Scoutmaster Podcast 367

And now it's the old Scoutmaster. Even this late in the winter, even in March, it's been cold.

It's been so cold- if we had a longer thermometer we would have frozen to death. If it's been so cold, we were out camping, boiled a pot of water on the fire, put it aside.

It froze so fast. It was still a little warm.

It was so cold that when you would speak your words would freeze in mid-air and you'd have to throw them in a frying pan to have a conversation. That's the way it goes, folks.

This is podcast number 367.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. We're arriving at the end of our fundamental series and I have appreciated your feedback along the way.

Our discussion today turned out to be, well, not terribly long, but fairly long, And I think we should just jump right into it. So let's get started, shall we?

This discussion today of engaging scouts in leadership is, as they say, the penultimate installment of our foundation series, And I'm going to wrap that up next time around with a discussion of constructive discipline. Now, to hear most scouts talk about it, a youth-led troop is kind of the brass ring of scouting, And as much as this is talked about and sought after.

I have to ask exactly the same questions that we've been asking for the past couple of podcasts: Why is youth leadership even there? And then, why is it important?

How do we get there? And both of those questions are reasonably easy to answer.

Why should scouting be youth-led? Why should youth engage in leadership?

Why not just have adults do the whole thing? Why not just prepare and present a program of activities to them? If we're accepting the premise that scouting is a game, part of playing the game is actually playing the game.

Otherwise, all the coaches would be out on the court during the basketball game just kind of pointing the way for a player to go right, Say: okay, will you dribble over here, pass to him. It would take away the teamwork aspect of the game. It would take away the strategic aspect of the game and the thinking aspect of it. As for how this is supposed to function, that's what we're going to talk about here. But basically it functions by scouts actually just leading. It's that simple And in my experience there is a lot of misunderstanding and confusion about this particular subject and nearly any other aspect of scouting.

I think a lot of times it's mishandled, It gets misinterpreted and misunderstood, But you'll be happy to know that it's actually very, very simple And if you've been following this series, you won't be surprised when I say engaging youth in leadership is really really simple, direct and uncomplicated. But like most easy, simple things, it's also endlessly complex, in a way, when you start to work with it. Somewhere along in this series, I've definitely alluded to the idea that scouting is kind of like playing golf or fly fishing or something like that.

It's something you can learn how to do in a couple of hours and then spend the rest of your life perfecting your technique. I'm going to include a few techniques here, but basically we're going to be talking in big ideas today. In connection with all of the other things that we've been saying in this series, let me begin by saying this: your goal as a scouter is not building leadership skills or creating leaders. Our main aim, our main goal, is what It's: developing character by applying the patrol method. If we focus on building leaders and leadership skills, we're going to miss the point. If we focus on building character, we're going to build leaders.

You can't help it. So if you think the main point of scouting is training and building a certain kind of leader. You need to stop and refocus.

You're approaching this from a skewed perspective, So follow my lead for a moment. Look at the simple promise in the Scout Oath to help other people at all times, because that's where anything like leadership begins: helping other people at all times. If you think about it- the Scout Oath and Law- that's as close as it gets to saying anything about leadership at all. The Scout Oath describes our commitment to others in this way, and the Scout Law gives us a set of ideals to strive towards, and these are the things that constitute a person of character who is able to provide service by leading others. And once you start to see the oath and the law as a definition of leadership, things begin to open up, because to be a Scout is to be a leader. Every Scout is a leader and they lead all the time.

Now, if that sounds impossible or improbable to you, you have a certain view or definition of leadership that I'm going to help you try to change. If we limit our definition of leadership to being in charge and directing others, we'll miss 75% of what leadership actually is, because there are really four kinds of leadership. The first one is that you lead yourself, You look after yourself. You make sure that you're prepared, rested and ready to do whatever it is you're going to be doing. The second kind of leadership is really cooperative following. You're supporting the leadership of others by cooperatively following along, being a part of a team.

The third kind of leadership is helping others, because if you don't do the first two kinds, you're not going to be able to help anybody. And the fourth kind of leadership, and the one that we get kind of enthralled with, is that kind of directive leadership, decision-making and directing.

Now, some situations demand a specific kind of leadership, yet all four ways are equal in importance And in many situations we're all four kinds of leader at once. So if you want to help your scouts build the skills of leadership, we have to start with the attitudes and perspectives that inspire us towards that. By helping other people, the promises in the oath, the ideals of the law, create a strong sense of duty, responsibility and resolve aimed at serving others, which is the ultimate definition of what a leader is.

So when you go and you look at your scouts, being a leader is not something that they will become someday in the future. They are doing that right now And this is like the key. This is the key to changing your perspective. If you don't believe me: observe, watch them and start to identify the ways that they are employing one of those four kinds of leadership.

So leadership is not something granted to certain older scouts, or power and privilege. It's about service. Scout leadership is not defined by organizational job descriptions and patches and charts. Scout leadership is not a structure of power and privilege. If you are a scout, you simply can't avoid learning the lessons of leadership all the time.

So the first big step for us as scouts is kind of dismissing our idea of what we think leadership ought to be and recognizing all of these leadership qualities in our scouts and see them as they develop. So let's focus on engaging our scouts in directive leadership.

How do we support them leading their troop or their den or their crew? Now, if you're thinking in terms of a cadre of scouts sitting around a paper-filled table, you know, discussing options and making plans, then that's a very limited perspective. Put that particular vision out of your head. We'd like to think that what our scouts do and how they do it defines being youth led. But it doesn't. Young people lead themselves all the time.

It comes very naturally to them and you might not see it if you don't look for it, but it's there. What you are going to do as a scouter is recognize that they are already practicing leadership and build on it.

So scouts have the satisfaction and character-building experience of leading their own troop. So engaging scouts in leadership is really very simple. You let them lead. Developing leadership skill is equally simple. You let them lead. And when you let them lead, they begin to develop some skill.

Training leaders is not the same as developing leaders. Everybody ought to stop training leaders and start developing that. I can explain what I mean by that by going back to the game analogy.

How did you learn to shoot a basketball, if you ever did? Well, you can learn some things by watching somebody else shoot a basketball, but you don't begin developing the skill until you stand in front of the hoop and throw the ball. Training is one kind of thing- And I'm not saying that training is totally useless. It just has a very limited benefits, because training is mostly sitting and listening. Developing is doing, And developing is a heck of a lot more fun because you're doing something.

So I'm going to see if I can avoid that. So I'm going to go back to the game analogy. I'm going to go back to the game analogy.

I'm doing something, So I'm going to see if I can avoid climbing up on the soapbox at this particular moment. But let me say this: In scouting we're just enthralled with leadership training because it is only partially effective. We train leaders in scouting using methods adapted from corporate training, from military training, from academic kind of training, And these methods are boring. They're limited in scope. They're boring.

Did I already say boring? Yeah, They are incredibly boring. They're not active and engaged. These methods tend to front load the whole process with lots of information, lots of papers, rules, policies, procedures and scouts developing leadership don't need information. What they need is they need experience. They need to have the ball in their hands and start shooting at the hoop.

So we show them how to shoot, we watch them shoot, we ask them questions about things, and then we watch some more, And they will begin to gain the skill by repetition, and repetition is experienced. So development developing is an incremental process with a lot of small steps along the way.

What we need to do is learn to recognize each step and respond to it by encouraging the next step, And one way to begin doing that is, by taking your binder full of helpful forms and outlines and job descriptions and definitions and all the other trappings of the corporate world and the military world and the academic world and putting them on the shelf and start watching your scouts lead, Because no matter what's going on, no matter where you are, no matter what your scouts are used to, they are leading. You need to find it and then begin incrementally building on that leadership that is already there and you will help them develop and direct their skills in a useful manner.

And the way that you do that is letting them lead, and they can't lead if you're leading, so you kind of have to step away from the picture and let them go at it. You're thinking about that and you're going: okay, that will just be total, utter chaos because I can't. I just don't think I can let them do that.

Well, of course it's going to be sort of total, utter chaos, but it's not going to be that bad because you're going to be stepping in to fix things when the whole train is in danger of going off the rails. Your role in developing leadership is responding to the skill level of your scouts. In the same way a coach developing a game related skill develops skill in their players by responding to their skill level. Your role in developing leadership is responsive. You see nascent skills and you see scouts practicing leadership and you respond to wherever they are.

Now that means you may be directing and leading things as they begin to learn more what that's all about, and that's absolutely fine, because you may have to take some time modeling the skill that you want to see developed. You may end up leading some troop and patrol meetings or some parts of those meetings- Perfectly acceptable thing to do, so long as it is a means to an end and not just standard operating procedure.

So how do you do that? There are two concepts that I think will help and it's a balancing act, and this is balancing direction versus coercion and shared responsibility versus autonomy.

Let's talk about direction versus coercion. Scouts are largely directed by the game itself. The game has rules, A game has policies and procedures and scouts are largely directed by that. You help them understand the boundaries and rules of the game. They're not starting with a blank slate, They have a field of play.

So that's direction, and don't be afraid to direct your scouts, because that's not being overly coercive, That's not interfering with them or anything, as long as it's not standard operating procedure. They need some direction from you as they learn these skills and that scale begins to shift as they get more adept at it. In an ideal situation, you direct less and less as they direct more.

So this is a process. This is not throwing a switch and going from being adult led to being youth led. No, this is a process.

And how long will that process take? I have no idea. I don't know your scouts and I don't know you, But it takes a while.

And while we're talking about direction and coercion, we should understand that being youth led does not mean that the youth make all the decisions and define everything. I mean, every once in a while, I'll hear something like this: We don't have patrols because the scouts voted on it. They decided they didn't want them and we're youth led.

So you know, like what are we going to do? They voted on it, We don't particularly like it, But oh well.

Well, the thing you're going to do is be an adult, Okay, And you're going to direct them and say, no, you can't decide that, I'm afraid You know. I mean, imagine a basketball game where the players just start carrying the ball rather than dribbling the ball.

And you ask: you know their coach? You say, hey, wait a minute, Why are they carrying the ball?

And the coach tells you: well, you know, we're a youth led organization and the players all decided they'd rather play this way. That doesn't work. That's not the game. Just like any other game, scouting has limitations and definitions. We all play the game within those definitions and limitations. The players don't reinvent the game.

So we're talking about direction and coercion, and coercion is kind of a form of direction, but it's not the form you want to employ. Coercion is trying to convince somebody else to make a decision, the way that you want them to make the decision. For our purposes here, Let's use that as a definition.

Well, don't do that. Don't pity pad around trying to convince scouts that this is a good idea or that's a good idea, And because you don't want to interfere with their autonomy, you're powerless to do anything about making them make that particular decision, But you're going to coerce them, which is even worse.

I think if you need something to happen, if you are the adult with the greater amount of experience and foresight, then your scouts and you believe that a certain course of action should be followed. Don't pity pad around about trying it to convince scouts direct them. You can explain your directions. They may like it, They may not, but you can explain in a way that they will understand it in the context of the overall definitions and limitations of the game. And once they understand the reason for that direction, they'll build it into their own experience and use it as a way to direct themselves in the future.

Like I said, engaging youth and leadership is not like throwing a switch and turning on autopilot and then taking a nap. It's more like maybe cruise control right, Turn on cruise control but you don't leave the driver seat.

You keep your hands on the wheel and you steer and you're aware of what's going on around you and you might even need to hit the brake now and again. You don't give all of your autonomy and decision-making power to the car. I hear from scouts who tell me they hope their youth leaders will decide this or that or they aren't happy with the activities they decided to do, but they don't want to interfere or take away the scouts' autonomy and they ask me what to do next. And a lot of times they try to coerce a certain decision and they're kind of disappointed that they didn't succeed. And when they ask me what to do in those situations, I tell them.

I said you know, direct your scouts to do things you want them to do. You are an adult, You are in the situation for a reason, And if you want them to do a certain thing in a certain way, tell them that. And that brings me to the idea of shared responsibility versus autonomy.

For some reason, we have the idea that only truly youth-led troop is one where the scouts have complete autonomy and make all the decisions, And there may be times when scouts can make all the decisions about a given thing, but it's definitely not all the time. You can't sit them down with a blank sheet of paper and tell them to make a plan. Your responsibility as a scouter is defining the expectations and the parameters of the plan that they will create, And this defines what autonomous decisions then they are able to make.

Now, inevitably, because of their laugh of experience, they will make some poor decisions that cause a little trouble, And you can let these poor decisions that cause a little trouble play out as a learning experience. As long as you're not playing gotcha- and I told you so- It's a valuable process, but it's only valuable if the trouble created has commenced for it with the lesson learned.

What I mean by that is: you don't want to have an expectation where the scouts are so autonomous they can decide anything and get themselves into real trouble. You want their autonomy to be defined by: A- the rules of the game, our policies and procedures, and B- the safety of themselves and their fellow scouts.

I mean, every so often I hear a story that is something like this: right, We were off on a hike and we reached a turn in the trail and we allowed the scouts to figure out which way to go and they made the wrong turn. And two miles later they got to the next turn and they figured out they were in the wrong place.

So we had to turn around and go back and we got into camp kind of late and everybody was miserable. But it was an important lesson for them, right?

Well, no, it was just kind of miserable because that lesson could have been learned a lot quicker and without such drama if you directed the scouts a few feet past the wrong turn that they made and say: okay, you made a wrong turn, let's look at the map again and let's find out why I mean. Remember, you are an adult and your scouts are not. They do not have the perspective and experience to make every decision.

Well, nor should they be required to make every decision, because we have shared responsibility. Your responsibility is not to expose your scouts to undue drama or risk or improper things. Their responsibility is to learn and develop the skills of leadership. That's a shared responsibility. We're all in this together.

We have shared responsibility. Another frequent complaint I get from scouts is: I just can't get the youth leaders to plan. They kind of sit there and look at me like a dog with a new pan. They don't come up with any ideas. They don't want to lead. I have the same answer for you.

You're the adult. Share the responsibility of planning commensurate with the skill and experience of your scouts. Most often you're going step by step and every once in a while there's a giant leap, but that's not always happening. Step by step.

Well, you guys need to come up with a plan, but what in the world does that mean? Scouts are not very good at that because they don't have a vast amount of experience and they don't understand the implications of their choices. You are the adult. You have more experience and have a better understanding of the implications of the choices that are going to be made.

So lend them some direction. So there's another aspect of this: with direction, coercion, shared responsibility and autonomy. I can illustrate this by using the basketball analogy for a moment. If I put a bunch of people who've never played basketball and never even saw the game on a basketball court and I explain the rules to them and I tell them to play the game, they're going to make plenty of mistakes.

Now it would be foolish for me to get angry or upset or frustrated with them, because they are learning the game. They have no basis of skill to go on. They have no basis of experience to go on. They just know what I've told them. They're doing their best and I need to help them develop those skills. Imagine if I did get angry or upset with them and my frustration grew over time At some point.

I would not like these people very much. And this same thing happens when, okay, let's say, you send your scouts off to some training event. They come back, you sit them around the table and tell them to make plans and lead, and they only have the slightest idea of what you're talking about and they're all going to make a lot of mistakes.

You go frustrated with this because they're not learning quite as quick as you hope they would, or you just assume they didn't pay attention at the training event and you grow frustrated and eventually you're not going to like them very much and that frustration is going to feed on itself until you conclude that they're not able to do what you want them to do and so you're going to start doing it instead and kind of all the energy drains out of the program. And this happens all the time. It's a very common thing to have happen, and most of the time it happens because the scouts involved are aimed at being able to go to summer camp next summer and say they have a boy led troop, when what they really need to do is aim at developing character. Understand that scouts are leading anyway. Observe their scouts and start building, step by step, upon the leadership skills that they already have. And the foundational ideas are very, very simple.

You'll spend a lifetime learning how to apply them, but they're very, very simple. They'll help you avoid situations like that.

So let's go back and review them for a moment. Remember your aim is not developing leaders, is developing character and young people through the patrol method and constantly referencing the scout oath and law. In that context, Leadership is only a skill. It's one of the many skills required to make this whole process happen. It's a means to an end and not an end in itself.

Let's remember that every scout comes to us with some leadership capability in one of four ways: They're able to lead themselves, they're able to follow cooperatively, they're able to help other people at all times and then they're able to direct and decide about the activities for their troop and patrol. So when we begin with that premise and we start looking for leadership, then we have something we can develop as a skill. Training leaders is not the same as developing leaders. Let's stop training them and start developing them. To develop leaders, you balance direction versus coercion and shared responsibility versus autonomy. The concept really is just that simple.

The practice, oh. It's a lot more complicated and it's great fun and it's very worthy work to do, because as you go through this process aimed at developing character, by constantly referencing the ideals in the scout oath and law, by applying the patrol method, you will see leadership skills begin to develop. It's important to notice them, it's important to nurture them as they go along and have a realistic expectation and a way of responding to the skill level of your scouts. You won't make a skilled directive leader overnight, but it'll happen a lot quicker than you think. And when scouts are given the opportunity to lead- remember if you want them to be leaders, you got to let them lead. When they're given that opportunity, in spite of the mistakes they make and the difficulties they will encounter, you will be absolutely amazed at what they are capable of doing