Scoutmaster Podcast 38

And now for you, Scoutmaster.

You know, if you've never been to Alaska, you really need to go one of these days if you can possibly manage them. I mean, it's a stunning place. I remember when I was up there years and years and years ago, we crested this ridge as we were hiking through a park and we looked over and there were four grizzly bears. They were a good distance away, but there were four grizzly bears kind of standing up on their hind legs, looking off into the distance. And my buddy who I was hiking with at the time, he says, wow, I wonder what that's all about. And I said, hmm, bears watching. Bears. Oh, all right. Well, this is podcast number 38. Hey, welcome back to the show. Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clark Green. Here's a couple of emails I wanted to respond to very quickly. Robert from Richmond, Virginia wrote. He said, I wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your podcast. I have a question I'm hoping you can answer. I remember a song that I can't get out of my head. It was something along the lines of he's my all time favorite Boy Scout. They say it over and over again. All time Boy Scout. You're my favorite all time Boy Scout. So that's the one I think you were thinking about. And I wanted to play it at a training session. Well, I sent Robert a link to that song. Thanks, Robert. Phil wrote. You know that every time I hear the opening of your show, I laugh. Well, Phil, you might be on your own there. I'm sure this is Phil. I'm sure you've received all kinds of hate mail to stop telling jokes. I haven't gotten any hate mail yet. But there's always a first time. But I'm saying don't stop. Actually, I'm writing to ask you a favor. Would you possibly have the one about the brains written down in your notes? And if you would do that, would you be willing to send me a copy? I'd love to use it as an opener for our district roundtable. So there was somebody looking for a joke and a song that they wanted to use in a training session or a roundtable. And I'm very happy to lead you to where those are. But you're not allowed to tell them that you got it from me. Please. I might get hate mail. No, it's always nice to hear from everybody. You can contact me at ClarkGreen, C-L-A-R-K-E-G-R-E-E-N, at gmail.com. So this time around in the Scoutmaster podcast, we have an interview. And it's going to take up the entirety of the podcast. It's an interview with Larry Geiger. And Larry is a Scoutmaster down in Cocoa, Florida. Cocoa, Florida. Oh. Kids? Kids, can you turn the TV off? Because I'm trying to record. Yeah. Thank you. Larry's been following the blog and the podcast for a while. And he writes in frequently with comments and things. And I thought it might be a good idea to get him on the internets and interview him. Because it's important for us to hear from other people other than me. Right? I mean, Scouting is a great thing. And there's a lot of people involved with it. It's good to hear success stories from people like Larry and his troop down there in Cocoa, Florida. So we're going to hear that in just a moment. Where does that keep coming from? I thought it was the TV. Hey. Oh, yeah. I Dream of Jeannie. Cocoa, Florida. Cocoa Beach. That's where the show was set. And just in case you didn't make the connection the first time. Yeah. The interview runs for about 20 minutes or so. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed talking with Larry. Hey, here we go. Let's get started, shall we? I'm speaking with Larry Geiger, who is a frequent contributor to the comments on the Scoutmaster blog, a listener to the Scoutmaster podcast, and a scouter. How are you doing tonight, Larry? Doing good. So Cocoa, Florida. You know that Cocoa, Florida, it brings back like I Dream of Jeannie and Cocoa Beach. Am I right? Cocoa Beach is right across the river on the island side, on the Cocoa Beach side. I'm on the mainland. All right. So I have dated myself by mentioning an old television show. And Ron John's Surf Shop. Oh, right. Gives us all some kind of an idea of where you're at. And what troop is it that you work with down there? I'm with troop 720 right now. 720. And about how many fellows in that troop now? 25. And what's your role? I'm the Scoutmaster. Give me an idea of how you ended up doing that. Well, I've been working with a troop for about three years. Pastor asked me to help out. They were a small troop. And so I was helping out. And two years ago in October, the Scoutmaster resigned to take over the district chairmanship. And they asked me. And you said? Okay. Okay. I suppose if nobody else will do it, I'll go ahead and do it. I think that's the way most of us got the job there. Well, I've been Scoutmaster for 10 years in another troop. Aha. And I had retired from that and done some other stuff. And so here I am back. As a Scoutmaster, what are your biggest challenges? Well, the biggest challenge, obviously, is the one we all have, which is leadership. We kind of have an idea in our mind where we want the older Scouts to go with teaching and training and actually being the leaders, the patrol leaders and the SPL. And so sometimes we have a picture where we think that ought to go and they don't go there. But we keep working on that. And sometimes it turns out really, really well. So you've been at this with this troop and another one for about 13 years. Yes. What changed between year one and year 13 in the way that you approached being a Scoutmaster? I think the main thing is confidence in the program. When you're a young leader, I think if you've got a lot of ideas, part of that is wanting to change things. And I like what Ask Andy says. He constantly goes back to read the manual, read the book. Right. He says that over and over again. Well, as you do. You know, read the program. And after a while, you begin to figure out that that is what works. I get a lot of feedback and comments from people who are kind of in those first three or four years of working with Scouting. And they get really frustrated with the picture of the program as it's represented in training and in a lot of the literature and things. And the reality of what they're actually dealing with. You're telling me the longer you go on, the more you trust that that's sound and solid. Yes, absolutely. Over the time you've spent as Scoutmaster, do you see the same problems all the time? Pretty much. It's bringing the young guys up through the program, getting them to first class, and then turning them back around to look back and to bring the new younger guys up. I mean, that's what you're doing, cycling through that over and over again. And as certain groups move out of your troop, you know, as they get up to 16, 17 years old, sometimes if you don't have the filler in the middle, if you've lost that for whatever reason, the guys came in but they didn't stay or you had a bad recruiting year, then you're back to a bunch of young guys. And it cycles, you're right, it cycles like that. What would you consider to be the most important elements to have as a Scout leader to ensure the success of your Scouts? The first thing is I'm not in charge. I'm not in charge of anything. Maybe I'm in charge of training the SPL, but that's it, nothing else. The patrol leaders are in charge of everything the committee doesn't do. The committee chairman is in charge of all the business. You know, basically it's about the patrol leaders. The second thing that I've learned is scouting does not happen in meetings. I tell people, particularly new parents over and over again, it happens out there. Actually, what happens in the meetings is not very important to some extent. And some people are going to start to quiver when I say something like that. I am not quivering at all, by the way. Okay. It happens out in the woods. It happens on the camp out. And that's where scouting really, really happens. Now, they need the meetings. But, you know, football doesn't happen in the locker room. It happens out on the field. Right. I'll say this. Boy Scouts are almost universally unable to run a great scout meeting. You know, a 14-year-old kid is just not quite ready to run what a lot of adults would consider an ideal meeting. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But that scares a lot of people. You mentioned one of my favorite words, which is chaos. And to me, chaos is bad. Energy is good. Noise is good. Chaos is bad. So basically, as a leader, it's our job to put a lid on the chaos. Now, what does that mean then? Signs of chaos, hazing, bullying, no uniforms, sloppy uniforms, lack of advancements, lack of older scouts working with younger kids. And then things that bring that about, lack of training, lack of skill development, selfishness, laziness, lack of direction, all the things that describe boys sometimes. Right. But the energy and the noise, we had a fairly noisy meeting Tuesday night. And it's amazing to me how quiet it can be on a camp out, even when they're kind of around a campfire. And yet in the meeting, it sounds like they're all nuts. Yeah. Actually, I never thought of it that way. But you're right. That's a very interesting juxtaposition. Yeah. And then there's the leadership. We're running an experiment. Uh-huh. We create an environment where they can practice leadership. And I guess this is the key to it. I tell my guys over and over and over again. I tell the leaders in the troop, what's your job? And they say, well, SPL or I'm supposed to do this. No, your job is to lead, train, and inspire scouts to attain first class rank. Uh-huh. And after a while, if you came to my troop meeting and asked my older scouts, they would just right off the bat say, my job is to lead, train, and inspire. And then I ask, well, I say, okay, if you're in charge of their advancement, then who's in charge of Star Life and Eagle advancement? Uh-huh. They kind of look at me the first couple times. And then I tell them, well, you are. You're in charge of your own Star Life and Eagle. And then they kind of look around and go, wait, I'm in charge of everything. Uh-huh. Da-da. Bingo. Bingo. Yeah. And that's how it works. That's – I just keep saying that. And some of them get it. Now, this troop that you're working with now, when you took it on three years ago, it's three years, right? Two years. Two years ago. Okay. Was it operating the way that you wanted it to operate? No. The previous leaders had a bit of frustration because of what we just talked about. Uh-huh. Um-huh. The – some of what was going on, they just didn't feel like they were getting to where they wanted to go. Uh-huh. It wasn't quiet. It wasn't a classroom. It wasn't – and I think after a while that kind of frustrated them. And I guess – I don't know. I'm one of those people that I have a very – the noise and all the other stuff, you know, it doesn't bother me. Well – I have very high tolerance for just the energy. From an adult perspective, things look noisy and chaotic and crazy. And from a boy perspective, they look just about right. Right. Exactly. So you described when you take – took over this troop, some frustrated leadership who had maybe a different vision and a picture of scouting than their scouts did. Because there's another 20 guys listening to us right now who are doing exactly what you did two years ago. Got some really great ideas. They've been asked to be a scoutmaster. And they step into the middle of a situation that's not optimal. It might not be falling apart. They really want to make some changes and do some things. You've got their ear now, Larry. Tell them what to do. Well, it's not exactly by the book. But I found a venue down in Sebastian, a restaurant that had a really nice conference meeting, conference room. And I planned a day of training. And like I said, what I try to do is treat the guys like CEOs and vice presidents. I want a really nice room. I want a nice lunch. I want projectors. I want sound. We sat down and we talked about lead, train, and inspire 14 times and a bunch of other stuff. And we told them what the committee's job was and told them that here it is. It's yours. So in May, we have an annual planning conference. And we have a schedule October through the next July, including where we're going to go to camp, every month's campout, every program. They need a structure. Just kind of flailing from month to month doesn't build that kind of leadership that you want. When they know that in January and February we're going backpacking, they know that in December for a meeting and one or two meetings in January, they've got to teach the new guys how to backpack. And it's in the calendar. We're going to do it. We're going because we don't change our calendar very often. In the last two years, we've changed one date by a week. But they know it's coming. And there's a schedule pressure there that they can understand. They know by that Tuesday night before the campout, if they've got kids that aren't ready, there's going to be problems. They make the schedule, and then I keep giving it back to them. Guys, are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? And boys tend to be lazy. They tend to wait until the last minute. They tend to procrastinate. Yeah. But when they know it's coming, they've got to be ready. You know, they do think about it, and they do get ready, and they do learn from not being prepared. And then my next question to you was, now, do you let them forget to plan? Oh, yeah. They do it every week to some extent. In August, the committee approves the plan. The SPL comes in, and the patrol leaders, they present it to the committee. Everybody in the troop knows what's coming up. Scouting for food, campouts. You know, nobody can come back and say, wait. You know, I hand out schedules all year round. I keep a pile of 30 of them in my notebook, and I just hand them out to people all the time. So there's no communication issue about, you know, hey, we didn't know. And then each month, the program revolves around that. Now, they know that, well, here it is, August, September, I'm underfoot. December, I'm second class. Maybe by May, I'll be first class or almost done. And the scouts have those goals in their book. And, you know, they're pushing the older scouts a little bit. And the older scouts are pushing them a little bit. And it's not how I would do it, but it's kind of happening. They don't do it the way that you would do it. No. How does a person keep that from just driving them absolutely up a wall? Oh, well, it doesn't bother me that much. Like I said, I like the energy. I have a lot of investment in them doing it. It's really, really important for me that they grow into men through this process and that they do it. But it's not how I or my committee chairman or, you know, some of the other leaders, not how we would run the meeting. You know, they run over the sections of the meeting. You know, it's supposed to be 20 minutes for this. And they go 30 or they go three. And then they go play a game. And, you know, I mean, it's a lot more random, energetic, loud. Right. Well, that takes, I mean, that takes tremendous patience. It takes a little bit, yes. Let me make a guess. The patience comes from a confidence in the program, the way that scouts respond to it. Yes. And you've gotten to see the outcome a few times in the past. Now, that helps a lot. Yeah. And you have to have some kind of memory. I have a scout. His name's Paul. Paul hiked the entire Appalachian Trail in a season. Paul was a little tiny 11-year-old, almost quit after his first camp out. We almost killed him. Not really. But it was very wet, very cold. It was a backpacking trip. And he was a very small 11-year-old. But, you know, he used to run around, make a lot of noise. You know, he's now got a family with three kids. He's a successful guy thriving on his own. And he's gone from dependence to independence. Mm-hmm. And every once in a while, I have to look around the room and picture that kid at 28. I want my guys to be grown, to have families, to be independent, and to achieve the things in life that they want. I really, really, truly believe scouting can help a lot of guys get there. I've seen it. I want my wife to receive a lot of wedding and baby shower invitations. You know, I could talk about, you know, 38 Eagle Scouts and what they're doing now and where they've gone in their lives. And my wife has gotten a lot of wedding invitations and shower invitations. And you have to look at the guys in the room right now that are 11 and 12 years old that are, at that very second, running around totally nuts and project that. And I guess with time, it does become a little bit easier. Was there a point where you doubted whether or not this was actually going to work? I think early on, yeah, there were times, I know, I guess to some extent, not totally because it worked for me. I joined scouting on my 11th birthday. And from that day on, almost every single week, I was at a scout meeting until my 18th birthday. So I went to college and almost every month for seven years, I was camping. And I know what that meant to me. And so I knew that was going to mean the same thing to some of the guys. It has been surprising sometimes the guys that I didn't think it was going to mean anything to, and it has. Yeah. So I have more confidence now that that's true for more guys than I would have guessed a while back. You know that the program works, but you can't really predict exactly how it's all going to come out. What happens in those seven years is really, truly amazing in a boy's life, a young man's life. It's, for most guys, it's a very, very large change. They're mommy's little boy, and they're almost a man at the other end. What do you see happening within the next three or four years within your troop and your work as a scout leader? Well, I've got all these little guys, and I've got a group of about four or five older scouts. And I'm kind of in a hurry to get these guys up to first class because I need some leaders because I've got a whole bunch of more Weeblos, maybe another 15 to 20. Wow. So we could grow again another couple of patrols. So I need some first class scouts to be ready to take on their leadership roles and start working on their Star Life and Eagle, which includes that requirement for leadership, which is lead, train, and inspire scouts to first class. Wait, did I say it again? I'm sorry. You have a pretty good – I mean, you answered that question very readily. You have a long view. You're looking three and four moves ahead and seeing what's going to happen. What might happen. Well, what could happen, right. What might happen, you know. I think that couples into this kind of formula for success is having that longer view and being able to look past what's happening at a troop meeting or on a campout or something like that. Well, another thing I do is every two years I like to have a Hyatt venture trip. I've told the current senior patrol leader I'm kind of looking for him when he's done to start a venture patrol. Mm-hmm. I've said in their minds summer 2012, I don't tell them what to do, but I'll give them ideas. You know, I'm not telling them what to do or even when to do it, but I'll tell them some opportunities that – you know, some ideas if they can't think of anything. There's got to be some kind of reciprocal initiative on their part for this to happen. Right. Well, they're going to have to put it together. Exactly what does that mean? Well, they'll have to make the phone calls. They'll have to start meeting once a month, make a schedule. They'll have to have a planning conference and put together a schedule, when they're going to meet, when the venture patrol is going to meet, how much money do they need. You know, they'll have to lay all that out, and that's what they did. Now, eventually it comes down to somebody writing a check from the committee or using a credit card. I mean, you know, and then somebody has to actually drive, you know, there's a point at which, you know, they can't go past. They're actually putting the thing together. That's up to them. My experience has been is once a group of scouts do actually put something together, then it becomes more of a self-perpetuating thing. It takes on a life of its own. Yes. And the next group says, well, we want to do that, too. Right. And they've got a bit of a path to follow. It's just that bushwhacking in the first time around that can be a little bit of work. I don't think guys like or appreciate people that aren't sure where they're going or what they're doing. And I think that, you know, latching on to the program and finding areas to be very, very consistent can do a lot for you. I just think that's very, very important. Trying to listen to everybody and make changes based on what every scout or every committee member says. Don't go there. Decide what the program is and then do it. Now, that doesn't mean you can't take suggestions. I'm not saying that. But if you're spending a lot of time waffling, listening to a lot of people, things are confused, I think you just need to figure it out and get consistent. And I see some of that. And then another thing successful is emphasize the scout oath and the scout law. Every opportunity. Scout Master Minute, conferences, courts of honor. You should be saying, you know, trustworthy, loyal, helpful, da-da-da-da-da. You should be saying that every week. Every camp out. Somewhere that should come up all the time. Explain scouting to somebody who's just taken over a leadership position. I tell any new parent, any new person coming in the troop. There's three people in charge of the troop. The SPL, me, and the committee chairman. And we do everything. The three of us are responsible for every single thing that happens. The point is, is that you're there to serve. So start off serving everything. And let people come in and find out where they want to serve. Now, assistant scout masters are slightly different. If you're going to come do that, you've got to go get trained. What value do you put on training? For Boy Scout leaders, scout masters, and assistant scout masters, up to IOLS, it's absolutely essential. They have to do all the online stuff. They have to go to scout master training. And they have to take the outdoor leadership training. Preferably in the first year they're there. Get all of that done. That's vitally important. Let's say I'm interested in being a scout leader, but I'm a little skeptical about the training. And I'm wondering if it's going to be worth my time. Give me, sell me on it. Why is it worth my time? The training helps you to learn about the program from multiple people. And they need to find out what scouting is all about. They need to meet the district executive. They need to know there's a council out there. And they just kind of need to get a feel for all of that. It gives them perspective. And then they get to also understand the network of assistants that's there for them. It just doesn't begin and end with a unit. And interact with the other students in the classes. I think that's very, very valuable. Tell me what your most memorable scouting moment is. It's kind of two moments. When I was 14 years old, I think I was about almost 15, I remember standing in the pouring down rain on top of Thunderhead Mountain in the middle of Smoky Mountains National Park. We were a little less than 30 miles into a 50-miler hike that we had totally underestimated. And we had to make some decisions. So we decided to hike off the mountain. And it ended up being a great trip. But there's always that little bit of disappointment that you didn't quite make the 50-miler. Well, the other part of that is in 1991, we planned a 50-miler in the Appalachian Trail. I came up the last of the trail, the last half a mile coming up Roan Mountain from the south is very vertical. My son Christopher was at the top of the hill. He was the kids. The mooses were way ahead of us old guys. But I just remember that picture very vividly in my mind, stepping up to the last little step onto the flats and thinking, you know, I finally finished that 50-miler. Wow. And I did it with my son Christopher. To me, that was just really cool. A lot of things came out of that over the years. But finishing that with Christopher was a real high point. I think everybody's most memorable moment in scouting involves rain or thunder or wind or, you know, it's the other 100 campouts that you go on that are nice and sunny and bright. They just all seem to mold together. It's the ones that put some challenge in front of you that are really memorable. That's – you remember those. There's another memory I have that's happened multiple times. Quite a few times I've had moms come up to me and tell me after summer camp, three weeks ago my son was a boy. The last week there's another man in my house. Uh-huh. They're just totally blown away. It is amazing. When they tell me that, I just – I don't know. It's just a really cool thing. Makes it worth it. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Makes all the rain and the wind and the – yeah. I sure do appreciate you talking with me, Larry. I think any time people can talk scouting and encourage others as they're meeting the same challenges that we all do, that it's a great encouragement to them. So – You know, I don't know whether you think about it or not, but you are on the cutting edge. You know, this is a whole new thing and you are – you know, you're right out there in front of it. And I think experienced people like yourself, just as an example, need to be out there, you know, saying what you're saying. I appreciate your encouragement and it's been a good time talking to you. It's winter – My wife wants to listen to it. She doesn't get to hear you enough. She's like, what is this all about? What is this all about? Well, this is – it's terribly important. It's an international thing, you know. So – at least that's what I tell my wife. Okay. She still doesn't really believe me, but – So, once again, thanks very much, Larry, and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. Okay. Okay. Well, thanks for listening to this edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast. You can read the Scoutmaster blog at scoutmaster.typepad.com. And you can follow us at Scoutmaster Blog on Facebook and ScoutmasterCG on Twitter. Subscribe to the Scoutmaster Podcast on iTunes. And when you do, feel free to leave a comment or a review or a rating. You can email me, Clark Green, with your comments and questions at ClarkGreen at gmail.com. C-L-A-R-K-E-G-R-E-E-N at gmail.com. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Scoutmaster Blog and the Scoutmaster Podcast are not official publications of the Boy Scouts of America, nor are they endorsed or sponsored by the Boy Scouts of America. Nope. It's just me talking into a microphone and trying to lend a hand to scout leaders and perhaps have a little bit of fun along the way. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And as we like to do before we go, let's hear from our founder. Hey, Sir Robert, what have you to tell us this time? Good luck to you and good camping. Why, thank you, Sir Robert. And thanks again for listening. Until next time. Wait, ask us. Thank you.