things And you do get through them, don't you? Yeah, Oh, absolutely.

I would agree that a committee chair Is really essential And we have Our committee meetings, Really a parent meeting. We have them During the first troop meeting of the month, Right, And so the parents are all over in another room, The scoutmaster's typically there Letting the SPL run the meeting And off we'll have the SPL come in And explain something that's going on. But that really helps. I actually spent more effort Rebuilding the connection With our charter organization.

You know, kind of getting Reconnected with the pastor, Having the whole troop show up For parish workdays In troop t-shirts And really just getting that back On track, And I want to talk more about that. But just talking about overcoming Those first couple of months of resistance Or difficulty, you know, Being the new guy in the job, Does anybody have anything That they specifically remember from that time? The way I look at it- My committee chairman and I- Is that the committee chairman and I Are in charge and responsible for everything.

Anything in the troop that doesn't happen, There's not somebody to cover, We do, And so the idea is Is that we don't push people To do stuff, even the scouts. We say: what we want is everybody to do What they're trained, experienced And comfortable doing. And if you work it that way, Eventually it takes time sometimes, But eventually you'll find a guy That wants to be treasurer for eight years And he never loses a penny Because he's doing what he wants to do. If you'd made him an advancement chair Or a committee chair, You'd have had a disaster.

So you just keep working through. And the same thing with the scouts. Some guys don't want to be SPL, They want to be instructors.

Some guys, you know, It just depends. You have to work with them And find out what, exactly Where they fit, And then encourage them To go do that And do it.

Well, Tom, do you remember That first period after you decided That you would go ahead and take on the job? Was it really challenging? It was a little bit like What Larry was talking about.

Since we were a brand new troop, We didn't have many adults And I was doing a lot of the stuff. But as we needed stuff, Even if there weren't a position, Even if nobody volunteered for anything, You could always go and ask a parent. And if it was a close-ended thing, They would say, sure, I'll do that, And sort of got those things off of me Back into the committee Or then started getting the boys To doing the stuff.

So it started shifting back to where it should be And leaving me and the committee chair Doing what we're supposed to be doing. And Walter, you talked about having to Kind of rebuild the chartered Organization relationship As one of the challenges That come easily to mind.

Well, when my son joined We had a big year And the troop grew from 23 to 46 scouts And then I became Scoutmaster that March. So we were really adjusting To being a more organized, Little bit less seat of the pants Troop And we had really excellent Outings chair moved on.

That was a real adjustment To just get more people Stepping in to do more things Because we were bigger, And get the scouts used to doing things As opposed to just a little group To knew each other as to a bigger group. So that was There was a real adjustment there And I was shepherding a lot of that.

So, Walter, when you, When your outdoor guy left, Did you and the committee chair Pick that up until, like, say, For six months, until the right guy Came along. We did have somebody volunteer And they were pretty good, But they weren't nearly as good As the previous guy.

But did you get another one eventually? Yes, yes, We're a most recent outdoor chair.

We've gone to be Scoutmaster And now we have another one, And so that's really settled down Now that we've adjusted to the size we are. And of course, now we just got another 20 scouts, So we have to have another adjustment.

Well, we've talked a lot about Importance of a strong troop committee. We've talked a little bit about Relating to the charter organization.

Larry, what's your experience As far as the importance of Having good connections with the charter organization? I was in troop 705 for about two years And it wasn't going really well.

So we started a new one And both my pastors were Eagle Scouts- The current one and then the previous one- And were extremely supportive. It was an excellent relationship.

How about you, Tom? They're very standoffish But they are in the charter organization. He's had three sons. Two of them have become Eagles. The third one is working very hard And he's in the troop And he's in the charter organization.

So he is our link. And one of the other key relationships Is the relationship to the district And the council.

What are your thoughts on that? Fellas, This will probably get censored. I encourage people to take training But particularly in my first troop I kept most of my guys fairly isolated. I went to Roundtable And the rest of the district at the time Was the kind of thing where If I brought my committee data and nabbed them- When you say that You mean they would have asked them To volunteer and do something. And we ended up along the way With 50, 60, 70 scouts And I sent the assistant Scoutmasters to training And the main thing That we had a relationship with the district Was the district advancement chair. But you have to have a good relationship With the district advancement chair, Particularly if you're going to have Eagle scouts.

That's essential. I don't know, It depends on your troop.

We have troops that have trailers And they have all kinds of gear And the biggest thing of the year Is the two camperees And they set all this stuff up And we're the guys that You know that park at the gate And backpack in And go back in the bushes. That's sort of us too. We're a very minimalist backpacking troop. We don't have a trailer.

The district and the Roundtables, I think, are pretty invaluable Because you do gain an awful lot Of knowledge. The other Scoutmasters, The other committee district people That are there Are more than willing to share their experiences And you find out- Hey, you really aren't in this by yourself In the district And I was the District advancement chair For a couple of years, I guess A few years ago- And that's a whole. Another Being on the district side Is a whole another story.

I think the district is Being associated in the district Is very useful. Yes, I would agree with that. I know I'm about to find out About the other side. I've just been invited to be on, To be on the district advancement committee And help approve eagle projects. But no, our district is Very lightweight and helpful. Our troop is also a backpacking troop, As are most of the troops around here.

Like Tom, a lot of what I get out of it Is knowing the other Scoutmasters Right. There's a real comradery Among the troops. When I was a kid It seemed like there was a rivalry Between the troops, But nowadays it seems like Especially being an adult now. Everybody really tries to get along With each other because You're doing the same thing.

Now, one thing I'll mention, that Is, we live in Florida And it's hot and it's buggy. So we go to Camp Daniel Boone And Camp North Carolina, Which is the Asheville council. It's in the mountains, It's 3,500 feet, It's cool, it's beautiful. Again, that sets us off. If you tend to go to your local camp, You also make connections That we don't make True, more than just your committee And the other people that are working with your troop. You can stretch out a little bit.

You can find some help, assistance, Some comradery with people In your district and your council as well. Right, the council. The person you want to really know In the council level, When the council level, Is the secretary for camping And the secretary for advancement. Those are the two. Yeah, they know how to get things done, Absolutely.

Let's talk a little bit about Working with your youth leaders. There's different styles of doing this. There's different ways of approaching it.

What's the dynamic Of the youth leadership? So far as your role as Scoutmaster is involved, If you focus on the leaders And you kind of leave the other guys alone, You begin to develop that relationship Where the older guys Take care of the younger guys. Everybody's different. There, I guess, is what I would say Is: I've seen different Scoutmasters, Different ways And I'm pretty much hands off Most of the time. But some people are more hands on And it seems to work for them And the boys still do the thing They still do- scouting.

So how you work that out And getting to know the guys When you're brand new Is just something that you have to do As a Scoutmaster, And it's the Especially. The senior patrol leader Depends on how old he is, How much experience he might have, And if he's a go-getter You just step back and let him go. If he's very timid, You have to say You have to send him notes through emails The week before And let him cultivate that For the next meeting.

So the age and maturity Of your senior patrol leader Is going to affect how you handle it, No matter whether you're new or old, Right, but we're talking about new guys here, Right, I guess that's what we're going to focus on. And you don't know them.

Well, you may not- I don't know If you've been in the troop a while- But if you walk in And you don't know them, You have to develop that relationship. Well, that's true too, yeah, So that's hard coming in cold. It is a real delicate balance Between how much do you let them Risk and fail While you're still responsible For the program of the troop.

So there's a real balance Of that sort of mentoring While having the campouts happen And having things happen on them And advancement, And it's just hard Right. It's one of those subtle balance Sorts of things That you just have to work out. From my personal experience, It takes a while to figure out Exactly how it all works. Whether you've had any experience In scouting or not. It takes a lot of practice To find all the subtleties Of working and motivating youth leaders.

Well, it depends on how much of it Is leading and motivating And how much of it is them finding Their own way. It's a little bit of both, Because you're letting them go To figure out their own leadership ability.

Some of them, you know You can't teach every kid Because every kid is different. You teach them some principles But then they have to go and do that. Some kids are just loud And a little bit bossy But it works for them.

You know another kid try that And you know it's just like Who are you? And then other guys Are just kind of quiet And they're more in the background And yet guys just walk over And say: hey, what do you think we should do?

You know so their leadership styles Can be very, very different And they have to kind of The scouts have to kind of find that, And that's where you encourage them In their leadership. But you don't drown it out.

Hey, you know you're not doing. You know senior patrol, You're not doing enough of this, You know, or that kind of thing.

As opposed to well, you really handle that. Well, How can you take whatever you did there And use it over here in this situation? And they have to figure that out.

You can't say, well, then you need to do that Because that won't work. Is there anything that you did, Any of you did, particularly That you would look back on and you say I would, really I would warn somebody Not to do that, Had a great experience.

Part of our part of growing Was that we split into more patrols And so we had the leaders, Scouts, do that, And they did a fantastic job. And then one of the We have assistive patrol leaders Associated with the patrol, So they're kind of liaisons, And so someone had been with one of these patrols For a long time, Looked at the result and said, Well, some of the scouts I've been with For all these years are now in another patrol, And could we change all this? And I let him change.

And that was a mistake, Because we that haunted us For a couple of years, Because they had it arranged So they were kind of younger, Kind of a bench for leadership. So when the patrol leader moved on And so we ended up with one patrol That didn't have anybody to fill in For the next patrol leader, Another patrol with too many older scouts That all aged out at once And boy, yeah, I let the adults Mess with the boys' decisions. That was a bad idea.

So, Walter, what you're describing is The boys set up their own patrols And then you allowed The adults to kind of overrule that. They just made some adjustments. Yeah, It was very finely balanced work. Boys did a fantastic job. Yeah, And it threw it out of balance. Hmm, that's interesting.

The word I would use is meddling, And I think that's One of the regrets I would have Is I have meddled a couple of times In SPL elections And patrol organization Once or twice. Shouldn't have We started to mess around with The patrol arrangement once And backed off? I don't remember exactly why, But we backed off of that. But we meddled around Trying to do troop rules.

You know, And the troop rules are Her in the book, So you know. And what rules are you talking about specifically?

We were trying to get Punishment rules. If you do this, then this will Happen, And we had a trouble- Trouble child- And we were trying to lay down more rules To cover what he was doing, Instead of going. You're not living up to the oath and the law. These are the rules.

So that That came about and lasted For a very short time And it's. It's gone away now.

So meddling, Like thinking that you're smarter than the boys, Because a lot of times we're not. Well, I don't know That. It's that we're smarter. Sometimes we are smarter, Sometimes we could do it better. But when we meddle, We take away that learning process. Whether they would do it better, the same or less, It doesn't matter.

The point is it's not Whether we're smarter or whether there's a better end result. The point is that they did it And they learned one way or the other from that, And that's the main.

The other thing that came up was Overlaying a whole lot of other things Of the program in the way of rules And regulations and stuff like that. I've made that mistake, My hands up. I definitely did that in the past And found out that If most of those rules and regulations Had any merit to them, They would have been there in the first place. Can't go wrong if you stick to the program.

So we've talked a lot about The different challenges that you come across, Some of the relationships that you need to think about, The way that you work with the scouts, How about at home, How about dealing with Your family, your wife, and How that all works. I mean, everybody knows I go to work and I'm a scout. My wife and boys have always supported that I'm a scout guy. Everybody knows that. Everybody that knows me is the scout guy. I guess if you stick with it for a while, That's going to get attached to you, That's associated with you And with your wife.

So it's a family thing Completely. You do become The program. People do recognize you Because of stuff you've done through the scouting And Your wife Does become the wife Of the Scoutmaster. Whether they know her or not, They know that she's the wife of the Scoutmaster But she's got to support it.

And My boys, You lost your ticket But you still get to go on the ride? Absolutely. You're almost as old as the rest of us, Walter.

What do you think about that? I'm a preacher's kid And my mom Always made it very clear That she was not the preacher's wife, She was Merle's wife And that was her number one, As opposed to being just another Hand around the corner. And that was her number one As opposed to being just another hand Around the church.

And so I tried to make sure that It's really my thing And it's really I get fantastic support from the family, But that they're first. Now Tina thought it was a little weird at first With all these little kids running around in blue uniforms And it is a little weird. But they She's actually came around and volunteered And organized the boards of review For the past several years And has really enjoyed Talking to the scouts and the boards.

So it's been great support. But it's really important To keep that In balance.

So this group has a number of years Behind them as being a volunteer Leader in scouting And it's a lot. It's a lot to ask of somebody. It makes There's challenges and demands on your time.

Any regrets? Would you recommend it to folks? Absolutely, No regrets, No regrets. I would encourage people to make sure that You find some enthusiasm in it. If you like to hike, Make sure that there's That you're really having fun doing. Yeah, I agree, No regrets at all.

It's the greatest thing. Well, you're the scout guy I know.

Well, listen, I really appreciate everybody joining in. I hope folks will find this Valuable. If you would like us to talk about Another subject in scouting, Or if you're having a particular Problem or challenge, Get in touch And we'll do it again. Thank you, Clark, You're welcome, And Tom And Walter. It's been a pleasure And it's been good to talk to y'all And we'll talk again soon.