Scoutmaster Podcast 55

And now it's to you. Scoutmaster Survival tip: if you're going to make a fire using two sticks, always be sure one of them's a match. Hey, this is broadcast number 55..

Hey, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Mike wrote in this week. He said I continue to enjoy your podcast. I usually listen to it the week it comes out. I know a lot of people are catching up on the archives and you can find the podcast archives at scoutmastertypepadcom.

Joe, who's an assistant Scoutmaster in Santa Clara, California, wrote in to say thanks for your podcast. They've been very informative. I enjoyed listening to the latest as I take my dogs for walks in the morning.

I hope it's not disturbing the dogs too much, Joe, I imagine you're using earphones so they can't actually hear what goes on on the podcast. Our last podcast, Podcast 54,, we had an interview with outdoor guide and writer Cliff Jacobson And Joe wrote in about that. He says that was a great podcast And I must say that on the very next camp out I will be putting my ground cloth inside my tent. Then I will wait and watch all the Scouts looking at me with the old head sideways dog looking puzzled, look on their faces.

Well, let me give you a shorthand for that, Joe, That's looking at it like a dog with a new pan. Yeah, So now you've got that to work with right, I might, if asked, explain what I am doing and hopefully not appear to be as crazy as they think I am. Thank you for all the time you put into your podcast. They are, as always, informative and entertaining.

Well, thank you, Joe. Thanks for getting in touch. Not everyone was thrilled with the ground cloth inside the tent idea.

You know Cliff's pretty passionate about that. I'm pretty juiced about it myself. I mean, that's what I do. It's not a rule, but it has some good reasons behind it. Larry Geiger from Florida differed with me on this one. First of all, he said: good program.

I've read Rustrum's books and I've learned quite a bit from his canoeing instruction. That's an author that Cliff mentioned in the interview last week, Calvin Rutstrom. I will step into it. About tents, Larry goes on to say I camp almost exclusively in Florida. Cliff is wrong, Uh-oh. Number one: tent floors are for keeping things out.

When I zip up the door of my tent, I create a barrier against almost everything. I want to be protected from Rattlesnakes, water moccasins, coral snakes, copperhead snakes, mosquitoes, ants, lots and lots of ants, Scorpions- yes, there are scorpions in Florida- Wasps, deer, flies, ticks, cicada killers, noceums and spiders.

Yeah, you know, I think you got something there, Larry. Yeah, you definitely want to keep stuff out of the tent And the floor does do that. I use a heavy plastic ground cloth under my tent floor. Ants will chew right through a common tent floor.

Well, you've got some crazy kind of ants down there in Florida. And then, number three, he says this: What keeps you dry is a tent fly that overhangs the tent all the way around. Agreed, My scouts don't get wet. It does rain here in Florida unless they don't set their tent up correctly.

Well, I think you got some points there, Larry. I'm not going to say who's right and who's wrong, because I don't think it's a right and a wrong thing.

And then I got this message from another Joe: Great show, as always, and a funny interview with Cliff. I'll throw myself into the fray. The tarp goes under the tent.

I spend most of my camping nights in Florida as well, and I agree with Larry. Our troop is just a few miles up the road from Larry's. Perhaps the ground cloth in or under argument really depends on where you are camping. Hey, sounds good to me.

I've never camped in Florida, so I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you, but I'll trust your experience and wisdom there, guys, In this week's podcast in Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, we're going to talk a little bit about an answer to Scouting Magazine's What Would You Do column. I also have an email question to answer and a little story that I received from a listener that comes under the title. This has got to be true, because there's just no way anybody would make this up.

So that's a lot to do. Let's get started, shall we?

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less? Hey, if you're a Scout leader, you're probably subscribed to Scouting Magazine, And if you read Scouting Magazine, one of my favorite features in there is What Would You Do, the column What Would You Do, where people write in with questions and then other leaders write in with their answers.

The latest question that was posted online comes from not an adult leader, but from a Scout, and it's about commanding respect, And the question goes like this: Says: our troop has just seven Scouts who are 14 years of age or older, including me, and then 15 to 20 younger Scouts On campouts. The younger Scouts don't listen to us and they give us attitude when we ask them to do stuff.

We have tried many things, but nothing seems to work. Could you give us some ideas? And that's from Scout AS in San Jose, California. This is the answer that I sent in.

So what leaders do you respect and why do you respect them? Is it because they commanded that you respect them? Probably not, Baden-Powell said. I have frequently stated that anyone can be a commander, and a trained man may often make an instructor, but a leader is more like a poet.

Now, Baden-Powell speaks of three different sorts of people there: the commander, the instructor and the leader. And that to me, is an echo of the leaders described in a pretty well-known quote by the Chinese philosopher Lao Tse, And that quote is: The best leader is the one who people are barely aware of. The next best is one who is loved and praised by the people. Next comes one who is feared. Worst is one who is despised. If the leader does not have enough faith in his people, they will not have faith in him.

The best leader puts great value in words and says little, so that when the work is finished, the people all say: we did it ourselves. Leadership that commands respect, empowers people to do things for themselves. The commander and instructor that Baden-Powell mentioned call attention to themselves and that results in praise or fear, or has everybody kind of laughing up their sleeves at them. We've all seen those three types of leaders before.

Most importantly, I think a leader has to have faith in the people that they're leading. They need to see the world as they do. They need to exercise some empathy and value their time as important as their own. I mean real leaders create an atmosphere of shared accomplishment.

Now, this same question also was posted on Facebook and it garnered these comments and I include them here because I think they're very good examples of typical reactions to the situation described in the question by people who really don't have a very good understanding of scouting. One of the answers was request that a parent stays on campouts. The kids will listen then All right.

Well, that's a possible solution. But if the youth leaders have to rely on adults to make things happen, they aren't really doing much leading, are they? Another answer was have a punishment. If they don't cooperate, then they don't get rank advancements and they can't come on the next campout.

Yeah, you know, if they get punished. If you punish the scouts who are giving you attitude and not listening, you don't have to worry about the next campout. They're not going to be interested.

Scouting is about positive reinforcement and encouragement, and that's why you know scouting is different. The third answer I saw- that you know was a typical reaction- is separate them into smaller groups, giving each group a difficult task to complete. Each group should not include buddies. The group that is successful first wins a prize.

Well, let me parse that statement a little bit. First of all, the smaller groups. That's what we call patrols. Second of all, you definitely want to have buddies together in a patrol. That's why boys are in scouting. They want to do cool stuff with their friends.

If you rely on prizes or punishments or adults, you're always going to need them. I think learning to actually be a leader is a much better option.

Now, there were some really good answers on Facebook too. One of them was this: This is where scouting is different: Boys lead boys in scouting. In scouting, we teach servant leadership at all levels. Respect can't be commanded, It has to be earned. The patrol method is the plan for earning respect.

And then there was also this answer: Boy scout troops are led by boys, so adults can't tell boys what to do. How can a 14-year-old punish a 10-year-old?

You know it's a learning curve on each side- for the senior patrol leader and the patrol leader and younger scouts. Now some of my listeners and readers jumped in. Brian wrote this. He says I'm a new scoutmaster and we haven't really had any respect issues. But I have noticed a major change in boys when they become patrol leaders. Respect and relationships don't just happen by being in the same room with someone.

They happen by learning together and depending on one another. Walter added: lead from the front. When you're cleaning the latrines at summer camp, the leader had better be the one with the toilet brush. Yeah, you don't just dictate to people, You lead them. You do what they're doing. You work along with them, Always be doing more and always be helping.

If you're sitting on a chair and ordering people around, they'll resent you, not follow you. Help scouts, get their tents set up right, show them how to clean pots et cetera, and you're sure to earn their respect. Larry wrote in from Florida again and he said: I'm headed out tomorrow evening on an eight-mile backpacking trip. There'll be 18 scouts, four of them over 14.. They've spent several weeks preparing, packing, planning, being inspected Friday night. Several things will fail: Someone's pack will be too heavy, someone will have the wrong shoes, it might be raining and someone will forget their poncho.

I'm not going to deal with it because I'm the Scoutmaster. The other adults aren't going to deal with it because I told them not to. Those four youth leaders will deal with it. Believe me, they're not going to get a lot of attitude from the younger scouts because they're going to be helping those scouts solve their problems.

So what kind of problems are you solving for your younger scouts? I've seen a lot of troops. I have never seen a busy, active troop with an attitude problem.

Well said, Larry. Very well said. This is a pretty common concern, a pretty common question. Older scouts get attitude from younger scouts.

They're very unsure of themselves, They don't know how to lead, so they default into a couple of models. They either become the big boss and they holler and carry on and they try and force the younger scouts to respect them, or they just kind of give up and they say, well, we can't really get anywhere with this anyway, so we'll just put in a minimal effort, or the adults all step in and they try and fix a problem.

Well, our job as scout leaders- that is reflected in these wonderful answers that I got from my listeners and readers- is this: to coach and mentor our youth leadership to learn how to earn respect by being a servant leader, by getting in there and helping out, by leading, by doing and by challenging our troops and patrols to solve complex difficulties without being able to fall back on us, and thus begin to discover their own talents as leaders. That's what really really works, That's what's worked for a century and that's what I would recommend to you as a way to address these concerns. Email, that is, folks,

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Hey, before I get into this email, let me tell you that there's going to be a new feature on the blog- and I'll tell you about that when we close- that allows you to make a telephone call, leave a voice message, question or comment that I can then feature on the podcast.

Pretty cool, huh? I'll talk about that in a moment, But this email came in and it says this: love the podcast, keep them coming.

Well, thank you. I've recently taken over the duties as advancement chair for our troop and I and some of the other adult leaders have noticed that our younger scouts have not been advancing along the trail of first class very rapidly.

We have five or six boys just about to finish their second year in scouting and are still second class. Any suggestions how to provide some structure, opportunity, motivation or expectations on rank advancement? We usually have some troop meeting time for scout skills and try to encourage that the boys complete their cooking requirements on our monthly camp outs.

Is there a role in this for patrol leaders? Also, some of the adult leaders are concerned, and I tend to agree, about easy sign-off requirements with a one-time demonstration of the skill as opposed to lasting skill development.

How should we raise expectations for these skills Or should we relax because the boys are having fun? Many thanks, and that comes from Tom in Portland Oregon.

Well, Tom, thanks for the kind words and I do. Thank you for getting in touch. The situation you describe is actually pretty common. It sounds like my troop. There are a couple of perennial concerns reflected in your questions. That's one is scouts not advancing and the other is the quality of their skills.

Scouts do best, in my experience, when they advance at their own speed. You know if everything else is going well, if the scouts are active and happy, I wouldn't go looking for problems As to structure opportunity motivation. Let the scouts provide that for themselves.

I think we only need to stay available and provide a little encouragement. I would ask your patrol leader's council how they think advancement is going.

Do they think that they should spend more time on it? Do they think the scouts are advancing too slowly?

If they see a problem, how are they going to fix it? Now you also note a pretty perennial concern with one-time demonstration requirements.

Well, my answer there is always to read the actual requirements very carefully. Does it say to demonstrate the skill two times?

Does it say to demonstrate them three or four times? You know there's a lot to be learned by carefully reading the requirements for ranks and badges. I've read a lot of old scout literature and I can tell you that these same concerns have been on Scoutmasters' minds for a century. Advancement is a great part of the program, but it's only a part of the program. It's not the whole ball of wax.

So I say all that to simply say that you have already answered your own question. Relax, If the boys stay involved, if they're active and engaged, everything else is just icing on the cake. If they do the things scouts do, they will advance.

And what could be better? You know, Baden Powell did have something to say about this, believe it or not, and he talked about scouts being rewarded not for a particular level of skill or some standardized achievement, but for the amount of effort that they put into it.

And I'll have a link on the blog post that contains this podcast so that you can read that. But thanks, Tom, for listening again and thanks for getting in touch, and I hope that helps.

This has to be the truth, folks, because there is no way anyone could make this up. It's late in the year of 1927, and an 11-year-old boy has just become a boy scout and he learns that he's going to need some things to go scouting, and so he approaches his father and asks for an increase in his allowance so that he can go and purchase the things that he needs.

And his father says: well, I will consider your request because I'd like to see it in writing if you would. So the boy gets a pen and a piece of paper and he sits down and this is what he writes: Chapter 1. My recent allowance is 40 cents. This I used for aeroplanes and other playthings of childhood.

But now I am a scout and I put away my childish things. Before I would spend 20 cents of my 40 cents allowance in five minutes. 50 pockets and nothing to gain and 20 cents to lose. When I am a scout, I have to buy canteens, haversacks, blankets, searchlights, ponchos, things that will last for years and I can always use it.

Well, I can't use a chocolate marshmallow sundae with vanilla ice cream, and so I put in my plea for a raise of 30 cents for me to buy scout things and pay my own way more around. And then he signs his name John Fitzgerald Francis Kennedy, That's right, our 35th president, JFK as a boy scout at 11 years old.

And that comes from a longtime listener, reader and commenter, Walter, who sent that in, and thank you so much, Walter. I hope everybody enjoyed that.