Scoutmaster Podcast 224

I'm Jonathan Brower and I'm a Scoutmaster with Troop 19 in Fort Wayne, Indiana. This edition of the Scoutmaster podcast is sponsored by backers like me. Thank you for all your insight and your experience. You help me be a better Scoutmaster.

And now for you. Scoutmaster Tom Brer is a Scatter with Scouts Canada, with the third Orleans Scout Group in Ottawa, Ontario, And he said that he suggested that his Scouts make Brad at camp, But unfortunately they pan the idea and they got downright crusty about it and said: don't not suggest that again. Yeah, I mean, the least you can do is keep calm. Maybe just loaf around a little bit, Tom, I don't know.

Oh, my Thanks, Tom, I think I think if you've got a better one, send it in. Hey, welcome to podcast number 224.. Hey,

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag. We heard from Jeff this week, who said thanks for putting all this knowledge in one place. I often use the blog, whether I'm looking for something I'm interested in or I'm using it as a reading assignment for new Scoutmasters. I'm helping to train.

Well, thanks, Jeff. I'm glad you're finding what we put out useful. We also heard from Steve Kearns, who's an advancement chair with the Portola district. He said: I just wanted to tell you, after months of procrastination, I became a backer today.

Well, thank you so much, Steve. I'm going to let everybody know how to do that in just a moment. I wanted to share with you how I found you and why I became a backer. About 18 months ago, I became the advancement chair for our district. After having been our troop advancement coordinator and guiding several Scouts through the Eagle process and being the district merit badge counselor coordinator. I was fortunate to get to attend Fillmont training center last summer and take the advancement course, which is, by the way, where I learned of your website and podcast.

That training experience opened my eyes to the lot of false tribal knowledge that substitutes for actual knowledge in Scouting. I learned to rely on the Guide to Advancement 2013,, which is an excellent explanation of the Scouting program and the advancement program. The training really energized me to elevate our district's advancement program away from some of the methods that treated advancement as the goal rather than only as one of the methods we use to achieve our mission in Scouting. I started listening to your podcast right after that and I haven't missed one yet. Each time I listen, it allows me to relive my Fillmont experience a bit and renew my newfound understanding of the advancement program as it fits in the overall program. I get a lot out of your messages.

I'd ask if you could include more information for those of us who support Scouting outside the troop and the pack level, as there's a lot of things district and council and Order the Arrow folks could learn from some of your advice. Thanks for all you do Well.

Thank you so much, Steve, for being in touch, And I do hear from a number of district and council people in Order the Arrow folks too, And if there's anything that I could include that would be helpful to you, let me know. I certainly would appreciate hearing from you. And again, once again, Steve, thanks for your thoughts and your kind words and for becoming a backer.

Now, last week I did one of my favorite things: I was able to get on the phone and talk with Youssef Hasi, And Youssef is over in Alexandria, Egypt, where he's a Scouter. I, incidentally, talked to him in France, where he's going to school right now, but they're getting ready to wind up and he's going to be heading back to Alexandria for a summer of scouting, And I love to talk to people all over the world about scouting, because when I do, I invariably find out that we all have this incredible world of experiences and the scouting spirit in common, And it doesn't seem to matter where you are in the world. I've talked to people in in the different European countries and in the Middle East and in Africa.

My intention was to record our conversation but I kind of messed it up- Sorry, Youssef, And I was going to feature some of it here on the podcast, But let me tell you, wherever you go in the world, if you find a fellow Scouter or Scouter, you know that you have this common experience and you know that you are connected. Our founder, Sir Robert Baden Powell. He saw scouting as a way to foster understanding and world peace And I've got to say, a hundred years later, it is doing exactly that. I'll be off to Kandersteg Scout Center in Switzerland this summer with a group of our Scouts And I'm really looking forward to that because I know I'm going to get to meet Scouts and Scouters from all over the world And it's just a fantastic experience. It's something that I highly recommend to you. Get your Scouts into one of those great international situations where you're going to meet other Scouts from all over the world.

You learn so much and you share so much. It's such a great experience And I want to thank Youssef for taking the time to talk to me and apologize for not being able to have the recording here, But what a great thing to do And I recommend it highly to you. Let's see. Last week on the blog we had several different posts.

One was a story about special needs scouting And it got me to thinking about the question: isn't every Scout in one way or another a special needs scout? I mean, they're all individuals. They all have their own talents and challenges. They all have their own family backgrounds and upbringing to deal with. Everybody has those kinds of needs And if you haven't read that post, go back and read it, because it features a story about a Scout and his dad who's involved with scouting, And this particular Scout is identified with Asperger's And it talks a little bit about their experience and how Dad's handling it and how the Scouts handling it. Scouting is a great place for everyone, no matter what their perceived limitations may be.

It's just a great place to learn about people, to learn to get along. Chris Simone, who's the Scoutmaster of Plandom Troop 71, wrote in about that post and he said: thanks.

I have Scouts who are identified with this sort of issue, So advice is always worthwhile. Well, I'm glad that you found that helpful, Chris. I also posted a new infographic last week, And this one was backpack basics- just explaining the different things that you want to look at when you're getting ready to choose a backpack. That infographic is available at scoutmastercgcom, as is our PDF package, which is a collection of over 40 infographics and other helpful PDF documents that you can get by going to scoutmastercgcom. Just follow the link at the top of the page and you'll be able to find out how you can get the downloadable PDF package. Then we had a couple of excellent posts from Enoch Highsey in Green Bar Life that talk about strategic impressions, And if you haven't read those posts, make sure you take a look at them.

Share them with your Scouts, especially those who are in positions of responsibility. It brings a new perspective to the Scout motto: be prepared.

That I think you'll find very useful. So make sure to take a look at that and also share it with your Scouts. Now.

Earlier we heard from Steve Kearns, who became a new backer this week, And I want to tell you just very quickly if you are getting something out of the podcast and the blog posts and all the other resources we create. You can become a backer And the funds that we get from backers are used to support the creation and publication of all of these resources, including the blog, including the podcast, And I want to take a moment just to once more to say to Steve Kearns and Brian Ehrler: thank you so much for becoming a backer in this past week. We really, really do appreciate. It keeps us up and running.

Well, this week, in Scoutmastership, in seven minutes or less, we're going to talk about building campfires. It's a metaphor.

Okay, You'll see. You'll see what I mean. It's a message that is in answer to a very common set of email questions that I get. And, speaking of email questions, I have some specific ones I'm going to share with you. After Scoutmastership, in seven minutes or less, That's going to take up the rest of

The podcast, So let's get started, shall we? Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less.

You know, this past week I received a couple of email questions that had a common theme And, I tell you the truth, pretty common email question that I get: The two Scouters I heard from along this theme the past week. We're asking: what do we do to get our Scouts to care about the program?

I mean that was the basis of what they were thinking, And you know what I mean about this. Right, There are times when it seems that the Scouts we're working with just don't get it right.

When Scout Spirit kind of abs, when we have a camp out or two, that kind of fizzles out and nobody seems to be very interested in, when things just aren't going right. It's like an old preacher said.

It's kind of you know something's wrong but you're not quite sure what it is. It's kind of like washing your feet with your socks on. I also get that kind of question a lot of times from folks who are poised to become Scoutmasters in the near future. They survey the troop they're about to take over and they see any number of problems. They think there's a lot of changes and difficulties, that there's a lot of changes they're going to need to make and difficulties for them to overcome. And I'll tell you from experience: this is a really crucial moment because we look at a situation.

It makes us unhappy. We don't find it, we don't think that we're getting anywhere with it and we have a very strong temptation just to take over and set things right, right To change everybody's mind and to make things work, And usually we're going to do that at the expense of having Scouts have the experience of beating themselves and making their own decisions about things.

So I want to encourage you to look at this carefully and look at it just a little differently than you may be looking at it. What I've learned over years of experience is that our job is never really about making Scouts or our fellow Scouters do anything. It's never about us being able to issue edicts and orders and have everybody follow it.

I think you probably understand that, because our fellow volunteers are volunteers. Our Scouts also volunteers And you know, if I'm volunteering for something, I'm not going to be real interested in hanging around if there's one person ordering me around and telling me exactly what to do.

I think our job is creating an environment of opportunity that offers Scouts the growth and discovery and friendship and adventure of Scouting. This is all great stuff, right, And as they do the do it all, as they go on the camping trips and work in their patrols and take on responsibilities and work towards advancements, they start to grow and mature into the kind of young people we aim to develop. They have no idea that this is happening And it's probably one of the farthest things from their mind when they join Scouts. They join Scouts to have fun with their pals. That's what they're in it for.

So exactly how do we get them to care? How do we get them to care about advancement?

How do we get them to care enough to show up at meetings and events and to take on the challenges of Scouting and make good? Well, here's a thought that came to me. Imagine we're out camping and the evening starts to grow kind of cold.

Well, we could decide that it's too cold out and kind of give up and head for our tents and our sleeping bags. Or we could build a fire.

Now we're going to set to gathering wood and assembling the tinder and the kindling and we're going to clear a spot for the fire. We're going to find our fire starters and our matches, We kindle the fire and we add the fuel and soon we're enjoying the warmth and the fellowship that it provides. But it's not always that simple right. I mean many, many, many years ago. I can remember very vividly setting up in a state park and it was cold and rainy and I really wanted to have a campfire. It had rained for a few days previous and things were really soggy and I tried and I tried.

I even think I threw some liquid stove fuel on the wood to try and get it going. It wasn't a smart thing to do then and it's not a smart thing to do now, But I did everything I could to get that dang fire going and it just would not light.

I felt like I spent an hour or so trying, and I've watched my scouts do this too. If you've been around for any length of time, you've watched it. Right, They try this or that. They get a pile of leaves, They get a pile of grass, They fret and they fuss. There's a lot of smoke and a lot of bother and arguing and they get frustrated. Maybe they end up with a fire, Maybe they don't.

You know, whoever said where there's smoke, there's fire was clearly never a Scoutmaster, right? I know one thing: If you go about building a fire systematically, if you gather the tender, the kindling, the fuel carefully, you're going to have a fire.

So I think the real question to ask is to sit back and look at your scout group and ask yourself the question: where are you in the process of building a fire? Are you still shivering in the cold? You still got people out gathering firewood.

Are you to the point where you're able to kindle the flame, or are you or do you have a campfire going and you're singing songs and enjoying the fellowship of the campfire? You know you may start out with no place to build the fire.

There's no fire ring, So you've got to start at square one and clear the ground and gather rocks and make a fire ring. Maybe somebody keeps coming along and dumping water on the flame every time you get it going and you may need to get them out of the way.

Maybe you're in one of those campsites that's pretty picked over and there's not much firewood to be had, which means you got to go farther afield for fuel. Maybe it rained all last week and the fuel is wet and your fire is sputtering and it's really, really difficult to get things going.

Maybe nobody thought to bring matches or fire starters, So maybe you've got to make a spark or put together a fire by friction kit to get things going. The point is, no matter what's happening, you have faith in a few simple laws of physics. You get the fuel, the air and a source of inspiration or ignition together and you will have a fire eventually. It may take a lot of work and it may take a long time, but you will overcome the conditions, you will create the proper conditions and you will actually have a campfire, No matter what's happening today or happened yesterday in your scout troop. Have faith in the program. The program works.

Get the program going and you're going to achieve the aims of scouting. It's just the same as the simple laws of physics that control the idea of a fire right.

When we know that, when we create the proper conditions, when we get the right fuel and kindling and tinder together, we have a source of inspiration or ignition, we're going to have a fire. We know, if we get the scouting program going, we're going to achieve the aims of scouting.

It's worked for more than a century now, in every corner of the world. It's worked. It's going to happen. It's as sure as the laws of physics. In my experience I've had very few campfires spring to life instantaneously with one match And, as I said, I've watched my scouts try one idea and clear the fire pit and try again. I've seen plenty of piles of wet leaves sputter out and inadequate attempts at gathering the fuel and 100 other missteps to getting things going.

But you only learn by trying right. The only way you learn to build this fire is by giving it a shot. I can't give you three steps to instant success, to make the scouting program go or tell you exactly what needs to happen next where you are. All I know is that there are a few immutable things that work, that have always worked and that will work without question, just like building a fire. Apply the program faithfully, Keep after it and you're going to see results. It takes longer than anyone imagines at first.

It takes faith and persistence. How many times have you seen a campfire grow slowly from a sputtering little flame that nearly disappeared? I know I've seen that happen many times. Think big. Don't get too concerned when one scout shows up for something. Concentrate on that scout.

Don't get too discouraged when things fall flat, Prop them up and start over again. Most of all, this requires being patient. It requires being patient with yourself, because you're going to make more mistakes than you can count. But if you persist in doing good work, it will work. The program has to work.

So but you tell me, listen, I've tried all this before. I've tried these things.

Well, you've got something wrong. It can't be the program. Right, You've got something wrong. And don't get too upset with that. Be patient with yourself. You're going to make a lot of mistakes, just like I said, Your tinder's wet, Your kindling's the wrong kind, You don't have the right kind of match going.

Whatever it is, You're just going to have to keep at it until you figure out what the right combination of things is. If you've been around for a while and you've instructed people on how to build fires and you've watched the process unfold before, you know that it's a fairly simple, straightforward process, But it can be tremendously frustrating if there's one little thing out of place. It can be tremendously frustrating, right, If something is wet, or you don't have the right kind of matches, or you don't have the right kind of fuel.

If it's like I said, if it's been raining or something like that, it can be a really difficult process, But you know that it will work And that's the kind of faith and confidence that I want you to have in the scouting program. It's much easier to get on a podcast and to state you know the very simple rules of fire building than it is to actually build one in the field, And I know that.

But we're going to be here to answer your questions and to see if we can help you get that fire going. But the best news of all is that it has to work and it will work. You just have to keep at it.

That is, folks. And here's an answer to one of your emails. Due to the sensitive nature of this email, I've been asked to keep the sender anonymous. But they wrote in and said I was asked to coordinate a small group of scouts to do an opening flag ceremony for an upcoming political party breakfast. It doesn't really matter which party it is. Suffice to say, I feel uncomfortable asking my scout families to participate in any partisan political event.

I have a coordinated groups that do a flag openings for the Rotary Club, But that wasn't a specific political party And I really didn't think about a set a second, about participating in that. Where exactly should scouting draw the line on requests like this? I definitely want scouts to be prepared to make moral and ethical choices. I want them to be good citizens and participate in all aspects of the rights and duties of citizenship, But I'm a little worried that getting involved with a partisan event might not be appropriate. This answer is pretty easy, because I didn't even have to come up with it. There's an applicable policy statement issued by the Boy Scouts of America And I'm going to read that statement to you, with the understanding that not everybody listening is involved with the BSA.

I think this policy would be very familiar to scouts anywhere. Let me read it to you. Uniformed unit members and leaders may participate in flag ceremonies at political events and may lead the Pledge of Allegiance. However, they should retire after the ceremony and not remain on the speaker's platform or in a conspicuous location where viewers could construe their presence as an endorsement or symbol of support for a particular political party. In addition, photos of candidates with scouts in uniform or any BSA marks or logos are not allowed in political campaign materials of any kind. Volunteers and professionals must be alert to situations that would imply the BSA favors one candidate over another.

Strict observance of our long-standing policy against active participation of uniformed scouts and leaders in political events is mandatory. So I think it's a pretty simple statement, right?

I would include that policy statement in a letter to the folks who are running this political breakfast and either be there yourself or have a detailed discussion with the scouter who will attend and lead the scouts through this- And yes, I think this is one situation where an adult should be telling scouts precisely what to do. I'd require the folks running the breakfast to allow time to rehearse the movements of the scouts and what will be said precisely. They should provide a representative or coordinator who will acknowledge the policy statement that I've just read and that you'll include in your communication to them and be the go-to person at the event.

As you said, this is a good thing for scouts to do, so long as everyone involved understands very carefully exactly what they're doing. They're there to acknowledge their citizenship and to celebrate it with the people that are gathered there, not to endorse any specific political ideology. As a side note, I'd suggest you instruct the scouts and adults not to literally physically touch a button or a poster or any piece of political paraphernalia while they're in uniform. It should go without saying that we don't ever wear political buttons or anything like that on the uniform, but let's say it anyway. This would assure that nobody will walk away with a picture of a scout holding a sign or wearing a button or appearing to do so. If a candidate or a speaker requests photos with scouts, I would respectfully decline citing that to your understanding, this is not permitted by national policy.

Of course, participating in this event gives you and other scouts a really great opportunity to discuss politics and citizenship and how our roles as scouts differ from our role as private citizens. Why aren't scouts involved in politics?

What's the difference between your role as a scouter and your role as a private citizen? Now, I'd say all this acknowledging that, yes, this kind of thing can be a little bit of a minefield, but it's a great opportunity for character development for our scouts.

So we want to be sure we have a solid understanding of the dividing lines and that all the adults involved are on the same page before you start discussing it with scouts. I think the key term in the policy statement I read is construe their presence as an endorsement or symbol of support, and that's the point to discuss with everybody involved. If you can't all agree on this, I would pass up on the opportunity and move on In an abundance of caution.

I want to make sure to restate that there is a specific policy. I've read it out here on the podcast. That's where it all begins and ends. I've added a little bit of advice of my own. But whenever it comes to matters of policy or procedure, you should always back up whatever you hear here, whatever you hear from somebody else, whatever you assume is right, by going to the resources that are provided by your scouting organization, not just making an assumption of what you think is right or listening to what people tell you is right. You read the resources yourself and if you still have questions, get in touch with your local scouting officials and ask them for their help.

Here's an email exchange I have with Tom. Tom first wrote and said: I have a young patrol that only wants to meet on Sundays and once a month at troop meetings. They're even asking to make their own calendar and I'm really not sure how to deal with this.

And then I asked Tom: who's driving the idea on this? Is it the scouts in the patrol or could it be possible that some adult or parent is involved in doing this, And what does the senior patrol leader and the rest of the patrol leaders council have to say about it? Tom wrote me back and said: I'm not sure. I just received an email message about this and all the scouts involved with the patrol are pretty young, They're below first class. And the email said we've decided and we're going to start having our meetings on a schedule that allows the scouts to be involved in football and soccer season. Not all the scouts in the patrol will be able to make regular troop meetings.

We'll be having a calendar planning meeting at such and such a scouts house at such and such an address. And we also came up with two goals to achieve over the next six months And therefore everyone in the patrol to rank up once and to do three eagle required merit badges. And Tom said I did give them a simple and positive reply. But I really can't get my mind wrapped around what's going on. And my reply to Tom was: it's not likely that a scout is driving this and wrote that email.

Now it could be, but I would say in my experience, after reading the email and considering its content, I don't think a 12 year old scout is likely to be the source of this. Could be, but this sounds more like a mom or a dad kind of leading the patrol, much like a den leader would lead a dent And it wouldn't be too hard to figure out exactly who that parent is, because it's probably the parent of the home that they're meeting it.

So I don't think this sounds like such a bad plan, but the parent involved needs to get some perspective on what happens in a scout patrol and troop. If the scout patrol is made up totally of younger scouts, they need the benefit of the instruction and leadership of the older scouts in the troop.

So exclusively having meetings outside of the troop meeting they're not going to get that. I would contact this parent and I would sign them on as adult leader and get them trained. And it's a good opportunity to recruit an assistant Scoutmaster.

And then you need to start working with them on how to make this happen in a way that benefits not only this patrol but the entire troop. Tom wrote back and he said I spoke to my senior patrol leader