Scoutmaster Podcast 236

I'm John Nelson and I'm an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 947 in Westchester Ohio. This addition to the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like me And now the old Scoutmaster.

So you go to? You go to summer camp or a round table or a big meeting and there's lots of scouters there and everybody's talking to one another.

How do you know if you're talking to a commissioner? It's going to be easy, because that's among the first things that they will tell you.

Okay, my apologies to commissioners everywhere.

Hey, this is podcast number 236.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag We heard from Brent Dixon, who is an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 192 in the Central Florida Council. He wrote in to say thanks for all you do to inspire and give us great ideas and better ways to help our scouts enjoy the journey of scouting.

I have been trying to find a song or audio clip unsuccessfully for a while now, and I'm hoping you can help me. A few years ago on your podcast, You used to play a clip that I think is called: He's my all time favorite Boy Scout. I would love to get hold of that song. It's catchy and fun.

I think the scouts would enjoy it. Well, Brent, I sent you a link to that song and I'll also have one in the post that contains this podcast, And the song is called Scout Boy. It's easy to find. You can buy it on Amazon for a buck And, yeah, it's one of my favorite songs too.

Shall we hear a little bit? Right now There's just a little bit, which is usually enough for everybody. Mike Martin is an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 186.. Thanks for all you do with the website and all the attachments to it. It's a great resource. I'm writing to ask what your recommendation would be for a patrol stove.

I'd like something small, probably like one burner, that can fit into a small patrol box. Well, thanks for your kind words, Mike It's. I'm always happy to hear that people find things at scoutmastercgcom useful. I'm going to share a link with you to a wood burning stove called the Echo Zoom.

It's not real tiny, but we bought these three or four years ago for our patrols and they work great and they burn wood, So you don't have to worry about gas canisters or anything like that. And there's a new one that my buddy Walter just told me about that.

I'm going to do a post on this week, So keep an eye on scoutmastercgcom. Heard from Paul Fife who said: hello, I let my troop choose their own patrols for the first time on Monday night.

I think it scared them, but I look forward to seeing how things changed. Thank you for your advice.

Well, Paul, that's the way it works and it is a little scary at first. And you know, the sweet spot, where we want to be most of the time as a scouters is to be just a little bit uncertain, Not to really know what's coming next, because a lot of times that means that our scouts are invested in making decisions and running their troop, and that's really what we want to see.

Jeff Freeman got in touch and he said: may I borrow images from your site when quoting parts of it or sharing links on my own blog? And my reply to Jeff was, of course- and I got a look at his blog and actually posted about it this past week. Go to scoutmastercgcom. You'll see a link in the post: Jeff scouting blog. Take a look at it. I really enjoy reading blogs by other scouters who are keeping track of what they're doing and offering their opinions and their ideas.

So check out Jeff scouting blog And, as I often say, everything that we do at scoutmastercgcom is designed and offered to advance the cause of scouting. So share it, use it. You don't really need my permission to do so. As long as you send a link back to us, we're happy to have you use it.

Well, let's see Over the past week that several posts- one was in reply to a just this random comment I saw- about whether or not I was lucky to have a bunch of older boys who run the troop for me. Well, I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of really great young people. But read that post because it's not all luck. No, not at all. And see replied in the comments. Clark, yes, it's true that younger scouts are capable to, because I did mention that in that post.

It's not just older scouts who are capable of taking on leadership positions and positions of responsibility. Younger scouts can do it too. And see went on to say I have more than once had to remind an older scout that they started leading about the same age as the scout who they currently think is too young. Been there, done that.

There's another benefit that's not readily apparent about youth leading their troop and no doubt you know about it, but I think it's worth mentioning. I suspect you really do have more older scouts than other troops. I know we do because we use the patrol method.

We have about 50% high school age scouts. They stay with us because they feel they're achieving something, They have actual responsibility by planning, leading and instructing other scouts.

And yeah, I agree, You know, once scouts hit that 13,, 14 year old age, they're not very interested in sitting and listening to you talk anymore. What, what they're really interested in is having a stake in the action, the responsibility of leadership. That's what has always been the older boy program and scouting. It's no big secret. But a lot of times we find that adults are taking all those responsibilities and the scouts really don't have all that much to do and they go find other things to do. Let's see another post.

This past week was- Well, it was a little bit of a humorous post about the secret laws of adolescents. And if you haven't seen that and you want to laugh, go ahead scoutmastercgcom and look for that post- the secret laws of adolescents- and see if you remember them. And if you remember any others that I didn't include in that post, get in touch with me. Hey, if you're a regular reader and listener, if the information and the ideas that we offer have helped you, you can return the favor by making a one time contribution as a scoutmastercgcom backer. The funds we get from backers go towards the expenses of producing and publishing the blog posts and the podcasts and the videos and all the other resources that are accessible to scouts all over the world. It's pretty easy to do.

Go to scoutmastercgcom, click the support link at the top of the page. You can choose any level of support and some of those entitle you to premiums like autograph copies of my books.

So take a moment to do that If you haven't already. Normally I take a little time to thank people who've signed up to be backers since the previous podcast, but I got to tell you this week nobody did, and you know that's fine.

Sometimes things are a little slow, but if you have a chance this week and you have not yet become a backer and you'd like to do so, hit scoutmastercgcom, go to the support link. You'll find out exactly how to do that In this week's scoutmaster podcast in scoutmastership, in seven minutes or less, We have our second installment of a four part series on the patrol method and this is going to discuss the adult role when it comes to the patrol method.

And then we've got an email question to answer and that's going to take up the remainder of the podcast. So let's get started.

Shall we scoutmastership? In seven minutes or less,

This is our second installment about the patrol method. We talked about the character school a little bit last week and tried to describe exactly why the patrol method is important and let's talk about the adult role of putting the patrol method into practice.

And to do that, I want you to imagine a bus tour of some important city where you're seated in the air conditioned comfort of a motor coach and you're going to listen to the guide explain each landmark in detail. Right, the guide has a script, they- and we sit there behind our tinted windows and we look to the left and we look to the right, We listen to the guide and there's so much explaining going on that there's not a whole lot of time left for questions.

Soon The tour is over, you know, and and we we think that we've learned some things, but we've basically been sitting in this nice air conditioned bus just looking at things. Now contrast that tour with a hike led by another knowledgeable guide.

Now this guy takes up the rear of our group and let's us find our way forward. Where the path branches, he'll tell us which way to go if we ask, and if we can't figure it out on our own, he doesn't mind if we stop now and then to admire a flower taking the view, and it will happily tell us what we're looking at if we ask. But he's not going to volunteer a whole lot of information. He's not going to be at the head of the group telling us what happens next. He'll drop a hint here or there and he'll answer our questions.

And you know what? We may miss some things along the way, we may pass by some interesting things, but our group will probably get more out of what we discovered on the hike and asked about then, the things that the guide on the bus told us about. As you may imagine, guiding scouts using the patrol method is more like the hike than the bus tour.

Does that make sense? It's a gentle push in the right direction rather than dragging them along. It's a suggestion rather than a command. It's a question asked rather than an answer given.

So the key thought is: the adult role in the patrol method is more responsive than directive. Each group of scouts is different, so how we play our role is a response to their development, the dynamics of the group and their abilities. There's a big difference between guiding and coercing. If we follow the metaphor I started with, our group of hikers has some idea of where they want to go and the guide is responding to them rather than determining what we're going to be interested in. We ought to respond to the interests of our scouts rather than determining what they should be interested in. The field of play is scouting.

We guide them within that context and we train them to follow the program. Now our role in scouting is important, but we're not in the leadership structure. We aren't even on the chart.

We have a senior patrol leader. We have patrol leaders. Scouts form their own patrols. They elect their senior patrol leader and patrol leaders. We don't appoint them. We respond to the choices made by the scouts and start guiding the leaders they selected.

Now, last week we talked about decorations and indicators that we think the content of meetings and camping trips and things like that are all important, but they're actually just decorative. We think that metrics of attendance and membership and fundraising and advancement are important, but these are just indicators. There are troops where the patrol method is watered down to this kind of administrative nicety, just a way to divide scouts into more manageable groups and provide figurative leadership positions for scouts. But when we really put the patrol method into practice, that kind of thing changes drastically. Since people are usually resistant to the dramatic change, there are going to be objections.

And then the third in this series of four talks about the patrol method. We're going to talk about those objections, so let's review where we are.

So far. We know the patrol method is the way scouting works.

It's not just one that we can choose from a menu of choices about how scouting works. We're always using the patrol method and now we ought to understand the adults role in it. We're really not on the leadership chart. We're not there leading the patrol. We're not there coercing the actions of scouts. We're putting them on a path, we're describing the path to them, we're giving them a map and we're following their lead.

They're going to elect their own leaders, they're going to shape and form their own patrols and they're going to move things forward. And in my experience that's vastly different than the way the patrol method is practiced in a lot of places.

So when we begin suggesting that this is the way to do it, they're going to be some objections. Next week we'll talk about those. There's a quarter master. Everybody knows there's a song about him. This is how it goes. Just a little bit he doesn't mean a thing, but when the boys are marching how they love to sing, there were mice- mice eating up the rice in the stores.

In the stores there were rats- rats big as blooming cats in the quarter master store. My eyes are dim. I cannot see. I have not brought my specs with me. I have not brought my specs with me.

Email that is, folks, and here's an answer to one of your emails. I received this email in the past week and I'm really interested in talking about it because I think it's a great expression of what a lot of people feel.

And the author of the email asked to have their name withheld, so I'm doing that. But they got in touch with me and said: I had a terrific experience in scouting as a youth.

My son is now a Cub Scout and I am his den leader. Like many parents, I'm concerned that my son may lose interest in scouting over the years, because he really enjoys sports and there are so many other things out there that it seems like we're fighting an uphill battle sometimes.

Do you have any suggestions for keeping him engaged? It seems to me sometimes like scouting has become the alternative activity for children who don't play sports.

Do you see that as well? It seems like in Cub Scout recruiting we focus a lot on outdoor activities and my son enjoys that, but the advancement requirements seem focused around indoor activities like crafts and things like that. Any ideas you have on this would be much appreciate. I'd love for him to have an experience as great as mine.

While I really appreciate your email and I think one of the most important things Cub Scout leaders can learn and apply to their work is that scouting is a progressive program. In the BSA we have tiger cubs.

Is that where we starting Cub Scouts and you're working right along with a parent throughout the year that you are a tiger cub? Then the next year you become a wolf- and family involvement is still very important- and the next year become a bear and you begin working more with a den leader. Then you did as a wolf and we blows. You learn to work more with each other based on the patrol method, but the den leader is still very important in a scout troop. You're working together with your fellow scouts to lead yourselves, with progressively less adult oversight and inventures. You're working with your fellow scouts to plan, lead and present all the activities.

Each of these steps along the way the program presents progressive opportunities for outdoor experiences and age appropriate advancement challenges. Now, as you know, there's more indoor activities involved with cubs and these are designed to be age appropriate and provide plenty of opportunities to work on things with your family and with your den leader. But as boys become more capable to enjoy camping, those opportunities increase.

The other really important thing to remember is that all of this, all the Cub Scout crafts and all the activities in the badges, the camping and the adventure, they all have an ulterior motive, don't they? And that ulterior motive is forming character.

We need to keep our eye on that aim. Sometimes it gets a little lost in the excitement and things get a little off track. Most of the folks who volunteer to lead Cub Scouts are really energetic, engaged and driven people.

They have to be, because you know that that's intense work and sometimes all of this energy and engagement and drive can translate into an all or nothing approach or going just kind of a little over the top with things. So, as you're working with your son as his den leader, it's important to have a broad perspective of the entire program and to understand where you are on the trail of this progression. Don't push them forward, don't hold them back. Just stay within the context of the program.

Now, as for sports and the myriad of other things that are available to children, I think it's important to understand we are never in competition with these activities. We cooperate with them. Scouting is never an all or nothing activity. When a family chooses scouting, it ought to be understood. They choose all of the above.

We want our scouts out doing things in their schools and communities. We want them taking the character that they are forming in scouts and applying what they have learned in scouts to sports, to band, to all the clubs and all the other activities they can be involved in.

Now I know this creates scheduling conflicts and things like that, and it's our challenge to work with those things, but we really need to keep our eye on the aim. We're forming character and the scouts are taking that character out into the community, out to their school. That's what we really want to see happening.

So if we consider that we're in competition with the other things in a scouts life, I think we get ourselves mixed up. We don't need to be in competition with any of that, we're cooperating with it. Somewhere around the 7th grade, our boy wanted to quit scouts and at that age, seriously, they're still waking up in a new world. Every day they're not quite sure what's going on around them.

Sometimes they've got all kinds of ideas and energy and it's a wonderful, wonderful, yet challenging age, isn't it? And you know, what we said was that scouts was not going to be an option. It was something that he was going to do.

Now that sounds a little heavy-handed. Maybe it is, I don't know.

But we did this because we understood two things: the value of the scouting program and his participation in it, and the vicissitudes of those years of adolescents. They're going to try out all kinds of things and that's fine.

But what they're looking for a lot of times in that is they're looking for some kind of a response that says: you know, scouts is something that you're going to do. You might not like it all the time, and you know what he didn't. He griped and complained for a month or two.

But once he found out we met business, he kind of acquiesced and he did what he had to do and you know what he found? He found that he loved it anyway. Subsequently he went on to become an Eagle Scout and he'll tell you today, if you ask him, he wouldn't have had at any other way.

And you know I'm kind of glossing over this- and I understand that managing a child's schedule and giving them some direction, that's a really tough job for parents. We really want them to be happy, we want them to have the advantage of all these different opportunities and activities, but at the same time we have to help them make decisions. If you decide your child is going to be a scout, stick with it. There is no practical way they're going to be able to do everything and it's up to us to help them sort things out. Our son came home from some scout activities and complained about having to do them. He came from from others that were- quote the best time I've ever had in my life, unquote- wishing he could do them all over again.

He had the same kind of reactions with school. He wasn't all that interested in sports but he was very involved with other clubs and activities we helped him choose and manage and we had to say no a few times. That's what parents do, and we do that simply because children don't have the kind of experience that helps them make an informed decision.

And all of this begins to answer the question in this email: how do I keep him involved? Well, you decide that this is what you're going to do and you stick with the decision.

Of course, every child is going to show interest or ability for things outside of scouting and you're going to be called on to kind of manage that involvement and you know what. You may have to change course if things aren't working out as you expected. But that's not something you can decide on today. You're going to have to cross that bridge when you get to it. You're going to be at loggerheads with your child sometimes, but that's to be expected. Not every child is going to stay in school.

If they had the choice right- and to tell you the truth, how many of us, for that matter, would really rather not going to work tomorrow morning? Okay, there are some things that we do. It's not necessary that we do them, because they're the most engaging, exciting and wonderful things that we've ever done in our lives, but because we know that they're the right things to do. Our boy is 30 now. He and his wife have a little girl and it's still sinking in that I am actually a grandparent. Wow, the one thing that nobody has any way of understanding, unless they have older children, is how fast childhood goes by.

Think about this for a moment. You're going to have a child and they're going to progress through all the wonderful and challenging stages of growing up.

At some point they're out on their own and then you know what like. There's a lot of life left after that and those years where you have the advantage of working along with them in a program like scouting. They're very, very short in comparison to what comes after, and I have never run into anybody who regretted spending too much time with their child and scouts. Never I've talked to those who wish they had realized how fast this was all going to go by and that they had spent a great deal more. I hope that helps answer the question and address some of your concerns. If you have a question about scouting and like a little advice, you can get in touch.

You're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.