Scoutmaster Podcast 250

Hi, I'm Steven Jarvis and I'm Cup Master with Pac-46 in Fayetteville, Arkansas. This edition of the Scout Messer podcast is sponsored by backers like me And now the old Scoutmaster.

So 17 Scouts are playing a game, right, And the Senior Patrol Leader rounds them up and he ends up with 20.. Think about it now: 17 Scouts playing a game, round them up and you get Okay, Hey, if you can come up with a better one, send it in. All right, Welcome to podcast number 250..

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's see. Looking in the mailbag. We heard from Fred Hammack in El Cajon, California Love your site and I find that you're an awesome mentor.

I started my troop four years ago and I've used so much of your insights. I find that I track with your point of view about 90% of the time. As the troops been getting off the ground, we've been adapting as much as possible. I found your thoughts to be a good compass. I have 12 to 15 year old Scouts and they're awesome, but I can't wait for a 16 or 17 year old Senior Patrol Leader. Don't wish your life away, Fred.

You know those guys, I'm sure are great And as they get a little older, they'll get a little more skilled and things will maybe be just a little bit more simple. But hey, it's just a great game to play, isn't it? On the we, we managed to get a couple of live chats in this week. We talked with Alan and Dave Smiley and Doug Boyce Merlion from Arnheim in the Netherlands, Mike Manager from Atlanta, Georgia, Steve Cottrell, one of our frequent fliers out in Shepherd, Michigan, Dennis Unger, and with Tomka Alabama and Nimrata in Chennai, India. All checked in on the chat this week.

So we do. We do actually get all the way around the world.

How about that? So listen, if you're a regular reader and listener and the resources that you find at ScoutmasterCGcom have helped you, you can return the favor by becoming a backer, And the funds we get from backers go towards the expenses of producing and publishing the blog posts and the podcasts and the videos, And we want to keep them freely available.

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So in this week's podcast, in Scoutmaster's ship in seven minutes or less, we're going to see if we can answer the question: just what is an Eagle Scout? Exactly what is an Eagle Scout?

And then I've got some email questions to answer as well. So let's get started, shall we Scoutmaster's ship in seven minutes or less?

So asking the question what is an Eagle Scout Tends to start long, operatic, kind of dramatic conversations in Scouting. I get a fair amount of email from people who are participating in Eagle Boards Review or hear a story about somebody who earns Eagle at an early age or this or that, or maybe are just kind of generally dissatisfied with the way Eagle Scout is administered or has become or used to be.

I mean, you know there's there's a lot involved in answering the question: what is an Eagle Scout? Now, answering this question for years and years really got me wrapped around my own axle, but not anymore, And I want to explain why. Most of the conversations I've ever had on this question are as predictable as going to an opera and reading the libretto.

Right The curtain rises with a chorus number that describes how our once proud standards have fallen, because now just anybody can become an Eagle Scout. In the second act, stories of overzealous parents or 12 year old Eagles- good Lord, 12 year olds, Eagles- and other grave concerns and injustices unfold dramatically And this advances the theme. And in the finale there's a chorus of clucking tongues and a basso profundo aria.

Well, we really make our Scouts earn Eagle. We aren't an Eagle factory like that troop across town and everybody gasps and horror.

And then a standing ovation in the curtain falls until the next performance when somebody asked the question: what's an Eagle Scout? And the whole thing starts all over again.

Now, as a new Scoutmaster- and mind you, this was 30 years ago- I was in the audience listening to these conversations, listening to old Scouts are seeing their arias of complain about Eagle Scout. I certainly wasn't going to be one of the pariahs.

They told me about a Scoutmaster who would just give Eagle away for you know, as if anybody actually ever did that. No, but I wouldn't ever do that.

So I joined the cast of the opera and I learned all the songs and I built up my own idealized standard of what an Eagle Scout ought to be. And by gum, nobody was going to get Eagle unless they met my standards.

Now that was what passed for. An answer to the question was my own idealized standard of what an Eagle Scout ought to be. I've never I was not an Eagle Scout as a youth.

I've known lots and lots of Eagle Scouts, but you know, through the conversations I had and through what people had to say and a lot of people who I, who I really respected in Scouting, who had very strong opinions about this, you know I came up with my own idealized idea of what this was going to be. Now it took me a while to realize that I hadn't actually answered the question: what is an Eagle Scout?

I've been distracted by a very different question altogether, and that is: who deserves to become an Eagle Scout? That's two very different questions.

So who deserves to become an Eagle Scout? Well, any Scout who completes the requirements. That's it. No more, no less. There's no Eagle Plus, There's no Eagle Minus. There's only a set of requirements written by our national organization.

They're not difficult to follow. You can read them, take them at face value and there you have it. That's who deserves to become an Eagle Scout. Some complete the requirements when they're very young. Some complete the requirements years, months, days or hours before they turn the magical age of 18 and they're no longer able to complete requirements towards Eagle Scout.

Does it matter at what age they complete the requirements? It doesn't. It really really doesn't.

So how did I answer the question: what is an Eagle Scout? I had, for a long time in my mind, resolved the question who deserves to be an Eagle Scout?

By, you know, having built up this idealistic image in my own head. But that's not the question, is it?

What is an Eagle Scout? And now I know the actual answer to that question, like I just said, is: anybody who completes the requirements deserves to be an Eagle Scout.

Now let's figure out what is an Eagle Scout. So before we answer that question, during my tenure as Scoutmaster, I presented somewhere in north of 100 and south of 120 Eagle Scout badges.

Now, I never really kept very close numbers on it, but it was right around in there. So I believe that going through that process that many times, working with that many Scouts, would give me a reasonably experienced perspective of this.

So how did it go? Huh, How did it go If I worked with somewhere between 100 and 120 Eagle Scouts?

How did it go? Well, I will tell you, not one of them ever completely measured up to my idealized, dramatically operatic and totally unnecessary personal standard of what an Eagle Scout should be. But that doesn't matter, because actually some years ago, thank goodness, I realized that that idealized standard that I created for myself didn't really matter very much. What I realized is that the important thing is that once a Scout earns Eagle Rank, once he deserves to be presented with the Eagle Rank because he's completed the requirements, he begins the lifelong process of becoming an Eagle Scout.

Not one of the 2.7 million or so Scouts who have earned the Eagle Rank in the last 104 years were, at the time they earned the Rank, a fully formed, ideal, perfect Eagle Scout. No, they were not that when somebody handed them the badge. They're young men with a lifetime of opportunities ahead of them. What we've recognized by presenting them with an Eagle that they've earned, that they deserve, is that they have a measure of potential and character and the rest of their life they're going to be working on that. The rest of it is up to them.

My first Eagles, my first Eagles, are well into their 40s now and I'm privileged that I've been able to keep in touch with a lot of them and watch them go through college and start families, and they're in the midst of wonderful careers and each one of them is still becoming an Eagle Scout. This is something that they get up and do every single day. That's what an Eagle Scout does. Once a Scout deserves Eagle Rank, by completing all the requirements, he begins a lifelong process of becoming an Eagle Scout, and what he becomes ultimately is based on the idea that at one point, people recognized in his younger years his potential and his character to become somebody who we are proud to call an Eagle Scout.

So our job is not defending Eagle Scout from the hands of the unworthy or the unwashed by creating this, you know, overblown, dramatic, idealized standard. And, like I said, I had one. It was a pretty good one.

None of the 100 or so Scouts that I worked with who earned the rank of Eagle ever met it fully. Some did better than others, but, like I said, I found out it didn't matter.

Our job is to make sure that every single one of our Scouts has the opportunity to fulfill all the requirements and earn the rank of Eagle and then to spend the remainder of their lives becoming an Eagle Scout. So what's an Eagle Scout? It's somebody who's earned the rank of Eagle, who has lots of potential and good, strong character and becomes an Eagle Scout for the rest of their lives.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Here's a couple of email questions. The first: I'm going to keep the sender anonymous because of nature of the question, but they ask this as a new Scoutmaster. I'm faced with a little bit of a dilemma. One of our Scouts has completed all the requirements for Eagle and I'm being asked to sign off on his work and send him to a border review. I have reservations about this particular Scout.

He hasn't done what I think ought to be expected of an Eagle Scout, and his parents have been overly involved in his advancement. Nearly all of his fulfillment of the requirements came before I was Scoutmaster, but I don't think he's done a very good job of things, So should I sign off on him becoming an Eagle Scout?

Well, when there's a change in Scoutmasters, the work that a Scout did that was previously approved is going to stay approved and we move on. We can't go back and readdress those things or fix them or undo signatures. If it's already been approved, it's approved. If there are things that you have to approved and you're concerned if they were actually fulfilled and you weren't the Scoutmaster at the time, any new Scoutmaster is going to have this period of transition and during that period Scouts who were progressing under the old Scoutmaster are going to be an important concern.

A lot of times a change like this happens because maybe things weren't going so well and the new Scoutmasters intent on making things better, and that's a very worthy goal. But the goal of making things better and serving the interests of Scouts who may have not had the advantage of a better Scoutmaster are two very different things. If a Scout's progressed towards Eagle under one system and is only a few steps away, it's unfair to demand a different standard from that which he has been used to, or to try and correct the shortcomings of the former Scoutmaster in a way that's going to be contrary to the interests of the Scout.

Now, encountering this kind of thing can be troublesome and confusing for a new Scoutmaster, but our aim and focus is always on the interest of the individual Scout. There are no doubt younger Scouts who will have the benefit of your time as a Scoutmaster.

Perhaps you're more attentive, perhaps you know more about Scouting and you'll keep closer tabs on the way that they fulfill requirements. What you have to do is accept that any perceived or actual deficiencies in the performance of this particular Scout is not the Scout's fault but the fault of the adults who were previously working with them.

So, no matter what your opinion is, if the work's already been approved, that's it. The signature stands and we move on. If you have to approve work that was done under the old Scoutmaster and you're not too sure that it meets what is in the requirement- not your personal standard, but what is in the requirement- that's a discussion that you're going to need to have with the Scout himself. But some of the concerns you raise are pretty common concerns, and I just talked about it in

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, And what you think ought to be expected of an Eagle Scout and what the requirement says are two very different things. Read the requirement, take it at its face value: work with the Scout not in an adversarial relationship, but in a cooperative relationship, And I think what you're going to find is a lot of the concerns that you have right now are addressed by your attitude and your understanding of the fact that he is not in control either of his parents or the people who were working with him previous to you're becoming a Scoutmaster. Here's another question, and another anonymous question, and the nature of the question will tell you why it's being kept anonymous, as always. Do you feel it's the Scoutmaster's duty to write a letter to the border review that elaborates on how a Scout has completed the requirements for Eagle, such as doing minimum requirements and nothing more, not engaging in the many opportunities to develop leadership skills or etc.

Well, there's nothing in the Guide to Advancement how such a letter would be part of the border review for Eagle, nor is it suggested or mandated in any literature that I'm aware of. So my answer to the question: is it the Scoutmaster's duty to write a letter of reference to the border review is a big fat. No, The Scoutmaster has multiple opportunities along the way to discuss his concerns with a Scout and hopefully collect any problems that he may see.

So let's count them up. Scoutmasters have a minimum of seven conferences with Scouts before they get to an Eagle border review and they sign off on each one of those conferences. The Scout has had to have someone sign this requirement six different times and that requirement is: demonstrate Scout Spirit by living the Scout oath and the Scout law in your everyday life. Someone has signed that the Scout fulfilled a position of responsibility for a total of 16 months and that's taken at least three signatures. The Scoutmaster reviews and approves the Eagle project and signs off on their approval three times in the course of the project. In addition, the Scoutmaster has signed a minimum of 21 merit badge applications at least once.

So I count 60 signatures and each of these 60 signatures represent an opportunity to counsel, encourage, correct mentor a Scout and it also represents a complete and final approval of his progress along the way. Now you're telling me that Scoutmaster wants to write a letter that addresses doing minimum requirements and nothing more, or not engaging in the many opportunities to develop leadership skills etc.

Well, if those concerns or if they were addressed and the Scout's performance did not improve, why did the Scoutmaster continue to sign off on 60 different opportunities for the Scout to advance? So if things progress to that point, it's an indication that the Scoutmaster hasn't understood the role and it can't possibly be the Scout's fault. This is plainly the Scoutmaster's absolute failure to do their job and ambushing a Scout at his border review after passing up a minimum of 60 opportunities to correct the problem or addresses concerns is just patently unfair.

So the Scoutmaster's duty is to do their job right and to work with Scouts along the way and help them and mentor them and correct them where we need be, Not to store all this up and wait until the Eagle border review and ambush the Scout with a with a negative reference letter. Beyond that, let me also mention there's no such thing as minimum requirements. There's only requirements. There's no plus or minus to them, It's just what's written there. I'll also say there is no leadership requirements for ranks or a requirement to take advantage of opportunities of developing leadership skills. If you look at the requirements for Star Life and Eagle.

They reference positions of responsibility, not leadership positions. The only time a Scout is required to demonstrate leadership is in connection with his Eagle project.

So the way that you phrase the question begs a misunderstanding of a couple of key elements. Right, We only have requirements, not minimum requirements or maximum requirements or extra credit requirements, and we need to make sure that we have a very clear understanding of positions of responsibility versus the development of leadership skills and that the Eagle project is the place for an Eagle candidate to showcase his ability to lead others.

So that's just two quick email questions this time around. If you have a question or a comment, you can get in touch with me and you're going to find out how to do that in just