Scoutmaster Podcast 313

Hey everybody, This is Brent Dixon. I'm an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 192 in St Cloud, Florida. This edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast is very happily sponsored by backers like me.

And now it's the old Scoutmaster. This report just in from Bill McFarland, who's a long-time listener and a Scoutmaster with Troop 8 in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. On a recent camping trip, Bill had a bout of insomnia.

He stayed up most of the night wondering where the sun had gone and then it dawned on him.

Hey, this is podcast number 313.. Hey, Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green in the mailbag this week, Heard from Dave Jenkins who said: I just discovered your site and love the podcast.

Well thanks, Dave. As a new Scoutmaster, so many of the topics clearly speak to issues I've already encountered and struggled with in our own Troop. Thank you for doing this. I plan to become a backer to see it continues forward. Thanks for all you're doing to help scouts and scouters. Thank you, Dave, for getting in touch.

Yeah, none of this is really brain surgery. Most of the things that anybody encounters as a Scoutmaster have already happened thousands, if not millions, of times And, yeah, it just takes a little experience to help you figure it out. I'm not any smarter than anybody.

I've just been around longer, right? That's my typical excuse. But anyway, Over on Amazon, my book, The Scouting Journey, If you haven't read it.

The Scouting Journey is my attempt at taking the ideas from Baden Powell's is to Scoutmaster ship and kind of updating them into the 21st century, Because those ideas are the foundation of the worldwide scouting And then they definitely translate into the myriad of cultural and social conditions and a century's worth of history. They work. What I wanted to do was to renew their relevance to us a century later. But anyway, Parker Levinson left me a five-star review for the book and said that The Scouting Journey was both relevant and interesting, And I appreciate that.

Parker, Thanks so much. Every week we have a couple of live chat sessions.

Now these are usually Tuesday and Wednesday mornings. They happen at scoutmasterscgcom. If you follow our Facebook feed and our Twitter feed, I'll announce when I'm online and ready to chat And you can come and join the many, many people who check in every week.

We have lots of frequent flyers who come back from week to week, as well as, this past week, Dan Budd, who's a new Scoutmaster of Troop 42 in Red Hook, New York, And Dan stopped in to say he'd been a new Scoutmaster for just a couple of months. It was also Dan's birthday, So belated happy birthday to you, Dan. Stop in at scoutmastercgcom, Mostly Tuesday mornings and Wednesday mornings, Watch the Facebook feed and the Twitter feed and say hello at the live chat. I do have a favor to ask of you.

If you're a regular reader or listener, Would you please consider helping me keep the Scoutmaster blog and the Scoutmaster podcast up and running, If the resources that I've created have helped you, here's how you can return the favor. Two very simple ways of doing this. Go to scoutmastercgcom. Look at the very top of the page, over on the right hand side, And you'll see a link that says support, And you'll also see a link that says Patreon- P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Through the support link, you can become a backer of scoutmastercgcom, which is a one-time kind of subscription payment, I guess you could say, And I have some premiums to offer you in the way of autographed copies of my books and such. You can also make a monthly subscription payment of $5 or more through Patreon, And that's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.

If you go to patreoncom, search for Scoutmaster CG, You'll see how that all works, and there are premiums available there too. And I want to make sure to personally thank John Romer, who became a backer since last week's podcast. Go to scoutmastercgcom, become a backer or a patron. I'll make sure to thank you personally on our next podcast.

Well, in this week's podcast I'm really happy to have an old friend of the podcast and the blog back, Walter Underwood, And Walter and I have collaborated a number of times on the podcast in the past. And a little while back I got an email from Walter asking if I had looked at the first volume of the new troop leader guidebook.

You know I hadn't, and more about why I hadn't in a second. It's been out for a while now, but Walter was pretty excited about it.

So I made sure to get myself a copy and I looked at it. I was pretty excited about it. I said, Walter, let's get together and I'll record it for the podcast and everybody can share our excitement over the book. The reason I didn't get a copy of it for a while is because of one thing that I'm kind of grumpy about, And I apologize for being grumpy, but I but just fielding comments about this book in particular and BSA publications in general, It's not available electronically, which is really kind of frustrating.

Now I know that you have to recap the publishing costs of the book. I mean, it's tremendous amount of resources go into publishing something like this And I understand that. But I would say that my books that I self publish and offer to people sell approximately two to one in electronic versions over print versions.

And while I haven't really done a formal analysis of the profits involved and everything you know, it's not a life changing amount of money, to tell you the truth. But while I haven't really looked at that, I know that I've probably profited more from the electronic versions because they basically come to me at very little cost

In comparison to distributing print versions. To my mind- And I could be absolutely wrong and not understand everything that's going on- But to my mind everything that the BSA offers ought to be available in electronic version that's easily portable, that I can share with people, And I'd be glad to pay the full price of a print version for it. And this troop leader guidebook, which is the first of a two volume set- and the second volume is supposed to come out sometime soon- I'd be happy to pay the full print price for an electronic version of it.

So I'll get off my soapbox and I'll stop being grumpy. I will immediately own up to the idea that I may not understand issues involved with doing something like that, But you know, if we want to improve the knowledge and the abilities of our volunteers, we want to make that as frictionless as possible.

At least I would think so, Anyway, but it was really good to get back together with Walter and to go through and discuss what was in the guide. I know that it will be mentioned a little later on, but kudos to Mark Ray, who authored this first volume, did a wonderful job. Lots of very practical information, reference material and advice for scouts.

Here's the discussion that Walter and I had is going to take up the remainder of the podcast. So let's get started, shall we? Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. Let's start the fun. Today I am welcoming back to the podcast our old pal, Walter Underwood, who is in Palo Alto, California.

Walter, what in the world are you doing for scouts nowadays? Well, I'm teaching scoutmasters and I'm approving needle projects for the district and I'm hanging out with the troop and generally having fun. And in the past you served as a scoutmaster. I was a scoutmaster, assistant scoutmaster, cubmaster, all kinds of things.

Okay, so the whole laundry list, huh, Yes, I've done it. I was even a patrol leader for just a little bit- Raccoon Patrol, a troop 26 in Beverage- Oh, right, right down there in Louisiana. Yeah, back in your salad days, Back when I was wrapping hamburger meat and foil and burning it over in the coals- Yes, a timeless tradition still carried out by the scouts of Louisiana and other environs. I'm glad to have you back on the podcast and we're going to be talking about the first volume of the troop leader guidebook that we're both pretty thrilled with. If you want a spoiler right at the top, I just started looking at this troop leader guidebook.

You haven't seen the second volume yet, have you? No, I haven't. I don't think anybody has. I haven't seen it in the editor.

But, yes, Yeah, because I don't frequent like scout shops or anything, I haven't been able to find it online anywhere, But I'm pretty okay with this one. I think it's actually a pretty good step forward. I like it a lot. Yeah, I was.

Well, I had very high expectations when I saw that Mark Ray was writing it. Right, yeah, And then I was delighted when I read it. Yeah, especially because I have kind of a collection of Scott master handbooks and most of them are not very useful. No, they're horrible.

Yeah, well, that, yes, actually it's more accurate. Yeah, I've told Scott masters by the SPL handbook. The Scott master handbook has the forms and stuff, but by the SPL handbook, because that tells you how to run a troop. I have actually a first edition BSA Scoutmaster handbook.

Well, you're not missing anything. Well, no, I got the 70s one and it's really chipper but not that useful. I actually recycled the 1990s version. It was just didn't say anything. No, it was pretty bad.

Have you seen the new scout handbook? You know, I've gone through it a little bit.

I think it's an improvement over the previous one. Actually, Some of the detailed stuff, like the cooking and that kind of stuff, seems okay. It was interesting to what I grew up with actually had a page on each point of the scout law and had pictures or drawings of scouts doing things that were helpful or kind. You're going to look at the pictures. Yeah, the old scout handbooks, the old patrol leader handbooks, they were illustrated with cartoons. Those are like a gateway to your imagination, because as a boy I had like the late 1940s copy of the patrol leader's handbook.

I was never involved in scouts or anything like that, but I found that handbook absolutely fascinating. It was one of those books that was hanging around the house and I would just sit and page through it and look at those drawings.

As unrealistic as some of the expectations it may set in your mind, You know where all the fellows are rallying around the flag, waving their hats and have perfect campsites. I thought that those drawings were more of a gateway to my imagination than the photographs that we see now.

You know there's room to put yourself into a drawing. The photograph is just a whole different energy and I don't really understand why. But anyway.

So here we are with the troop leader guidebook. First we just talk about utility. Mine's set up to be put into a three ring binder.

Well, and I have a three ring binder that has a zipper and all kinds of good stuff so I can put it in there And it's not really something I would use as a handbook or an outing. So I think it's fine to have a bigger format.

Yeah, I think it's a good format. I think you can put extra pages in. You can keep notes if you wanted. It's pretty good.

I think I paid $12.99 for mine, Something like that. That's about right Utility wise, as far as it being a physical object- three ring binder, that's pretty good. The type is big enough, Which is good for us with reading classes. Yes, it becomes more and more important as years go by. The only bone I have to pick with the utility of it is that it is not available in a digital version. It's something where you need to have this available to everyone in scouting.

Well, I would have very happily paid $12.99 for a PDF version. It's 2016,, PSA. We really need these things in an electronic version. Sure, It would just make it much more mobile and a lot easier to find things When you're trying to sort out a given subject and you have a searchable PDF.

It just makes life so much simpler. Sure, I'm all about search. I do. We'll have to just live with our old fashioned paper copies. One of the reasons that I asked you to join me and talk about this is because you sent me an email that was very excited about this.

Tell me why There's so much to learn as a Scoutmaster. A lot of it is standing off and watching the boys do things, Understanding what it is that they're supposed to do, Making them have chances to make decisions. It's a hard thing to do, as you know: to keep your hands in your pockets while I try to start a fire for 45 minutes. This really talks about that.

The other thing is that I know I expect the first place you turn to on this is the patrol method. I did- How exciting is that? What a surprise.

It's very straightforward, Well, and it's more than one page and one paragraph. Well, and something that I've missed in the last couple of Boy Scout Handbooks is the one sentence that the patrol elects their leader. Yeah, that would solve a lot of difficulties, Partly because of parents. Yes, Yeah, And this says: the patrol is a semi-permanent group of compatible scouts who elect their own leader. Boom, There's no wiggle room in there.

Yeah, And what I've learned over time is: it seems that the patrol method is the most difficult thing to get, And maybe in the troop that you're a member of, somebody gave it a shot 10 years ago and didn't work out real good, And so they decided that it wasn't really going to happen very much, Or they were going to have a patrol method that was just so heavily leveraged by adult influence that it really wasn't operating properly. In this Volume 1 of the Leader Guide, Chapter 3, the patrol method- One, two, three, four pages- is perfect. I have no argument with anything. I've read in it. Two things: One, the patrol method is scary. Oh yeah, It's totally scary.

I mean that's why we provide a safety net, Though no one's starved to death on a weekend camp out. The only thing that I'm a little disappointed in is that it pushes the new scout patrol, regular patrol version of things, because our troop has been very successful with having mixed patrol, mixed stage patrols. I had new scout patrols work at other troops around here.

I wish it was a little bit more balanced, but that's at least they do describe that mixed stage patrols are, you know, historically the thing to do. I was looking at this section.

There is a lot of indication that adults can be a little more involved with all of the patrol processes than I think is particularly wise. I would much rather people get started with it somewhere, learn a little bit more about it as they go along, And this is a really good beginning. Right, There's probably a chapter that belongs somewhere which is about introducing the patrol method.

Yeah, And how do you jump into the deep end without drowning? That's a puzzle that I know a lot of people who are listening go through And, in the broader idea of everything that's in this guide, the one thing that everybody tells me- whether they've been at this for, you know, six months or 40 years- is that, well, we're almost there, We almost.

We pretty much are boy led and we have really good strong patrols and everything. We're almost there, but that seems to be a permanent condition. If you're doing right that, you're never quite there. You're almost there, You've almost got it running. There's the idea that somehow we're going to reach a point where we don't have to do anything anymore And the whole system is running on its own.

Well, and, of course, as soon as they they have it figured out, you give them more challenges, Right. One of the things that's been really funny about our troop is is seeing when I joined running with the SPL and the senior scouts running the troop were incredibly competent, And then my son was running the troop.

He was not so good, but the- the parents of the younger scouts are just like I was four years previous and they are. I want my son to grow up to be like that.

You know it's. It's such a process of increasing opportunity, responsibility, all that kind of stuff. My son is graduating from college this spring and he just gave his senior thesis.

And that is funny when you're working with your SPL and your patrol leaders and your your, can you call somebody please? You know more than the day before, more than the, you know five o'clock for a seven pm patrol meeting.

That's another thing that everybody talks about as as though we're going to solve that problem. That's never going to be solved. No, No, because they're figuring it out as they go along and they're just, they just don't know yet. And my, my son was patrol leader for a year and a half. The last two meetings he used the official sheet, but he goes: wow, this really works.

Well, you know, if you stay at something long enough, you figure it out after a while. Everything I read in this was just kind of making me happy. Section three: all about youth. I thought that was a pretty good section too.

Well, I guess it's pretty standard: BSA fair, the ages and stages stuff. Yeah, This is probably the best part of the old handbook. Yeah, You have to lay that out because there's such a difference as the Scouts grow up. The techniques for working with youth: I thought those were very enlightened and it really kind of lays out what the character of a Scoutmaster ought to be.

Right, Because we say adult association and the methods, but what the heck is that? You know it's not just standing around with a coffee cup, Right? And this gives you a page or two of how do you model this, communicate it, How do you work with youth And how do you help them to become adults.

Following right on the tail of that, there's sections called Teachable Moments and Ethical Dilemmas and then, one of my favorite things, Reflection, And it really lays these out. I think it lays them out pretty thoroughly to get a grasp on them and to build them into your repertoire as a scouter.

It's really well done, Right. It makes you aware of those opportunities.

The other interesting section, I thought, or the chapter, is the one I'm working with youth leaders, Right? So this is mentoring more than the kind of one-on-one or modeling. I'd argue with a couple of things about it, but the thing that I especially think everybody ought to pay attention to is on page 74, where they talk about setting leadership expectations.

Oh, absolutely, Just have them write it down Like two things: What are you going to do? Very simple goals, And I hope now that adult scouts, scoutmasters and anybody involved with youth leaders are really thinking very hard about what the expectations are and having an ongoing conversation with the scouts as they go.

That's why I like this section so much. That's why I think this is important for everybody to look at. I'm delighted that the duties of a scoutmaster are actually in the scoutmaster handbook.

Yeah, how about that? I actually finally found them after I was no longer a scoutmaster in the food committee.

Just to reference that, it's now in chapter 15.. Chapter 15, page 83.. Right, If you look on page 83,, first of all it starts out with scoutmaster and it has a bulleted list of what a scoutmaster ought to be doing, But then it also starts talking about assistant scoutmasters, who actually have set responsibilities. I might argue with some of the way that they're set up. What I've observed- and I don't know if it's the same where you are- we've had an exponential growth of the number of people who become volunteers and assistant scoutmasters. If somebody's going to sign on as an assistant scoutmaster, there really should be a reason.

Well, yeah, I don't care if they're a member committee or if they're members, Right? The other interesting thing- and I want to read something directly from this, because on page 84, over in the right-hand column, it talks about developing a spree to core in the scoutmaster core.

Right? Yes, The first bullet point reads thusly: Camp and eat together on troop outings.

Doing so makes space for patrols to do the same thing and keeps adults out of the scout's way. And make sure that you're not eating ramen every weekend. Yes, I would note too the total absence of any reference to anything called an adult patrol. Right, Please, don't set up adult patrols, Please. Patrols are for boys. I was looking at the parent section and good advice.

They talk about an annual parent meeting. We talk about a new parent conference. On page 87, talk about transitioning from Weebelow's leader to an assistant scoutmaster, which I've never seen in any official document anywhere ever that I can recall. Yes, That transition is a huge speed bump for boys and for adults, for parents. There's a section or a chapter on working with the troop committee about adult leader training, Advancement and awards has been given its own section, having a really clear understanding of the way advancement works. Perhaps a little thin on the why part here.

Yeah, It's easy to get caught up in the ranks. Yeah, You can go to the Guide to Advancement and there's a lot of good why we're doing this language. I would have liked to have seen more here. I don't know if it's in here. There was a description of advancement as a method that said a series of surmountable obstacles. Right, It's been my favorite description of that.

They're just enough that you could walk around them, but you might as well go over it. There is a section about troop administration, which is probably my least favorite subject but very necessary to understand how that works and actually the chapters on financing the troop and the charter organizations, relationships, troop communications and things is kind of contextualized earlier by talking about what your relationship is with the troop committee as a Scoutmaster. Right, And that's why we all love having a wonderful committee chair, Oh, please. Yes, A really good section on health and safety guidelines has the chart on page 118 about ages and the different types of activities.

Who does what when? Yeah, Right, The Suite 16 of BSA Safety is like a model document for doing safe things anywhere with a group of people. The next chapter includes the safe swimming, what it's called Right, Safe swim defense, safety afloat- Yes, And it's all spelled out and it's all right there, which is great.

You know, Trek safely is almost too general to be useful. I would love to have that in a lot more detail for different kinds of activities, But that's probably a different book.

Well, I'll tell you where I here's, where I fall with it. If we were going to teach volunteers anything, it'd be the Suite 16 of BSA Safety, Because that basically is reiterated in all the more specific training such as safe swim defense, safety afloat, climb on safely, trek safely Right. It's just more specific applications of those 16 things. The Suite 16 has always made a whole lot of sense to me and it's been very useful. The whole age guidelines for tool use and works at elevations or excavations, which is one of.