Scoutmaster Podcast 77

And now the old Scoutmaster. The other night there was a horrible, horrible accident, just before a scout meeting. One of the scouts ran into the meeting and said: I'm afraid it looks like the Scoutmaster has been hit by a bus. And the troop committee chairman said: yeah, yeah, it does. But he's got a great personality and he's real good with the scouts. Think about that one for a little bit.

Hey, this is podcast number 77..

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Okay, let's see what we've had come over the transom and in the mail bag and on the emails and all that kind of stuff in the past week or so. Walter Underwood was in touch with us about our last podcast. He said good advice on homesickness. The buddy system helps too. Their tent made as their buddy and we strongly encourage the scouts to go around camp together. It's easier to stay busy in this new, strange place and makes it less foreign when you have a buddy to enjoy it with.

Our camp director requests that adults keep cell phones out of the campsites at all times. If we do need to make a call, we can do that from the Scoutmaster's lounge or from an isolated bench with good reception and a great view. Sometimes just seeing a cell phone makes new scouts think about calling home and I have had them beg me to make a call when they were fine, just before they saw the phone. But luckily our campsite doesn't have any signal.

So thanks, Walter, You were not alone in your observations about calling home. Joe said this. He said: I agree with most of what you're saying about coping with homesickness, except the calling a home part. I couldn't disagree more. After numerous years of summer camp, calling home has always proven to be counterproductive.

Well, I'll tell you something I may have not made myself clear in the last podcast when we talked about calling home as being a cure for homesickness. We don't call home in the middle of like a bout of homesickness where the boy is going crazy and everything like that. What I use that particular measure for is as a touchstone, as some kind of a way for a boy to realize that things are fine back home, Everybody's good, There's no big problems And most of the time- actually all of the time- this works fine, Because I speak to the parents before the boy speaks to the parents and I explain the situation to them out of earshot of the boy.

I say: hey, you know, I've got John over here. He's been feeling a little homesick. I promised him that he could call home And I would just want us to both be on the same page. I don't want to have any problems about us disagreeing as to whether he should stay for the rest of the week or not. I know that that's a commitment that we've all made around making this happen. I just think it might do him some good if he can speak with you and realize that that's not an option.

And then, you know, sometimes that conversation goes on for a little while explaining to parents: hey, you know, it's not going to be all that bad for us here, because a lot of times they're very apologetic about: oh, I'm so sorry you're going through this and everything. Hey, no big deal, broad shoulders, big group, We can take it, not a problem.

And you know that's the way we. And, like I say, maybe I didn't explain it very well in the last podcast, but that's the way I use phone calls as far as something to mitigate or to work with home sick scouts. Bill McFarland wrote in and said years ago at CubCamp some of my scouts were a bit nervous about being away from home. Part of it was being in the dark in a strange place. By simply hanging one of those light sticks, one of those chemical lights, in a tent, It relieved their concerns.

Now, as the Scoutmaster, I'm pleased to see those same scouts as youth leaders using the same trick with first-year campers. And that's actually- you know, that's- a pretty smart idea. I've seen some flashlight batteries be very short-lived because some of the boys want to keep those flashlights on all night. And if they need something in the way of a little security blanket, maybe one of those light sticks is a good idea. As a matter of fact, I might throw a few of them in the kit when I'm headed off to camp here in a week.

So just to sew a button on all that. You know, in 27 years of summer camp only lost one boy to homesickness, And that was because he kind of hornswaggled the headquarter staff into letting him use the telephone. He called home and he said: come and pick me up.

So that's the only time that's ever happened. Moving along in this week's podcast in Scoutmastership, in 7 Minutes or Less, we're going to talk a little bit about adults attending scout camping trips.

This was a very popular post that was authored by my friend and contributor, Larry Geiger, who's a scoutmaster down there in Florida, And I think it got so much response And I think it's such a bunch of good ideas that I want to go ahead and feature it over these next two podcasts. And he's got 10 different tips for working with adults attending scout camping trips.

So we'll do five this time and five next time, And after we've done that we'll talk a little bit about some comments that went back and forth on the blog this past week over an old post about Merit Badge Counseling. So I think that'll be enough for this podcast. Hey, let's get started. Shall we Scoutmastership in 7 Minutes or Less.

So this, as promised, is the first of a two-part talk about parents coming on scout camping trips. What we want to do when we bring parents on the trips is we want them to be able to do the right stuff.

Larry says that every once in a while he walks into camp he finds a parent sitting in their son's tent organizing their son's gear and maybe taking care of their tentmate's gear too, because it is so messy, Or over in his son's patrol campsite getting involved in making scrambled eggs or grilling cheese sandwiches or something like that, And that if you're a Scoutmaster, you know what happens. When you see something like that, It kind of sets the alarm bells off in your head because scout camping is about scouts and patrols operating independent of adult interference or help, And this is so important that we have to make sure that any adults who are going along camping with us get it. They need to get that fact.

Now, as I said, there's different ways of looking at this, but let's look at this from the standpoint of somebody who encourages as many adults to come on campouts and to summer camp as possible, And it's a great opportunity for a little informal adult leader training. And you know, especially summer camp, that we could summer camp, We can campouts.

It can be a little busy and you know it might be hard to take a fair chunk of time away from the scouts to be able to work with the adults that are along. We try to be very specific with instructions for new adults. They need to stay in the adult leader area, And that's an important piece.

And if you're not there yet, if that's not what you're doing as a troop when you go camping, that's one thing that you need to pick up on is there's a place for the adults to stay and there's a place for the scouts to stay. I know that I've had many parents come along on camping trips where they just assume: well, you know, I'll share this tent with my son And you know it'll be this nice kind of father-son, mother-son time that we're going to have and everything, And I have to get right in there and make sure that that is never an assumption from the get-go.

If I know a parent's going to accompany us on a camping trip, I make sure that they understand that scouts share tents with scouts, adults share tents with adults and we have our own place and a way that we do things when we're camping. Most parents that go on camping trips they pick up on you, know the whole deal, They'll watch you and your other more experienced leaders and take their clues from them.

And some of them just don't see it and they kind of walk all over your normal expectations, And so you have to get very specific with them. And so number one is and is getting specific with parents and saying this: unless there's an emergency, adult leaders stay out of patrol camping areas. I'll often send a patrol leader or a senior patrol leader over there, but we adults generally stay away And I hope you don't get tired of this particular illustration.

But you know, think of it as the wild animal park. You get to stay in the car, watch the wild animals, the patrol over there, but you don't get out of the car.

You know, if they come up to the car, hey, that's great, but you don't get out of the car and you let them do their own thing. Number two is: we stay out of scouts' tents. We just stay out of them, including your own boys' tent. I wouldn't even think about going into a scouts' tent unless there was an issue that requires my intervention and I'm asked specifically to intervene, and this almost never happens. I mean, the main exception to this is a scout who's sick and really does need some adult assistance. Other than that, I stay out of their tents, I leave them be.

Number three, as I said before, quickly and efficiently establish the adult area at any camp as soon as possible, because the adults need a place to go. They need to set up their chairs and their cooking area and their tents and things like that, and we need to tell any new leaders or new parents that are out on a trip where they may put their tents. And if you do this right, you'll have the senior patrol leader do it. But it might not always work for various reasons, and the Scoutmaster has to be able to back them up. The adult area, if it's possible, should be out of direct sight of the patrol areas too, because there's no reason for adults to sit there and keep an eagle eye on what's happening in a patrol area. Number four: if you have a troop trailer, don't let adults inside it.

I mean, I'm not a big guy for a troop trailer. We've tried it, didn't like it very much.

Let the boys get the gear that they need, Let them take care of it, Keep adults out of it, And I think that's a pretty wise bit of advice from Larry there. If they need to do some construction work on the trailer or some organizing or something like that, let them do it at home, Otherwise they're just going to be getting in the way of the quartermaster. And number five: think about setting up two campfires, one for adults and one for scouts.

Now, if that's not always possible, that's okay, But set up the two campfires. Let the scouts invite you to join them in the evening. If you're in a campsite with only one fire ring, then the scouts get to be close in and the adults sit together in the back.

Some of the best memories you have as a kid being a scout are being able to sit around the campfire at night with your buddies and swap stories and just kind of be, And I think that's a good thing for them to be able to do on their own. So that's the first five of these ten tips for bringing adults along on scout camping trips, And we'll hit the other five in the next edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast. Write me a letter, send it by name Email. That is, folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Last week over on the blog I had a back and forth conversation through comments with somebody about a post on advancement, And I'm going to keep the commenter's identity anonymous in this case because I don't think he was very happy with me And I kind of I wasn't really happy with him either, So and we got into a little bit of an argument.

But I think the subject matter is always relevant And I think it's important to make sure that we're kind of all on the same page about this sort of thing. So the back and forth all began with this comment that he wrote. He said: you seem to think that the Maripatch counselor has the final word on a scout receiving a Maripatch. I ran into a problem with this once when a Maripatch counselor signed off a camping Maripatch and I knew that the scout had not completed a requirement. Prior to my getting this blue card, the scout had told me he was going to lie about how he had fulfilled the requirement. I told the scout and the counselor that I would send in the advancement form when the requirement had been met.

A couple of weeks later I received another signed blue card for the same badge and the requirement had still not been met. The counselor told me he had talked the scout and felt like he deserved the badge. I reiterated I would not approve a Maripatch that I knew wasn't completed. Finally, the scout went on a camping experience to fulfill the requirement and I sent in the advancement form. I don't feel that I overstepped any boundary in doing this.

I feel like it would have been out of line if I allowed the scout to receive something that we all knew he had not earned, especially a Maripatch so close to the core of the scouting experience. So that was the first comment.

Now, this story is not all that uncommon. If we're in the position of Scoutmaster and we suspect or we have direct knowledge of what seems to be something not right about the way a Maripatch is being counseled, or whether or not we agree that a scout has fulfilled the requirements for a Maripatch, what are we supposed to do?

Well, the story that I got through this comment is that the Scoutmaster decided that he would not submit the advancement form, And so there's alarm number one because there's something wrong there. So let's just kind of take this apart and look at policy statements and procedures that affect this type of thing. Let's assume that we know that there's some kind of a problem with a Maripatch.

We have direct, positive knowledge that a scout didn't do something yet is still bringing you a blue card that has been signed by the Maripatch counselor And you then have to take action. So what do you do?

What do you do? Well, before I answer that question, let's take a look at a blue card You sign as a unit leader. You sign a blue card twice. The first time you sign it is to certify that a scout is a member in good standing of his unit and qualifies, therefore to go ahead and take a Maripatch.

That's simple, okay, It has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that he is signed up and part of your unit. It's not that you particularly approve of him taking the Maripatch, that you particularly approve of the counselor, or anything like that. This is: oh yeah, he's signed up and everything.

Now you've probably asked him if the counselor that he is going to use is a registered Maripatch counselor and you've reviewed with him the idea that he goes to visit the counselor or the buddy and all that type of thing. Yes, okay, But that signature, that first signature, is simply a certification that he is currently registered with your troop and therefore qualifies to go and take a Maripatch, because any scout can challenge any Maripatch at any time. Secondly, the second time you're going to sign off on the Maripatch blue card is when the scout brings it back and he's completed the Maripatch application. That's the official name of what we commonly call the blue card. He hands it to you and, as a record that he has submitted it, he gets the one panel of the blue card that says for the applicant or for the scout and you sign that just to certify that he has given you a completed Maripatch application. That's all.

Not that you approve of it, not that you think that he completed it, nothing like that at all. Just that you have received it. The Scoutmaster signing the blue card has absolutely nothing to do with the Maripatch being approved, Has nothing to do with quality control, Has nothing to do with the integrity of the program. What it has to do with is a couple of very simple administrative facts.

If we go to the Advancement Committee guidebook and we look on page 17, it says this: the responsibility for Maripatches shall rest with the Maripatch counselor approved by the local council and district advancement committee. Maripatch counselors shall be registered adult members of the Boy Scouts of America. The Maripatch counselor shall prepare and qualify youth members. There shall be no Board of Review procedure for Maripatches.

And then a few pages later, on page 26 in the Advancement Committee guide, it says a Maripatch cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is a registered counselor for the Maripatch. The Maripatch counselor is the final word on a Maripatch.

It's not that I think that he is, It's not that I feel that he is or anything like that. It's just very, very plain. There's also a statement on the blue card that says that The Maripatch counselor has the final word on the Maripatch. If the Maripatch counselor signs the blue card, the Maripatch is done, the scout has earned the badge.

Now, part of the back and forth with this particular commenter on the blog was he was trying to parse the term earned the badge. He says: well, obviously he hasn't earned the badge, because I know it. There's no condition of authority to be able to decide that. The only person who can decide whether a scout has earned a badge or not is a Maripatch counselor.

Now, before before you go off the deep end here, folks, that's a great procedure and a great rule. There's no reviewing, There's no recourse, There's nothing that happens.

Now, Clark, come on, Even if I absolutely know that the Maripatch counselor has earned the badge and he brings me a blue card signed by a Maripatch counselor, I still have to sign it. I still have to submit it to the advancement committee, then submit the advancement report, etc. I have to shake the boys' hand and I have to give them the Maripatch. Yes, that is true, because you are not always right and a Maripatch counselor isn't always right and a scout isn't always right. If you don't have direct knowledge that this is not right, I understand that. That's not the issue.

The issue is one of authority and the issue is one of policy and procedure. Now, if scoutmasters were the final arbiters of whether a Maripatch had been completed or not, if scoutmasters were the final judge of vetting a Maripatch counselor and making sure they were suitable and everything like that, it would be a different story. But we're not, And really thank goodness we're not, because then we would have to examine each and every Maripatch. We would have to examine the requirements that each scout did. We would have to examine each counselor. There's not enough time in the day for us to do that and it's just not proper for us to do that.

We sit up and we say trustworthy. We stand up and we hold up the scout sign and we say that at least once a week. Most of us right: A scout is trustworthy. If a scout is trustworthy, then when he brings you a blue card, that blue card is his word. It's also the Maripatch counselor's word and we don't second guess it. We just don't.

Now, 27 years, lots and lots of Maripatches have ever figured out how many- Thousands by now Signed lots and lots and lots of blue cards. Also saw it in summer camp as a camp counselor and as a camp director, And there will never be a way for you to be satisfied 100% with every single thing that has ever done for a Maripatch. But let's assume that, as in the commenter we started out with here, that you have absolute, direct knowledge that something is rotten in Denmark and this isn't working.

Do you still have to sign the blue card? Yes, I think we answered that question. Yes, you do. You still have to go through the whole thing and because you're a big guy, you're going to shake the scout's hand and you're going to hand him the Maripatch, because it's not the scout's fault. It's not the scout's fault. It has got to have something to do with the Maripatch Counselor now.

So how do we fix this? Do we sit down and fire off a nasty email to the Maripatch Counselor?

No, Do we get them on the phone and dress them down? And no.

Do we go to them in person and wag our finger at them and haunt them? No, Who certifies Maripatch Counselors? That's right. The District and the Council Advancement Committee.

Each one of those committees has a chairman and you know what their job is. Their job is to make sure that things are going smooth and that Maripatch Counselors are doing their job and that scouts are earning Maripatches. That's their job, not your job.

So if you know, if you have direct knowledge of something being done improperly, who do you go to? That's right.

You go to that committee chairman and you let them know, and then you drop it. You let them take whatever action they're going to take- They may have questions for you later on- and then you just drop it and leave it be The way that this story was put to me. I have no doubt that this particular Scoutmaster felt like he was trying to do the right thing. He was trying to protect the advancement program. He was trying to protect the integrity of scouting and everything. But it's just simply not our job, Not in that particular way.

We have other things to do. We have other things to work at.

We have an advancement system that, if we administer it properly, will take care of itself. So those are some thoughts and some little facts and pieces of policy that affect the way Maripatches work.

Now I'm very interested to hear what you think. I'm very interested to be told that I'm absolutely wrong, but I want you to back it up, not with what you feel, not with the way that you think things maybe should go, but with policy. Show me in black and white, in BSA policy, that I'm wrong and, boy, I'll tell you. I'm happy to learn. I would like to learn because I learned this through my own hard experience with suspecting Maripatch counselors and not wanting to sign blue cards and trying to insert myself into a process that I didn't belong in. Somebody had to show me policy and had to show me what this really meant.

So if I'm wrong, let me know, and let me know your ideas, let me know your experiences around this, because it's a pretty common problem. It's a pretty common problem and sometimes we try and do things and we've got it.

We're a little off course, so we need to get together with folks and we need to try and figure out the best way to make it work.