Scoutmaster Podcast 244

Hey everybody, this is Brent Dixon. I'm an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 192 in St Cloud, Florida. This edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast is very happily sponsored by backers like me.

And now to you, Scoutmaster. Hey, Steve Buckman got in touch with me.

He said there's a little confusion over knots in his troop And they were trying to figure out what a sheep bend is A sheep bend? Well, Steve, I know there's not called a sheep shank And you might be thinking of a sheet bend. A sheet bend, right, Not sheep with a P, but sheet with a T. OK, Because there's no need to ever tie a sheep bend, because that would be bad, bad. Oh, come on, I know there's better jokes out there. Send them in, would you Please.

Hey, this is podcast number 244.. Hey, Hey, Hey.

Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Hey, let's see. Let's take a look in the mailbag and see who got in touch over the past week. We heard from Hugh.

He said: Clark, what's the name of the group that does the cowbell version of the Happy Wanderer that used to play on the podcast? I want to use it for a roundtable on Thursday. By the way, bring it back.

We need more cowbell. Thanks for all you do.

Well, Hugh, I think this is exactly what you're thinking of, right? The group that does that is called the Salzburger Echo And I'll have a link to where you can find that song. And yeah, I used to play it a lot on the podcast And I guess maybe it's time to bring it back a little bit.

So, you know, maybe we'll hear it every once in a while. Thanks for getting in touch, Hugh. I really appreciate it. Andy Domert said I'm enjoying going back through all the podcasts during my commute.

I believe you've got a couple of numbers mixed up around number 30 or 31.. And I was looking for an index of the music you use on the podcast.

Well, Andy, somewhere in the early part of the podcast there we were between 25 and 35,. I missed a number And I'll go and take a look at that on the archive and see if I can get that sorted out. But I know there's actually a missing number somewhere in there.

So sorry for that confusion. And you've given me another thing for the to-do list. On most of the old podcasts on the post that contain those on the blog, you'll find references to the music that's in them.

But maybe I should come up with an easy to find list that shows you where you can find all of the different music I've used over the past few years And then, like Hugh, you can play it at the round table so that you don't have to go to roundtables anymore, because I mean, once they hear that right, They're yeah. Well. Anyway, I had several chances this week while I was working at my desk to turn on the chat feature. We had some great chats this past week and I'm gonna try and do more of that in the future.

So keep an eye on the Twitter feed and keep an eye on the Scoutmaster CG Facebook page And I'll announce when that chat is going to be live. Over this past week I chatted with Joe, who's a Cubmaster in Burlington, Connecticut. John Nelson in Westchester, Ohio. He's an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 947.. I also got the chat with Brad Findeson, who is a Scoutmaster in 29 Palms, California, in the California In-Line Empire Council. I like the name of that council, Dave Smiley from Santa Rosa, California.

Dave's a Scoutmaster. He checked in on the chat. Steve Cottrell is the Cubmaster of Pac 3623 in Central Michigan. We got the chance to chat with Steve for a while. We heard from Malaysia- BSA Troop 222 in Penang, Malaysia, And Benny Coley is the Troop Committee Chairman there for a troop of expats and missionaries And he's working there with Scoutmaster Paul Hofmeier and we're glad to talk to Benny on the chat. Scout leader Shane is from Rockingham in Western Australia.

He joined us to chat. Dan White is in Birmingham, Alabama. He is a Pat Committee Chair and a Den Leader and Assistant Scoutmaster. And finally, Mike Manager, the Roundtable Commissioner from Atlanta, checked in too. It was great to be able to chat with everybody. Watch the Scoutmaster's CG Facebook page and the Twitter feed And I'll put the times of live chats that we're able to manage in the future.

You'll be able to find them right there. Then go to scoutmastercgcom and we'll chat This week. I also heard from Doug Boyce And Doug got in touch to say I love listening to your podcasts and the articles. I had a favor to ask you. My son is working on Citizenship in the World Merit Badge and he'd like to contact a Scout outside the United States for one of the requirements.

So I posted that request on Facebook and within a few minutes we had plenty of responses. I had some folks get in touch via email and now Doug's son has a number of resources he can choose from to get in touch with people for Citizenship in the World Merit Badge, And I want to thank everybody who got in touch with us and offered their help with that.

So, over on the blog, this week, Frank Maynard had this comment on our last podcast where we addressed the question of somebody who's worked on an Eagle Project sitting on that Scout's Eagle Board of Review. Frank had this to say: having participated in a good many Eagle Scout projects and having also later served on their boards of review, I found it was a valuable insight that I could use. That strengthened both my understanding and the understanding of the candidate of the process of developing leadership, And we had a lot of enjoyable conversations.

So, if you don't already know, Frank has a blog called Bob White Blather and it's something that you should certainly check out, especially if you're a committee chair or serve on a troop committee somewhere. Frank has a great deal of experience with that, And I should say that Frank and I have collaborated on a number of questions that I received from a listener about Scouts and Money And that'll be posted to the blog this Wednesday, So make sure to look for that. This week on the blog we also published a couple of chapters of the new Scoutmaster series. Patrick Provart commented about that. I was a Scoutmaster from 1991 to 2002.. And it looks like I may have the chance to do it again when my Weeblows son becomes a Scout.

This series is wonderful to see what's changed and what hasn't. Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it, Patrick. John Nelson weighed in.

We as Scout Leaders have to teach our Scouts how to play the game and what the rules are, and then they can lead themselves. And thanks, John, Thanks for that. That's one of the messages I certainly want to get across in publishing that series.

And then finally, on the blog, yesterday, Sunday, this week's installment of BP's blog or Baden Powell's blog talked about the retention of the older Scout And I think what's really interesting is a little bit of Scouting history there. It was written in 1916, within that first decade of Scouting, as it was just kind of exploding all over the world. And Baden Powell is musing about a senior Scout program And I found it pretty interesting. Check it out at scoutmastercgcom. If you're a regular reader and a listener and if the resources we've created have helped you. You can return the favor by becoming a scoutmastercgcom backer.

The funds we get from backers go towards the expenses of producing all of the stuff that we make- okay, The podcasts, the blog posts, the videos- And we use those funds to keep all of the resources that we create accessible to Scouters all over the world. Now, if you'd like to become a backer, it's very easy: Go to scoutmastercgcom, right in the menu at the top of the page. You're gonna see a support link. Follow that and you can choose any level of support. Some of them entitle you to premiums, like autographed copies of my books, and we'll send them right out to you. I'd like to take a moment to personally thank Jeffrey Crump, who became a backer since our last podcast, And if you go to scoutmastercgcom this week, just like Jeff did, and become a backer, I'll be sure to thank you personally on our next podcast.

Well, in this 244th podcast, I've got some thoughts and Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, about talking to Scouts and listening to their answers, And then we've got some email questions to answer, and that is going to take up the remainder of the podcast. So let's get started, shall we? Master'ship in seven minutes or less. It's a simple thought.

But I want you to talk to your Scouts

And not talk down to them, not give them orders, but I want you to sit and talk to them, And I know that a lot of you already do this. But a lot of times, some of my first advice on questions I receive is: well, have you asked the Scouts how they feel about that? We'll find that they have lots of answers if we ask and if we listen carefully.

And to get good at listening, I think the first step is looking at our own attitudes and our understanding of the role that we play. Listening to young people requires that we know something in their lives and the challenges and changes that they're working through, And we have to cultivate that understanding.

We have to be intentionally compassionate, and compassion comes from understanding. Now, a lot of times, Scouts who don't have good relationship skills- and I would say probably especially men, because I are one right- We use aggression and rigid attitudes to compensate for a whole range of things, And usually it's our own inadequacies and fears. An aggressive or kind of senselessly rigid attitude will give you short-term control. You'll be able to control your Scouts and you'll be able to control everything around you right, But that's it. You're not gonna get much else. I'm a big, imposing man.

I'm six foot one. I have a very healthy avert du pois. I have a uniform and a big hat. I've got a big beard. I've got a deep voice. I can stand in the middle of a room of Scouts and I can use my physical stature and my loud voice to get attention and get them to do what I want them to do, But that gives no lasting effect.

I haven't achieved anything but compliance. Our mission is so much bigger than that, isn't it? We're on a mission to change lives and we don't get much change or growth through compliance to our aggressive or rigid attitudes. And you can apply an aggressive or a rigid attitude to have a very smooth running, high-attieving troop without any real personal growth or development on the part of individual Scouts.

And that's why I think it's very, very important that you talk to your Scouts and you learn to listen with a little humility, And we just may begin to see what they need and how we can help them build on their understanding of the Scout Oath and Law. Given the opportunity to offer their ideas and solutions to problems or conundrums that we're running across Scouts begin to call on those developing inner strengths. That is our main aim to develop. As we move along, we begin to see the Scouting Spirit in an individual Scout's heart is really the source.

Okay, And what I mean by that is we may think that our program or our prowess or our traditions or our practices are the source. They're not. It's a big mistake, and it's one that is as big as it is common.

We can't impose the Spirit of Scouting and all the good that flows from that on a Scout. It's already there, waiting for our ears, waiting for us to listen and waiting for us to help our Scouts discover.

Alls we have to do is talk to them and learn to listen to what they have to say. If you'll take the time to do that- and, like I said, do that with compassion and humility. Listen to what your Scouts have to say- the list of problems and challenges begins to grow a lot smaller. My name Email, that is folks,

And here's an answer to one of your emails. I heard from Scoutmaster Jim Hu, who is with Troop 309 in Morton, Illinois, And he wrote in to ask this: how do you handle a Scout who has earned the first aid Marriott badge at one of those Marriott badge fairs and now wants you to sign off on the Tenderfoot second class and first class first aid requirements.

Well, Jim, fairly simple answer. I'd sign off the requirements the same way I would for any other Scout. And if a Scout has first aid Marriott badge, demonstrating those first aid requirements would be really simple and probably wouldn't take all that long.

Now if they complained to me, or their parent complained to me, that they had already done that, I would show them this from the guide to advancement. Here we are in the guide to advancement folks, and you know about the numbers, right Pencil's ready.

Here we go In section 4.2.3.6, titled Fulfilling More than One Wireman with a Single Activity, And so let me read this to you. From time to time it may be appropriate for a Scout to apply what he has done to meet one requirement toward the completion of another.

In deciding whether to allow this, unit leaders or Marriott badge counselors should consider the following: When, for all practical purposes, two requirements match up exactly and have the same basic intent- for example, camping nights for the second class and first class ranks and for the camping Marriott badge- it is appropriate and permissible, unless it is stated otherwise in the requirements to use those matching activities for both ranks and the Marriott badge, Where matching requirements are oriented towards safety, such as those related to first aid or CPR, the person signing off the requirements should be satisfied that the Scout remembers what he learned from the previous experience, And I think that says it all, doesn't it? So not only in the instance that you stated, Jim, there are requirements that can be fulfilled within a single activity.

I think that the guide to advancement is very clear on this, especially where matching requirements are oriented towards safety. We wanna make sure that the Scout remembers what he had learned from the previous experience. Heard from Bill Chapman. He says: I'm a relatively new Scoutmaster and our troop had a history of focusing on advancement, with most troop meetings in a classroom and the instruction by the Scoutmaster or other adult instructor. We combined three small troops and we're trying to use the patrol method to have a scout led troop. In the beginning I spent a lot of time trying to train our senior patrol leader to run troop meetings and camp outs and to get our patrol leaders council up to speed.

But I did not grow up in Scouting and I don't have enough Scouting skills and experience to really train them. Well, I have an assistant Scoutmaster and no Scouting, but I worry about us directing the program too much.

How do we train our senior patrol leader to run the patrol leaders council and provide a good quality program without taking over and running it ourselves? Well, Bill, that is a great question.

How do you train the senior patrol leader to run the patrol leaders council and provide a good quality program without taking it over and running it ourselves? So let's pay attention to two key things that you said in asking that question. I'm gonna pick out two terms: One is training and the other is good quality program.

So let's begin with that first. What is a good quality program? And you're gonna determine that very subjectively, right, Every parent somewhere has a little drawing or a little lopsided clay statue or something that their child created and gave them, And I've used this as an illustration before.

But you'll remember, right, That little statue or that little drawing is not going to be in a national museum or the critics aren't gonna be writing about it, but to you it's priceless And we need to look at what our scouts are doing and the quality of our program from precisely that perspective. When you start to see just how much scouting is actually going on in the midst of all the chaos and things that look kind of disjointed, well, you begin to get the idea- And we talk about this a lot- because scouting is unique and it requires a unique perspective on the part of the adults involved. I'll bet that there's a lot more quality in what your scouts are doing than your first thought.

Now, the other term that I wanted to take a little time to talk about was training, And I would probably prefer, for the most part, that scouts forgot what they know about training youth leaders, because we have a tradition of session and event-based training that I don't think works very well, Not because I think that the sessions and the event-based training are totally ineffective or they don't have any good content to them, but because of the attitude with which most scouts regard them. Hey, you've been to training, you know what to do.

Now I'm all done. Here we go. But the difficulty is is there's no way you can train a person to be a leader. The only way you become a leader is by leading right, Not by being trained to be a leader. You have to actually start leading, and that's what you're gonna do with your scouts. Be mindful that every contact you have with your senior patrol leader and your patrol leaders council is an opportunity for developing youth leadership.

Go slowly and incrementally and ask lots and lots of questions designed to help them discover things and build on it a little at a time. You say you don't have a whole lot of experience with scouting.

Well, you know what You're going to learn right along with them and if you're humble enough to say that to them, they're gonna work right along with you and you're gonna develop your skills as a Scoutmaster as they develop their skills as youth leaders. If you're doing a restart, if you're kind of starting from scratch, this is gonna work really well. You may first have to model some of the things for the scouts. You may need to show the senior patrol leader how to be a senior patrol leader. You may need to show patrol leaders how to be patrol leaders, but then you can hand it off to them as they catch on.

The biggest mistake we make, I think, sometimes in working with youth leaders is we think we can sit down and in one sitting, explain everything to them and they got it and we're done from there. But it never really works that way. Don't overload them, don't over instruct. Give them one or two things to work on at a time.

Let them try them out, maybe even show them how it works by doing it yourself and then let them at it. As time goes by they'll begin to pick up on things and they'll begin to model the behavior and skills of leadership for the new scouts that joined the troop. Then you have this kind of self perpetuating model right. But our role in the process is mentors and questioners. Continually developing youth leadership never stops. I got this question.

I don't concur with the way my Scoutmaster runs leadership elections. He says anyone should be eligible to be elected senior patrol leader.

I say we should limit the eligibility for senior patrol leader and other important positions for the scouts who are on their way to star and life ranks and at least 15 years old. Well, you know I understand your concern, but I'm gonna say I agree with your Scoutmaster. Any scout ought to be able to put themselves forward to be elected the senior patrol leader. If we reserve that only for scouts who needed a position of responsibility for advancement, or we thought we're qualified or we wanted only older scouts running for that position, we're denying the chance to a younger, perhaps more talented and mature scout, or a scout is otherwise a good leader but really isn't interested in advancing in rank. David wrote to me and said I'm looking for some guidance on high adventure patrols. Eventually our scouts want to go on high adventure tracks and we've been breaking up existing patrols and creating high adventure patrols that train and prepare for the track.

This has the side effect of abandoning boys in the old patrol that aren't interested in the high adventure track and I believe it hurts the patrol method. I'm looking for advice on how others have dealt with this. David, I really don't see much practical use in resetting patrols around a high adventure trip. In my experience, when we've had a high adventure trip scheduled, which we do every single summer, the guys who are gonna form that crew aren't preparing for and training during troop meetings or camping trips for the high adventure trip. They're following a separate schedule of things like that.

For the most part, these scouts are mostly our troops' youth leadership, so it wouldn't work to have them distracted from doing that during troop time. So I think that's a reasonably simple solution. You don't need to reset the troops patrols. You need a separate schedule for the guys who are going on high adventure. Heard from Craig Dixon, who is the Scoutmaster troop 682 in Poe, California. One of my scouts ran for senior patrol leader two times and he wasn't elected either time.

I'm quite sure he's disappointed. What would you say to him And do you have any suggestions for how I or the new senior patrol leader can keep him involved and maybe take advantage of his skills?

Well, Craig, let's talk to the scout. Let's ask if he's disappointed- Maybe he is, maybe he isn't- And how he's coping with that. If he is disappointed, You probably have a story of disappointment from somewhere in your life and how you coped and you can work through that with him. I would tell him how valuable a resource he is as a leader and that you would like to know exactly how he'd like to serve his fellow scouts.

Ask him what he wants to do, what kind of work he enjoys, and then work out how you're gonna make that happen for them. Maybe it's something like scribe or quarter master, instructor or dent chief, And if those are positions of responsibility, don't appeal to him. Develop one that fits. If he's 15 or 16 years old, you can do what I've done many times, and that is have the senior patrol leader appoint that person to be a junior assistant Scoutmaster, who then can take on whatever general or specific responsibilities interest them. A first class or star scout can fulfill a tenure position of responsibility for star or life by completing what's called a Scoutmaster assigned leadership project, And I've used that on many occasions as well. Where I'll sit down with a scout, we'll define the project, we'll define the parameters of a project, the expectations of exactly what he'll be doing, and we've done that successfully many, many times.

Hey, if you have a question that you could use a little help with, you can get in touch and you're gonna learn how to do that in just a moment. ["Squad Master Podcast"].