Scoutmaster Podcast 230

I am Daniel Desjardins and I am a Scoutmaster with through 426 in London Dairy, New Hampshire. This edition of the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like me And now the old Scoutmaster.

So there we are at summer camp. First day scouts are headed out.

The senior patrol leader notices one of the younger scouts is walking a little awkwardly and so he stops him and he says: you having a problem there or something? You don't look very comfortable.

And he says: and the scout looks at him and says: Well, you know, it's kind of hard to wear seven pairs of socks at the same time. The senior patrol leader shakes his head and he says: What do you mean?

Seven pairs of socks at the same time? Why are you wearing seven pairs of socks?

And the scout says: Well, I know we're supposed to change socks every day, But to save time I'm just going to wear them all and I'll take one pair off every morning. Oh my, yes, masters of time and motion studies, these scouts

Aren't they? Hey, this is podcast number 230.. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag and see what's going on out there. Oh, let's see, we had a new review from SCJ about my book, the scouting journey, posted on Amazoncom, And it says: great summary, takes much of the old scouting literature, summarizing It, puts it in a language that's easy to understand.

Well, great, I'm glad that that worked. I've purchased several copies to give to my fellow scouts, who are all on the same page when it comes to managing the troop.

Well, I think that's fantastic. And if you're not familiar with it, my book, the scouting journey, it's available on Amazon. It's also available at scoutmastercgcom in an ebook version that actually includes my other book, thoughts on scouting.

So go to scoutmastercgcom and check that out. And thank you, SCJ, whoever you are, for that wonderful review.

Now, as you've learned for the past several weeks, if I'm working on the blog and I'm working at my desk and I have the time, I will turn on the live chat at scoutmastercgcom. I heard from Daniel Dominguez this past week. He said I found you looking for information about scouting. I am from Paraguay, South America. Keep up the good work. Very interesting information.

Be prepared, which, in Paraguay, I happen to know because I met some scouts from Paraguay. I think it was at the 1989 National Jamboree. If you want to go back that far. Be prepared is siempre listo.

How about that? I remembered it.

Craig Dixon is a scoutmaster from Troop 682 in Poway, California, And he said: I came across an article that sums up why many of us are scouts, And it is a great article and I'll make sure to link to it in the post that contains this podcast And I want to quote from the article. If you have some stability and love in your life, sooner or later you'll probably have the experience of being nominated by a child from a troubled family to nurture them. You're not asked to be nominated, nor will your input be sought on the selection, because the child is a nominating committee of one. And, Craig, I appreciate you pointing that article out to me because it does express something that we don't often talk about.

But I think that we all understand we all get just so many opportunities in life to make a difference And a lot of times will be nominated to make a difference, not by some extensive selection committee or something like that, but by the heart of a child who needs our help And recognizing that we have been nominated. That's a pretty big deal.

So thanks, Craig, for that thought. Craig also went on to say that he's been enjoying the horseshoe webcam And you know what?

I'll put up a link so that you can check it out too. And next week you can see me at summer camp maybe. But the camp that we'll be attending, it has a webcam that's on all summer, And Craig was there in the 1970s, even though he's out in California now.

So we share that little point of reference in common, don't we? Thanks once again, Craig, for getting in touch and sharing that article. I also heard from Sergio Ricardo Carey, who is with Scout Troop SP02 in San Paulo, Florida, Brazil, And he wrote to say: I'm a scout leader and I've been reading some of the articles at scoutmastercgcom sent to me by one of my old scout leaders. I'm also a translator from English to Portuguese here in Brazil.

I believe some of your articles would be useful for Brazilian scout leaders. Would you be interested in having the articles translated into Portuguese? I'd love to help and spread my knowledge among my colleagues.

Well, I certainly would, Sergio, And I've been. Well, I did reply to Sergio and he's going to translate some of the articles I've written into Portuguese for Brazilian scouts.

I'm just so pleased about that, And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while. You know that sometimes I have enough trouble with English, let alone Portuguese.

But I'm glad the message is getting out there And I'm so happy that Sergio's volunteered to help us with that. Thank you, Sergio. Also heard from Thomas Kepley, who said I was referred to your site by my cousin and a backer of yours, Gant Edmondson.

I have two boys in scouting who are 10 and 12 years old and I've been involved as an assistant cubmaster and treasurer of our Cub Scout pack, But now I've been tapped to serve as scoutmaster of the Boy Scout Troop that my boys will be part of. I want to be involved, but I'm a little concerned about the time involved in this commitment and my lack of experience in scouting. I've begun listening to your podcast, or there's certain ones you suggest I put on my first listen list. First of all, Tom, thanks for finding us And thank you, Gant, for recommending the blog and the podcast to your cousin there. I don't really have a list of what you should start listening to first, But I'm sure once you start looking around on the blog and look at the podcast archive you'll pick out some subjects that you'd like to become more familiar with, And congratulations on the idea of becoming a scoutmaster Around here. We call it jumping into the volcano And it's nice and warm down here.

So you know, come in, join us. Michael Grow writes to us from Lake Arrowhead, California. I volunteer at Forest Lawn Scout Reservation teaching astronomy and radio merit badges. I contacted you about a year ago about putting the podcast on our camp radio station And we currently are broadcasting them at 7am and 5pm Monday through Friday.

I want to thank you for all your efforts in serving the scouting community. Our website is flsrradioorg where you can listen to the radio station stream- And I did, And it's really cool.

You know they have a real radio station and it's broadcasting and you can stream it live and check it out. It's flsrradioorg. Thanks for sharing the podcast with everybody there at Forest Lawn Scout Reservation.

Well, it is summertime and next week I'm off to scout camp. That's right. On Sunday I'm off to camp for the week And, if all goes according to plan, all next week you'll get a letter from camp every day. That's right, Every single day. I know scouts don't do that reliably, but I'm going to do my best to post a letter from summer camp every day.

So keep an eye on scoutmastercgcom. You can go over there and you can register to get updates to the blog by email And that way you'll be able to keep up with me. Next week.

I won't be publishing a formal regular scoutmaster podcast next week, Just so that you know. We're going to let the podcast take a little rest, but I will be sending you a letter every day from scout camp, So make sure you tune in for that. Before we move on into the rest of the podcast, let me answer this question for you.

How do we make all this happen? Well, as you heard at the beginning of this week's podcast, we have backers based on a very simple premise: If you find what we're offering is helping you in your work as a scouter, you can return the favor by joining the growing number of scouts who financially support the creation of these resources by becoming backers. Go to scoutmastercgcom, click on the support link at the top of the page and you'll learn how you can help.

And within this past week, I want to make sure to take the time to thank Eric Gilliam personally for becoming a backer last week. It really matters and it really does count.

So thank you very much, Eric. In this week's podcast in Scoutmaster'ship, in seven minutes or less.

We're going to talk a little bit about what I call the internal standard that we're working to create in our scouts, And then I've got an email question to answer, so that's going to take up the remainder of the podcast. Let's get started, shall we? Scoutmaster'ship in seven minutes or less.

Just yesterday- this is Sunday- in a feature that we call Baden Powell's blog, where we're posting something that Sir Robert Baden Powell, the founder of the worldwide scouting movement, wrote during his lifetime, And the title of this week's post was The Other Fellow's Point of View, And I want to quote from that a little bit to introduce the idea of an internal standard to you. Baden Powell wrote: we in the Scouts desire not so much to cure present social evils as to prevent their reoccurrence in the rising generation. If our lads were trained as a regular habit to see The Other Fellow's Point of View before passing their own judgment on a dispute, what a difference it would make.

So just this idea, this one aspect of character, of understanding The Other Fellow's Point of View, got me to thinking about what defines the character that we're trying to inspire. What is it that we can do for our scouts so that they have the capacity, as Baden Powell said, they are trained as a regular habit to see The Other Fellow's Point of View before passing their own judgment.

And I think that the character we are trying to inspire is perfectly defined in the Scout Oath and Law. It doesn't really need any more embroidering than that. The Scout Oath and Law stand pretty much on their own as an expression of values and ideals that have been the common currency of every enlightened human society throughout history.

How about that? I mean, that's a pretty big claim, isn't it?

How do we affect our scouts? How do we accomplish the idea of getting them to internalize the Scout Oath and Law?

So it's something that, throughout the rest of their lives, that they can call on as they set their path in life. And I would say we do that by creating opportunities for our scouts to exercise their understanding of the Scout Oath and Law, To build this internal standard of ideals and conduct that, as Baden Powell said, don't so much cure present social evils as prevent their recurrence in the rising generation.

So what opportunities do we create? Well, just everything that scouts do, of course, will give them experiences that call upon that an internal standard: Working together as a patrol and going camping and meetings and doing everything that scouts do. They have to call continuously on that internal standard to be able to listen to the other fellow's point of view and to make good judgments and good choices about the way that they're going to approach things and the way that they're going to behave. There are other really important opportunities that sometimes we may miss. One of them is Scoutmaster Conferences.

In the advancement scheme that is followed by the Boy Scouts of America, prior to advancing in every rank you have to have had a Scoutmaster Conference, And there's a lot of verbiage about Scoutmaster Conferences, but basically what it is is very simply sitting down with a scout and having a discussion with them about scouting and about their progress in scouting. And as we do that, if we ask them some questions, we get them to begin to exercise the internal standard that we want to build By inquiring about their understanding of the ScoutOath and Law.

And the more practical we can be with those questions, the better. The more we can refer to things that they have participated in and that have happened to them, the better we can build on that internal standard.

Now, as a matter of course, many of us at a Scoutmaster's Conference are also signing off a couple of common requirements to every rank. One is Scout Spirit and Active Participation And also their understanding of several points of the Scout Law in the ranks up to first class. In the more senior ranks we're talking about the way they've performed in a position of responsibility.

So the best way to begin to exercise that internal standard, that standard of judgment that we want them to carry through the rest of their lives, is to ask them how they judge themselves against those requirements. Do they think they've met those requirements?

Why do they think they've met them? How does the ScoutOath and Law bear on the conduct that they have exhibited over the past period of time since our last Scoutmaster Conference? It's a very rich field of inquiry and, handled correctly, It's a wonderful way to build that internal standard. Another really great opportunity for us is when the Patrol Leaders Council is gathered. Our role as Scoutmasters at the Patrol Leaders Council is principally listening, And when you listen what you'll hear is you'll hear Scouts exercising that internal standard that we're building according to the ScoutOath and Law. You'll hear them solving problems and making plans and commenting on the way things are going, And occasionally the opportunity will be presented for you to ask a great question that calls on that internal standard, their understanding of the ScoutOath and Law.

You're not offering your understanding of it, quite so much as calling on them to make their own judgments according to their understanding of the ScoutOath and Law. If they ask you what you think, well, then you have the opportunity to share that. But instead of making statements or making judgments, if we ask questions that probe their understanding, we're really going to exercise that internal standard.

Now we do have an opportunity to make statements and to define that standard in the Scoutmaster Minute And so paying attention to that and making sure that it's a meaningful and understandable and brief, because you get a minute and a minute is 60 seconds, it's not 90 seconds. You know what I say.

You've got their attention for so much time, so make it count. But you can talk about that internal standard, You can talk about stories that demonstrate it and build on those principles.

So, just to review this concept and this way of looking at things, Our aim is to build character, and character comes from internalizing the ideals and values that are expressed in the ScoutOath and Law, And each one of us needs to internalize that individually And there are several ways for Scoutmasters to exercise that internal standard, As I said in Scoutmasters conferences, at the Patrol Leaders Council meeting and during Scoutmaster Minutes, In a way that bring these things to the surface and provide Scouts with the opportunity to exercise their understanding of these things. You're my favorite all time boy scout. You are always on the beat boy, beat boy. Yeah, You are always on the beat boy, beat boy. I'll hang you in the sweet boy, sweet boy.

You're my favorite all time boy scout. I have one great email question to answer this week and this email question comes from David.

He says I was wondering when did the troop guide become a position of responsibility in scouting And why was it installed? I'm guessing it might have been a countermeasure for adults wanting to mix up the patrols with various aged scouts.

We have a new Scoutmaster who wants to reorganize patrols to help with the training of younger scouts. Of course, my scouts have been together for two and a half years and some longer through Cubs. I'd hate to see their patrol split up when they've been together for this long, and I would really hate to see any group of friends split up.

Well, David, I hate to see that too. But let me tell you what my remembrance of the history of the establishment of the troop guide position is, And if you're not familiar with it, the troop guide position is basically a position of responsibility in which a scout helps guide a patrol of younger scouts.

And as I remember, this position of responsibility was established about 20 years ago as part of the first class in the first year initiative And the logic behind that initiative was that a leading indicator in membership retention is reaching first class within the first year. So it was suggested to scouts that this was a really good idea and it could be done by keeping scouts together in a patrol of scouts basically their own age. And this began with what was called the new scout patrol And this was a group of scouts bridging over from Webelos- And if you're not familiar with Webelos, that is the oldest division of Cub Scouts- And the tradition in the BSA is that once they've completed the two years of Webelos they then join a scout troop And it was the habit at the time and it remains the habit of a lot of scout troops to take those younger boys and divide them up into existing patrols of older scouts.

And research showed 20 years ago that that wasn't working out very well because it resulted in the attrition of a lot of those younger scouts And it was more promising to keep them together in their same age group. And to address the concern that a young patrol would have a lot of difficulty getting by, the position of troop guide was created, an older, experienced scout who was not functioning as the patrol leader but as a guide for the younger scouts who elected their own patrol leader and had their own patrol.

Now I don't think this was strictly a countermeasure for adults monkeying around with patrols, but as an encouragement to create conditions that made it more likely to retain members by providing a better experience for younger scouts. Some scouts seem to think that this works very well and they use this kind of new patrol concept today And some scouts use some kind of adaptation of it. My standard advice that determining who is in what patrol is up to the Patrol Leaders Council And they do that according to the wishes of the scouts themselves And those wishes are most often going to be based on ages and friendships.

Now I can understand why any Scoutmaster would think they could do a better job of setting up patrols and mixing up the ages and, you know, kind of balancing things out, But I think that's a misguided approach. Boys become scouts for one principal reason, And that is to go camping and do fun stuff with their friends. Anything else that happens is great, But from a boy's point of view, they are scouts for that one reason. In my experience, you don't increase the efficacy of training younger scouts by assigning patrols in the way that you think it's going to work best, by mixing up the ages and moving scouts away from their friends. This really ends up creating more problems than it solves. I've tried a lots of different ideas about the composition of patrols And many years ago tried assigning scouts to patrols by my own best lights And it never really worked.

Friendships and peer groups are much stronger than any assignment that I can make, And what I found was within the first few minutes of a troop meeting or a camping trip, scouts disregarded my patrol assignments to be with their friends or with their peer group. It was, you know. You would look up and maybe they lined up and started the meeting with their patrol And that was fine. But as soon as the meeting got going, they all kind of gravitated towards their friends or they gravitated towards their peer group and the patrols weren't really functioning And this put me in the continual position of breaking up those natural groups into the patrols I had set up. And of course that's pretty frustrating because I had to do it all the time And it didn't make me happy and it didn't make the scouts happy. What I finally learned was, instead of fighting the power of friendships and peer groups, that it was better to leverage that power.

Instead of creating problems for ourselves by trying to assign scouts to patrols that they don't really want to be in, I think it's more effective to work with the patrols that they form themselves. If we do that and focus on instilling the idea in our older scouts that they are responsible for the younger scouts, that they ought to be working with them and training them continuously, we find things work a lot better and that our scouts are happier and therefore we're happier right, This sense of responsibility in the older scouts. It can take some time to create, but once created, it does pretend to perpetuate itself.

So when scouts ask me, how do I set up patrols? You know, my standard advice is: you don't let the scouts take care of that and then deal with what they set up And if they create problems in the way they set up patrols, help them unravel the problems.

And a lot of people are very resistant to that advice because they think, well, scouts will just do it by popularity or by their friends and somebody will be left out. Well, you know, it all comes in how you approach this question with them. Everyone needs to be included, nobody's left out.

You need to form patrols as you see fit and then we'll solve any problems that your decisions create. And in my experience there are going to be many fewer problems than you would expect. If people are still resistant to this idea, I asked them how they would think about this scenario. Let's pretend that I am the commissioner for all the scout troops in your town and I've been empowered to maximize the efficiency of training and effectiveness among scouts.

So I'm going to reassign some of the scouts from your troop to a troop across town where they'll have a better effect. This means that I'll be sending a few of your pals from your troop to another troop across town and I'll be bringing some of those guys over to your troop just to balance things out, just to make training more effective, Because some of you guys, you're pretty new at this and you don't really know what you're doing.

They have a lot of guys who are older, So we're going to mix it all up. How would that make you feel?

Now, you might not be able to go camping with your son, but you know we're trying to do the best interest of the program and scouting. It may break up a few friendships, but you know you guys will deal with it because it's the most efficient way of doing things.

Now, if I was able to do that and I came to your troop and I talked to you and your assistant Scoutmasters, how would you feel? You wouldn't go along with it, would you? You'd be pretty upset about it, and rightfully so.

I'd imagine you'd fight this sort of thing or, you know, in lieu of that, simply give up on scouting all together. That's exactly how scouts feel if you start working against their friendships or ignoring their peer groups. They feel the same way. You're stepping in and breaking up things that are important to them, in the same way that that, commissioner, would be stepping in and breaking up things that you feel are important.

I think that once you see it from the scout's perspective, you're going to be a lot more careful about the methods that you employ to form patrols. David, I hope that all helps. If you have a question, you can get in touch with me and you're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.