Scoutmaster Podcast 345

I'm Dustin Tardiddy and I'm a Cub Master with Pac-65 in Haddingfield, New Jersey. This edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast is sponsored by backers like me.

And now for you, Scoutmaster. People often ask me how many Scouts are in my troop, and it's a little bit more difficult to answer than you might think, Because on paper we have 36, but when we round them up we get 40..

Round them up, okay, Think about it for a moment. Yes, that's right. Hey, this is podcast number 345.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's go to the mailbag.

Craig Dixon got in touch and said: listening to your idea about the quarterly program plan, today, one question occurred to me. You say you basically make patrols based on who's going on a given quarter's trips, And I should insert here this is something we discussed in the last podcast. You really have to go back and listen to that before you understand the answer to this question.

But, assuming that you have back to what Craig was asking, what do you do if Scouts can't or won't go on a quarter's trips? How do you assign them to patrols?

Well, Craig, that's a great question. And first I want to make sure that everybody understands we haven't really made much in the way of changes to patrols based on attendance.

It's something that we can do, but we found that we didn't really have to do that much. Over the past three quarters since we implemented this whole idea, I think there's maybe been one or two changes and maybe one kind of total reset. But to tell you the truth, when they get done- looking at this- the patrol leaders council- they haven't changed the way patrols are made up significantly.

The question that you asked is what if Scouts can't or won't be going on the trips in that quarter? What do we do as far as their patrol assignment? Nothing really. They're still in a patrol.

It's no big deal whether they're going to make that quarter's trips or not And so far we've been fortunate that the way the patrols are constituted, there's a critical mass of them going on the three trips by the time we have that quarterly permission slip turned in. So not much changes from the Scouts perspective as far as this is concerned.

Last week, in addition to the podcast, I posted an article that I wrote about junior assistant Scoutmasters and got lots of replies once I put that article on Facebook, Heard from Earl Bonovich who said: one of my junior assistant Scoutmasters- we have two- has been assigned to work with True Troop Guides as a team. They're working together to get our 14 new Scouts acclimated and moving along. It has given the scout in this role an opportunity to grow and given me the opportunity to continue focusing on working on enhancing our youth leadership team. Doug Royer said I was a junior assistant Scoutmaster in the 70s. It was cool. I could help wherever needed, Had less predefined responsibility and I really enjoyed it.

Bo Hunt said my junior assistant Scoutmaster works with the troop and patrol guys, filled in for patrol instructor when needed tests and signs off books along with the assistant Scoutmasters, etc. So if you haven't had a chance to read the article about what is a junior assistant Scoutmaster and some of my recent thinking around that and how I am currently working with a cadre of junior assistant Scoutmasters in our troop, take a look at that article And I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. Hey, if you've been listening for a little while, you have heard a couple of podcasts where I was able to talk with two of my old Scouts, Bucky and Wade, who are through hiking the Appalachian Trail this year and they're featured in a YouTube video that you ought to take a look at. I'll have a link to it in the podcast notes And, yes, I will be checking in again with them soon and we'll try and get them on the podcast again soon.

What are you doing Tuesday morning? If you don't have anything better to do, come on over to scoutmastercgcom. We start about eight o'clock with a live chat session where you can just check in and say hello. You can ask questions.

We talk about serious stuff and not so serious stuff. This past week S Vessel, who's the committee chair for Sea Scouts ship 911 in central Texas, checked in, as did Carl Cook, who is an old buddy, but I don't think he's been on the chat before. Carl correct me if I'm wrong, And he's a scout leader with First Portland Scouts in New South Wales, Australia, and is the husband of Best Cook, who's a girl guide leader, who took the opportunity to check in with us during the chat session as well. Jim Smith is a troop committee member and an assistant tiger den leader, who also checked in on the chat for the first time this week. Keep an eye on the Facebook feed and the Twitter feed. We'll make an announcement when the live chat is up.

Go to scoutmastercgcom- It's Tuesday morning, starting about 8 am Eastern time- And join us. We have great fun.

Before we go any further- yes, that's right- I want to thank all the folks who are scoutmastercgcom backers. These folks help make the blog and the podcast possible. And since our last podcast, my special thanks to Dustin Tardidi, John Farrell, Matt Weiss and Steve Byers, who've all become backers since our last podcast.

Thanks so much, folks. There's another way to help out too, And that's through a service called Patreon, where you can make a monthly kind of subscription payment.

And I want to thank Mitchell Locken, who became a Patreon subscriber since our last podcast. This is easy to do. If you want to go to scoutmastercgcom, look at the upper right of any page And in the manual. There you'll find some links that will tell you how to become a backer or how to become a patron.

Well, today I opened the windows because it's nice and warm. It's spring here. You might hear some birds in the background. I hope it doesn't bother you. It certainly doesn't bother me.

Yes, Then I've got some email questions to answer this week And I think we ought to get right to them. So let's get started, shall we

E-mail? That is folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Mitchell Locken is the Cubmaster with Pac-20 in Lincoln, Nebraska, where he is also the Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner for the Salt Valley District. He got in touch to ask this. I was wondering if you had any righteous resources regarding roundtables.

I'm a new Roundtable Commissioner and I want to increase attendance. I've been scouring the internet. I found a few ideas, but I figured I'd set my dial back to the 90s and send you an email. Even though it's not necessarily your era of expertise, your tenure might be able to set some light on it for me, even be able to cross-apply something that has worked for you at the unit level and getting increased attendance.

Well, Mitchell, I will give you some advice that I think applies pretty much across the board. None of it is especially groundbreaking, but there seems to be two reasonably immutable rules for attracting attention: activity and attendance. Whether it's a blog and a podcast, like I do, whether it's a troop meeting, a pack meeting, a roundtable meeting, camping out or any other activity that we do, there just seems to be two things that you can count on that will attract greater attention and attendance. You ready. One is to offer consistently excellent content. Number two is to make access to that content as easy as possible and to make sure that you reward the effort extended to gain access with something of commensurate value to that effort.

These aren't like big hidden secrets. I think they're just very simple things that we may bypass sometimes in our search for something that we wish would work. Forgive me for saying so. When we're talking about roundtable meetings, when we're talking about troop meetings, we're talking about campouts, we're talking about anything like this. Increasing attendance is the wrong goal.

It's not what we want to aim at. What we have to aim at is point number one: indispensable, indisputably excellent content to the meeting, the activity, the blog posts, the podcast, whatever.

Let's talk about something like a roundtable meeting for a moment. There's nothing indispensable in the information that's being shared, because people can get that in many different ways.

The quality of the presentation might be important, but it's not quite so important as the less tangible parts of the experience. There has to be some added value to going to a roundtable or any kind of meeting like committee meeting, anything that justifies getting in your car and devoting an hour or two to getting to that meeting and participating in it right, Because there are too many other ways to get the information that's shared.

So the information cannot be the main thing that attracts people. I think if you look at why boys are in scouts, why they attend meetings, go on campouts, you'll find some answers. All the other aspects of what they do in scouts dim in comparison to the central reason that they show up, and that is to hang out with their friends. It's the people, it's not the activity, it's not the information being exchanged, it's the relationships that form. That's what's centrally important.

So we have to treat scouts and scouters as more than an audience for some kind of program that we've prepared to present to them. We have to bend and fit our expectations to what they need and what they want, rather than the other way around. And the next email brushes up against this subject too.

So before I get into it, I offer this: we can't think in the same way and expect different results. We have to look at this with a clear head and try and figure out what the underlying broad principles are that affect these kinds of issues. Let me get to this email. Barry Dickinson is the Scoutmaster, Troop 175 in Foster City, California, and he said: you mentioned your quarterly parents meetings and troop courts of honor.

I'm assuming you get a pretty high turnout of scout parents for your courts of honor, but we've been struggling to get much more than the parents who are already actively involved in the troop, So that would be the adult volunteers and committee members. We've been trying to give more notice, sending a nice formal invitation and sending a letter home with the scout when they advance a rank to encourage the parents to show up. Unfortunately, none of this seems to be having much impact. We think it's important for scouts to have parents there to see them recognize formally for their achievements.

Should we not worry about it too much? If we should, do you have any suggestions for getting parents to show up at courts of honor?

Well, Barry, I'll give you the same answers as I gave Mitchell. You have to reward me for showing up with something that's indisputably excellent.

Now you said that you've sent out notices and you've sent out letters and you're trying to really encourage people to be there and stuff like that. I'm afraid in my experience, none of that is really going to work. You can't advertise something like this in that manner and expect people to show up. Everybody's busy Families are incredibly busy.

Every activity their children do ask them to sit in a chair for two or three hours on a work night with their younger children in tow most of the time, and the younger children get fidgety and it's some kind of program where I'm sitting down and you know it's my child, is involved and I really should be there and I understand this, but at the same time I have a whole lot else going on. So when it comes to what we do, we try to be the easiest thing going for our families and our parents. We earn their respect and attention once they understand that we value their time.

So we have a quarterly meeting in place of a scout meeting night on that regular meeting night at the regular meeting time, because that's already on everybody's calendar, and we make it clear that at least one parent is required to attend and we- you know that's not an unreasonable ask. If a parent doesn't show up at that meeting, we're going to follow up, We're going to explain what happened at the meeting and we're going to remind them that they're expected to attend.

You know it's part of the deal but we're not going to make a federal case over it And we do pretty well, I mean, we get a lot of people there. We don't get 100%, but we get a very high percentage of our families there And one of the key reasons why is we keep that evening to one hour maximum, 60 actual minutes. We aim for less than that.

We pat ourselves on the back if we keep it to, you know, 45 minutes, And I am not kidding 60 minutes. So once we've set that limitation for ourselves, then we have to do a little bit of work.

We have to have a sense of restraint. In entertainment, it's called, always leave them wanting more.

We have to respect our audience. Take a few minutes, write out your ideal meeting agenda or your presentation script. Cut it by 50% and you'll be close to what I'm talking about.

So anyway, on these evenings we start out with a 10 or 15 minute parents meeting. It has to be planned. You can't just throw it together at the last minute.

No, free for all, where any volunteer can just take the floor, or one of those I'm going to explain: scouting from starting in the year 1910, kinds of deals, right? No, something that's thought out, that's on a piece of paper, because that's professional.

I know you're a volunteer, but you have to have a level of professionalism and we want to get important information to the parents. Then we want to answer a couple of questions and then we want to say something like: well, we thank you for your attention. We've taken a meaningful amount of your time.

We have a court of honor coming up. We'll be around afterward If you have any questions or you want to talk.

If you make meetings like this so free for all, with 10 volunteers chiming in about this, and that for no parent plan or purpose, for an hour and a half or two hours, because they seem to like the sound of their own voices, there's little chance parents will come back. Put yourself in the audience's seat.

Is the information that's being provided to me something that's vital that I need to know? Is it being provided in a professional manner and respecting the fact that I am sitting here when there are 10 other things that I could or should be doing?

So that parents meeting- part of it. We usually are done in 10 minutes or less, And then we have our court of honor, which can be 20 or 30 minutes long. It's meaningful, It's brief. We don't draw things out needlessly, We don't make it floored and dramatic or overblown. We keep up the pace and we leave everybody saying that was nice And wow, it didn't take very long either.

So, like I was saying, the entertainment maximum always leave them wanting more. I want to be done and for people to be looking at their watches and going, wow, that that that didn't take hardly any time at all, Rather than be in the middle of something and have people looking at their watches saying, Oh, when is this going to be over?

So we have our parents meeting, We have our brief, meaningful court of honor And then there's cookies and punch for everybody who wants to hang around, but everyone can leave within 60 minutes of having walked through the door. Now Barry got back to me. After I answered him. He says: thanks for the feedback. It helps a lot. Our courts of honor are already on a troop night, but it sounds like they could definitely be condensed.

They're about 90 minutes long right now. So by what you're telling me, this is shorter than a regular troop meeting.

Do I have that right? Yes, Barry, you do have it right, But people hang around and talk afterwards and we end up closing the door at the usual time.

The idea is that the program part of it- is pretty brief and then people can leave if they need to leave And Barry goes on to ask: what's the content or format of your parents meeting? As for the content of the parents session- I'm the committee chair- reviews what's happening over the next three months and what we need from parents and the way of money and paperwork and commitments and such, And my part in it as the Scoutmaster was usually simply saying hello and are introducing the senior patrol leader who then runs the court of honor. You can't inoculate yourself against parents constantly asking questions about the nature of the program, what happens.

So I've kind of given up on explanatory sessions. I would rather apply the time and effort spent in those to having individual conversations with parents, and our committee chair handles most of this informally with our families And they know how to find them. He's there every single Monday night and he spends a great deal of his time talking directly with parents who have questions about why we're doing something or how things are working. I'm not saying don't have question and answer sessions in a meeting. All I'm saying is that men, my experience parents are either disinterested or distracted by a dozen other things And when they need answers they will ask and my attempts at educating them in a group have not been very effective. And let's be real: for the past 107 years, Scouters have consistently complained about how difficult parents can be, how inattentive they are to the concerns of Scouters, And I don't think anything like that is going to change.

You have to look at this as a feature rather than a flaw. It's something that we deal with.

I did at one time think I would be able to clear this up if I sat everybody down and explain things really well one time, but I was sorely mistaken. So keep courts of honor brief and meaningful. Mandate: one parent from each family needs to be at this meeting. Keep everything as brief and meaningful as possible and follow up with the absentees.

So these past two emails are talking about activity and attention. I want to reiterate the two key things: indispensable content on a consistent basis and making sure that you understand and reward the effort it takes to gain access to that content, So you can exchange program for content if that helps.

But I think when we're, when we're counting heads, we look around and we go: wow, not many people are showing up for this meeting. Not many scouts will show up for something like that.

We have difficulty getting parents to courts of honor. Let's not look in all the wrong places or think that low attendance or interest is caused by things beyond our control.

I think it's much simpler than that. If you offer people a consistently excellent experience and you honor the effort that they extend, you will draw more attention. You will get more participation.

If you're not getting attention and participation well, you're not offering consistently excellent, indisputable, indispensable information or activity. So I would look carefully at what you're offering, or if you're just making it so difficult to gain access to what you're offering. And part of that difficulty could be an off-putting attitude towards the people who actually show up, because what you're looking at.

What I mean by that is: look, you know, I've been to plenty of meetings where you expect a big turnout and hardly anybody shows up. Okay, And then you get kind of that's, that's upsetting. You've put a lot of effort into something.

Nobody shows up and you and so now you're blaming the people who aren't there, which is crazy, And that spills over into the people who are there. I can't tell you how many meetings I've been at that are scouting related, where people sit around for the first 20 minutes and grump about the people who aren't there rather than paying attention to the people who are.

So you want more attendance, you want more activity. Check your attitude first.

Make sure that you're not kind of poisoning the well and make sure that you're actually doing scouting. Scouting has unbeatable core content that hasn't changed significantly in over a century. And when you boil it right down to the basic thing, scouting is hanging out with your friends, going camping with your friends. When you're a scout age boy or girl, that's what you're thinking.

All the other stuff that's going on, who cares? I get to hang out with my friends, I get to go camping with my friends. That's what's really important. In that context, we get to make all kinds of other things happen: skill and leadership and character development. It's great.

If we lose sight of that core thing, we see a decrease in engagement and activity and attendance And that drives feeling frustrated and angry And that colors the attitude with which we approach the whole thing, which also affects, you know, interest and engagement and activity and attendance, And we end up at the bottom of a spiral where we just decide that it's not worth doing anymore. It's always worth doing. Pay attention to the people that show up. Make sure that you are aimed at the core of the matter. Reward whoever shows up with excellent, indispensable content and a great experience. And remember what that is.

It's hanging out with your friends and going camping for scouts, And it's not too much different from that for any other kind of activity or meeting. I will say this: a lot of the families who come to these quarterly parents meetings look forward to doing it because they get to hang out with the other families And they get to do that because we don't take up all of their available time with things of questionable value. We try and present high value things. They get to have cookies and punch and hang out with the other families And, like I said, we close the door usually around the same time on that Monday night that we do every other Monday night. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and your experience with attendance and activity and engagement from parents and scouts, And I'm going to tell you how to be in touch with me.

But before I do that, I want to put this challenge out to you. Dave Matz is the Scoutmaster, Troop 444. And he wrote to me asking this question. The new rank requirements talk about conservation related service And I am curious as to how people are interpreting conservation related service and what they believe qualifies, as this relates to life rank. Get in touch with your answers to Dave's question there. I will say this: there's a fascinating conversation you can have with a scout about this.

So what do you think that conservation related service is? What do you know about it?

Who is involved with this in our community? Who would you talk to about it?

I think there's great conversations to be had there, but I'm also interested in your ideas. Get in touch with me with that. Let me know your thoughts. I'm going to tell you how to do it in just a moment.