Scoutmaster Podcast 225

I'm Chuck Wolfe and I am an assistant scoutmaster with Troop 342 in Raleigh, North Carolina. This edition of the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like me. Thanks for everything you do, Clark.

And now the old scoutmaster. Three scouters are taking a hike through the forest. There's two men and a woman and they're hiking through the forest and they reach the bank of this raging river. And the first man looks around and he says: a scout is prepared and he takes his axe and he starts chopping the entries to pioneer a bridge across the river. And the second man sees this and he thinks: hmm, I can do better than that. And he says: a scout is brave.

And he prepares to jump in the river and swim across this raging torrent. And the woman looks at her map and walks 20 yards upstream and crosses the footbridge.

You know, the first time I told that joke, I was told that I might have a corner taken off of my man card. But it's true, isn't it? Yes, it is. Hey, welcome to podcast number 225.. Hey,

Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag. This week we heard from Tom Routh who said thanks for all you do, for scouting. The resources you've compiled are invaluable. I was looking for a scout circle video from last October, but I couldn't seem to find it.

Is it still available? Well, Tom, I did the same thing. I couldn't find it either.

You know, we've tried doing the scout circle presentations on Google Plus and sometimes it works really well and sometimes things get a little mixed up somehow And I really don't know what's happened to that October video. I have had a couple of questions in the past couple of weeks about scout circle.

Hey, where's scout circle? Are we going to see a new presentation anytime soon?

And the answer is: I've just had to lay that aside for the time being, until I can get my collaborators together and we can put together a new presentation for you. And we're hitting the busy season for scouting right now. We've got summer camp coming up and a trip to Switzerland coming up.

So whether or not we're going to see a new scout circle soon is a question, But I've got a couple other interesting projects that I'm working on that I'll tell you more about in future podcasts and that you'll see online. Dan wrote in to say just a note to say thank you for the valuable info and resources you've made accessible to all leaders in scouting. I'm still relatively new to scouting and I'm looking for resources to work on my not tying skills in other areas such as camping and hiking and things like that.

Well, Dan, hopefully we can help you out a little bit. There's lots of great resources on the web. One of the really good places to look I have found for stuff like that is go to YouTube and search for a specific skill. It's pretty astounding the amount of information that's out there. Of course, some of the information isn't all that great, but there are some really good resources out there that I have found in the past. Heard from Jim Gregg, who's the Scoutmaster with Troop 199 in Old Wick, New Jersey, And Jim sent me some pictures of his scouts playing a game that we posted about, oh I guess, back a couple months ago, called the Whirling Jackstay.

It was actually in one of Enoch Highsey's posts about scout games And the Whirling Jackstay. I can't really describe it in a podcast, but it's a pretty active game. But anyway, Jim sent me some pictures- entertaining pictures- of his scouts playing that game. He said: you continue to make an impression on our scouts, on their ribs and their backs and their legs. It's a very fun game, the Whirling Jackstay and the boys played it at our Troop meeting this week. Thanks again for all you do.

Well, thank you, Jim. It certainly gave me a laugh. It's a great game And it's one of those games.

You know that's kind of rough and tumble And hopefully it didn't leave too many marks, but I'm sure they had fun doing it. I have the chat feature live over at scoutmastercgcom this week.

Every once in a while when I'm working at my desk, I'll turn on the live chat so that, if you're online at the time, we can have a chance just to chat a little bit. And I chatted this week with Hank from Troop 74 in Tucson, Arizona, and Cody from Troop 246 at Cypress, Texas.

We were all three on the chat at the same time and we had a great discussion. I really appreciate you guys checking in with me. It's difficult to tell when you're online chatting with people exactly who those people are.

But Hank from Arizona- I'm pretty sure that was Hank Schrader from Breaking Bad, if you know what I'm talking about. And Cody from Texas- I can't be sure, but it could have been Buffalo Bill Cody, right. I mean, who knows, Next time you're on the website at scoutmastercgcom, check the chat feature see if we're live. If we're not, you can always leave a message And we always appreciate hearing from everybody. Heard from Robin, who said I've gone back to podcast one to listen to them all. I'm currently on number 39, still can't get enough.

Thanks again. Such an inspiration.

Well, thank you, Robin. I know a lot of people go back and they work their way through number one all the way up to, I guess.

Well, let's see, we're at 225 right now. So that's a big investment of time and I really appreciate people doing that And I'm glad that they get something out of it. It's great. On the blog this past week- let's see here- We posted a new infographic about outdoor footwear- just some basics that can help you make choices. If you haven't seen that, check it out.

Got good response and a lot of interest And that infographic is now part of the Scoutmaster CG PDF package And that's available at scoutmastercgcom. It has over 40 infographics and useful PDFs for Scouters. They run the gamut of things like training youth leaders to knots and games and camping know-how. It's just a ton of stuff. And go to scoutmastercgcom and follow the link that you'll see in the right hand column to the PDF package, Also posted, about scouting in a dirty old duck puddle.

How about that for a title? The idea was based on a couple of quotes from Baden Powell about the kind of nature and temperament of the ideal scouter, And I found it really interesting and I had some thoughts about those quotes.

We did a review of David Scott's new book My Fellow Americans: Scouting and the Presidency this past week And if you haven't seen the book yet, I really recommend it highly. David's put together a very interesting narrative of the relationship between the BSA and the United States presidency over the past 100 years, And there's some really interesting stories and facts in there. If you're a fan of scouting history, you'll enjoy the read, And if you're a fan of scouting, you'll enjoy the read.

The review is online at scoutmastercgcom, So make sure you get online and go over and check it out. You can also see the post that we put up and listen to the podcast and everything. It's available from iTunes for Apple iPhones and iPads And it's also available for any Android device on Google Play.

So get the app and you'll be able to keep everything that we make right there at your fingertips on your mobile device And within this past week we've had a couple of new scoutmaster CG backers. Sign on, Let me explain something. If you buy the PDF package, I also make it possible for you to make a backer sponsorship announcement.

I'm not going to read off every single name of the people who buy the PDF package Because if I did that it would take 10 or 15 minutes a week, So I'm just not going to be able to make that happen. But people who choose the other levels of becoming a backer, I want to make sure to recognize them Now. The funds that we get from backers go towards the expenses of producing and publishing all the resources that we make available at scoutmastercgcom. Keep them freely available to scouts all over the world. If you've gotten something from the blog and the podcast and the other resources that we've created and you'd like to return the favor, become a backer, Go to scoutmastercgcom, follow the support link at the top of the page and you'll get all the details on how to make that happen.

And within this past week I want to make sure to thank Steve Sanders and Hank Rees for signing up and becoming backers. Really do appreciate it.

Let's see On this week's podcast, have a couple of good emails to answer, and that's going to take up the rest of the podcast, So let's get started. Shall we?

Tip me over and pull me out? Tip me over and pull me out. Tip me over and pull me out. Tip me over and pull me out. Write me a letter, send it by name Email. That is, folks,

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Now, both of the emails I'm going to answer this week deal with slightly tickler situations.

Both of the people who sent them to me asked me to keep them anonymous, And so I'm definitely going to do that. First email I was I want to look at this week came to me from a committee member and she said: I've been reading your site, which comes highly recommended by the other adults in our troupe. I was appointed to help as a committee member with some tasks that are clearly defined in the troupe bylaws and procedures that we've created. I've repeatedly tried to get information. I need to do the work I've taken on, but I've been told this information is only for the boys to handle. I was told it's better let them fail in a safe environment than to step in and try and micromanage things.

Frankly, I'm a little lost here. I simply am trying to help make things happen And I do think it's important to let scouts make these decisions. But allowing one scout to fail because he doesn't provide information to learn a lesson at the expense of all the others doesn't seem appropriate to me.

Is boy led really that way? It seems very disrespectful of the interest of a lot of other people to allow scouts to fail to deliver the program to them.

Am I completely out of line? I'm really trying to figure this out. I'd appreciate any insight you might be willing to provide. I'm not sure the headache of swimming upstream against some very domineering men is worth the stress of trying to be helpful.

Well, it sounds to me like you're being asked to aim at a moving target and I'm really sorry things aren't working out all that well. Let's see if I can be any help at all, because it appears that I may have been responsible for creating the problem in the first place.

Now, leaving my opinion of bylaws and other things like that aside, because I don't see a whole lot of purpose to them in scouting, It appears that you've been asked to take on a set of tasks that clearly require some kind of definition, some kind of information upfront, And it seems perfectly reasonable that you ask for that information. As you well know, I'm a strong advocate of scouts leading and planning their own activities and the teaching opportunity that failures and missteps represent, But sometimes- and I think you describe a pretty good example- this all gets taken to its logical absurdity.

Now, before I go any further, I want to really cheerfully acknowledge that I've been just as guilty of doing this as anyone, So this isn't really a stinging rebuke to the laudable intentions that are involved on the part of the other adults you're working with. I would suggest, though, that maybe they need to rethink things and make a couple of course adjustments. What folks miss is the kind of response of leadership that's required in situations like this. I mean, if, after multiple attempts to get some action on a matter, there's zero response from the youth leadership, we're going to need to respond because, as you've stated, there's more than just their interests and their development in question. There's another of other scouts and families involved in this too.

Now, there have been plenty of times in the past 30 years my patrol leaders council has just totally dropped the ball. They've done absolutely nothing.

Now, when this happens, I don't just say, well, this is a boy led thing and we can't really do too much about it. No, I have a frank heart to heart with the senior patrol leader and I tell him in no uncertain terms: you need to get moving. And normally he will take a step in my direction. It might not be a whole lot, but he moves a little bit and I respond with all kinds of supporting and encouragement. Sometimes this is like pulling teeth and sometimes it involves a lot of hand holding and sometimes feeding them information to work with. But I need to get them in the process of doing it.

I'm looking for the least indication of initiative in building on it. You can't just necessarily, in every situation like this, draw a hard line and say, well, unless they do a, we're not going to do B.

No, sometimes you have to make a happen and then build on the initiative that they respond with. Simply letting things like this slide for weeks at a time is not right And it approaches the logical absurdity that I mentioned earlier.

If this was a football team and the team showed up and they just laid down on the sidelines with the coaches just say: well, you know, it's their decision, There's nothing we can do about it? No, I hope not.

I hope they'd make some demands and issue some directions, And sometimes that's what needs to happen, Not as a matter of habit, where the adults are making all the decision, issuing all the directions and constantly micromanaging everything that the scouts do, But sometimes, if youth leaders are unresponsive, they need to be encouraged in every way possible to make a response, And then you build on that. While it's true we should foster and encourage youth engagement, It's never an on and off switch. There's a lot of different levels of ability and leadership and experience and the appropriate responses to those levels. That's demanded of us.

Now, I don't understand how anybody who's part of a committee and has been tasked with things that require information beforehand can overstep their bounds by asking for that information. I mean, it doesn't seem very logical to me.

How exactly is a perfectly reasonable request like that? Somehow you're surping the scouts ability to make decisions. I don't see it. I hope this begins to shed a little bit of light on the matter. In short, it appears to me that the attentions of the adults involved are good. They're just getting the execution flawed a little bit.

Not knowing any of the personalities or mitigating circumstances involved, I don't want to cast my advice of judgment about who's right or wrong, but these are observations based on what you've told me and my own experience, because you know I've been as guilty of this as anyone else. I want to take notice of your statement about domineering men and, in as much as it's possible, let me apologize for them.

I know it's not really possible, but perhaps it helps a little to let you know that I do understand what you're talking about. I've observed men and boys working together and scouting for a long time now and there are many different attitudes and actions to be overcome. Sometimes Many of us men mistake being compassionate or helpful for being unmanly.

Many of us think we need to make a scout's way difficult because this will somehow help them become tough and be a man. But to be brutally honest, we sometimes get disappointed and angry with our sons and with our scouts because we see a lot of ourselves in them. It's a painful thing for us and sometimes we react by striking back with meanness and harshness instead of responding with some compassion and understanding.

I think men a lot of times distrust compassion because we fear it will make our boys soft, It will make them somewhat less than real men. We fear the apron strings of childhood and we feel it's important to break them, and the way we do that isn't very pretty sometimes, Frankly. There are a lot of us who imitate our own upbringing and in our parenting- for good or ill, because it's all we really know. There's always been a tension between men and women, mothers and fathers about this type of thing, and that tension is just as real and scouting as anywhere else. What we all ought to do, men and women alike, is to take stock of our own reactions and feelings and do our best to rise to the higher ideals and potential in the scout oath and law. What you come to realize as a scouter is that you are growing and developing and learning right along with the scouts.

It's pretty amazing and it's a pretty great thing about being involved in scouting. The second email I received was from a gentleman who said this: I've just accepted the request to become a Scoutmaster and I hope to guide our troop away from adult leadership towards the scouts leading themselves. I have purchased the book Working the Patrol Method and I will read it as soon as I get it. Can you let me know if there are any other resources that may help.

I want to also know what training is best to do first as a new Scoutmaster, and what's the best course for training youth leaders. Well, first of all, congratulations on becoming a Scoutmaster. It's great fun, It's a big challenge.

Now, whatever has happened in the past and whatever your ambitions for the future of the troop, your first responsibility is always delivering the program to the scouts, And I think you get that. I'll hazard the guess that, based on what I hear and see, the majority of scouts are members and troops just like yours, that kind of are more adult than youth, led, maybe not really applying the patrol system and just kind of chugging along like they always have. I'd agree that this isn't necessarily the optimal experience, but remember, it's not doing any harm. As a matter of fact, it's doing a lot of good. My point is this isn't an emergency. Things are not going to change into what you'd like to see quickly.

It's going to take a little time and it will require a lot of forbearance and patience on your part. Now it's going to be great fun and things are going to change, but I'm just going to encourage you: don't rush, don't push and don't fret too much. Stay on the course. Make these changes, work with your scouts and you're going to get there. You've got a good start with the patrol method book. It's a great resource and I'm going to send you a copy of my book, The Scouting Journey, see if that helps.

As for which training to take first, you know it's fairly kind of dry what a Scoutmaster needs to be considered trained. So I would do that course of training and then take whatever time allows. Do it all. Take all the online training that you can, take all the in-person training that you can.

It certainly won't hurt, right? As for what training course I recommend for youth leaders, I really don't.

I don't think that youth leaders respond very well to that kind of event-based or course-based training. A lot of skills they need actually come pretty easy to them if you give them some space to develop.

Now let me get on my soapbox here for a second. How do you show somebody how to tie a square knot? You don't sit them down to a PowerPoint presentation on the history of cordage and knotting theory, right. You get a rope and you show them.

How do you share a game or a song with scouts? Do you sit them down?

Sit them down and draw a diagram of the game and go through all the rules and permutations of the game, or do you start playing and learn as you go along? If you're going to teach scouts to sing a song, do you hand out song sheets and rehearse the harmonies before you start, or do you just start singing? I just start singing. Personally, Scouts don't want or care much about theory. They want action.

Now, this is not to say that it's a that a little instruction is bad. I don't say that's bad, but what needs to come first is action. You won't fix things by sitting all the youth leaders down on a weekend and describing how things are going to change, because we aren't talking about throwing a switch here. Right, It isn't that easy.

What happens if you show up at the next scout meeting and you ask the senior patrol leader what his job is? Ask him to tell you What does he think his job is, What does he think he should be doing that he's not doing And what would he like to stop doing? I mean, maybe it's just making announcements at the closing of the meeting, or something simple that the adults are used to doing that the scout should take over, If you handle this right in your discussion with the senior patrol leader. He's going to go home thinking it was his idea all along. Of course you'll have to corral the adults and get them to stop doing some things, and that can be a bigger challenge. But they chose you to become the Scoutmaster and they're going to follow your directions.

Maybe not at first, maybe not joyfully, but ultimately they're going to get on board. Don't drop hints or ask questions of adults. You give them directions.

Here's a key thing to remember and I've often repeated it here: The Scoutmaster mentors and coaches as youth leaders, but he directs and leads adults. Of course you'll be good natured and affable, but firm. When you're talking with adults, You're jumping into the volcano. It's hot in here and it's challenging, hard work, but it's great fun. It's really great fun. I hope all this makes sense.

I wish I could give you three easy steps to success, but I can't. 95% of your work as a scouter is attitude and spirit. The skills and knowledge come with experience, but only if you approach the work in the right spirit and with the right attitude.

Do you have a question or conundrum that I might be able to help you out with? Well, you can get in touch with me, and you're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.