Scoutmaster Podcast 187

And now the old Scoutmaster, A scout working on his Eagle project, goes to the lumber yard and he goes to the counter and he says I need 10, two by fours. And the clerk looked at him and said: well, how long do you want them?

And the scout said: yeah, I want to keep them. Oh my Hey, this is podcast number 187..

Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look in the mailbag. Dave Cavilla got in touch with us.

He's in troop 86 in Tenefly, New Jersey, and he wrote to say: this great podcast a matter of my second year as a Scoutmaster and have so much more to learn. We're in the process of revamping my old troop and taking it from eight scouts to almost 30 in three years. We're already at 15 and holding it together. Your podcast should be mandatory for new leaders as it fills in the gaps left by training and scout books.

Is there any way I can easily download the old podcast? I spent a lot of time on the road and I'd like to listen. If there was some type of batch download or a page that lists them all together than, rather than, scrolling through the whole website, it might be helpful.

Well, Dave, I'll get on that and I'll do what I can do to make it easier. I appreciate your kind words and I'm glad to hear that things are going well for you in your work as a Scoutmaster, and you know. Thanks for being in touch.

Howie Jones is in West Springfield, Massachusetts, with troop 570 and he wrote: Well, Clark, some of us just don't learn. Having been a Scoutmaster eight years ago, I should know better, but I went and jumped into the volcano again and I'm blaming you for it. Showing me the right direction has challenged me to get it right this time. Taking up on your short catchphrases, I'm giving myself this one mantra: Tell the boys yes and the parents no.

He says Thanks, I think. Well, Howie, I'm sure you're going to have a great time being a Scoutmaster. I don't always have to tell the parents no, but I'm not too sure that's not such a bad rule of thumb sometimes.

So, as always, there's a lot of things going on at scoutmastercgcom. Come and visit us, Won't you? I posted a review this week of a new book by David Levesque, called For the Love of Cub Scouts, and I heartily recommend it to you. If you're involved in Cub Scouts. You need to get trained and make sure that you're all set to go, but some of the more valuable resources you can get in making Cub Scouts work for you is getting good advice and direction from experienced leaders. Dave is an experienced guy.

He took the time to put his experience into this book and I think you'll find it an important resource for you if you're a Cub Scout leader. So once again, scoutmastercgcom, Look for the review on For the Love of Cub Scouts by David Levesque and you'll find out how to get your copy. Also, a little bit later on this week I will post a video review of some Tomahawks that I got from hatchetsandaxescom. They sent me a couple of their Tomahawks to test out. I took them out this weekend with the scouts. We set up a Tomahawk throwing event and we had a blast doing it.

You may want to think about it as something to add in, as one of the things you do with your troop. It really is a lot of fun and it sounds a little hairy, but it's easy to do safely. It's also a permitted activity.

So far as the Guide to Safe Scouting is concerned, There'll be a lot of information about how to do it properly in the review that you'll see later on this week. So in this edition of the Scoutmaster podcast, in Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, we're going to be talking about numbers and statistics and breakthrough scouting.

Again, I have several email questions that have accumulated over the past week or so that I think would be useful for you to hear the answers to. And that's going to do it for this podcast.

So let's get started, shall we?

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less. One responsibility of nearly every volunteer scatter is going to be keeping track of some kind of numbers. We track advancement and participation in membership and fundraising numbers at the council and regional and national levels, because all these numbers are indicators of successful program delivery. But numbers are just indicators, right. When we observe numbers they can tell us things. It's when we chase numbers that we tend to get into trouble.

Good people with the best of intentions can make big mistakes if they start chasing numbers. What do I mean by chasing numbers?

Well, when Davis, who is the author of the book Men of Shiff, posted a history of a misguided number chasing BSA initiative called Boy Power 76. It had some really good goals, It had the best of intentions, but it had come kind of disastrous results. The story Wind Shares is a great illustration of chasing numbers and mistaking good numbers for a true breakthrough.

Now, from time to time I hear scoutmasters who almost apologize for having a small troop of just a dozen or so scouts. I also hear from folks who are quick to point out that they have a hundred or more scouts in their troop. Big isn't bad, but big isn't better. Your numbers don't automatically translate into better experiences or more breakthroughs for our scouts.

I also hear touching individual stories, Things like I never imagined that our scouts would lead so well. I never imagined my son would grow and mature in a way that I never thought possible. I never imagined that this troubled scout would turn a corner for the better. I was touched by the way our scouts responded to a given situation. These are the kind of stories that we all know and that happen all the time, and I call that a breakthrough. That's breakthrough scouting.

Breakthrough scouting happens one individual at a time. It doesn't happen in big statistics.

A breakthrough might make numbers look better, but we can't really quantify breakthrough by looking at the size of the number, because it's an individual thing. We make a difference in our communities when we shift our focus from tracking indicators to creating breakthroughs. When an individual scout reaps the benefits of scouting, we've succeeded. Our focus is on the happiness, growth and experience of the individual scout. Individual scouts achieve breakthroughs as members of patrols and troops, and packs and dens and crews, but we are always keeping our eye on the individual. When they progress, the larger group progresses.

When they learn, they increase the group's knowledge. We should be fostering the conditions that create breakthroughs, and then the numbers are going to follow. Every decision, every initiative, everything we put our energy into should ultimately advance the main aim of scouting. For that, individual scout Numbers are great. They're useful indicators. We ought to continue to keep an eye on them If we aim our efforts at creating breakthroughs.

The numbers take care of themselves. Take me back to dream again. By campfire on the trail, By campfire on the trail when day is done, By campfire on the trail when day is done. Write me a letter, send it by name Email. That is folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails: Brian Monday is in Springfield, Missouri, with PAC 5, and he asks, as a second-year Weebelos den leader and parent, how soon should I be taking scout leader specific training? Not that I necessarily expect to be Scoutmaster, but I've found understanding each position is a vital skill for all scouters. My son is scheduled to cross over to Boy Scouts from Weebelos in December And by that time I'd like to have the necessary training to help volunteer for the troop and understand what goes on.

Well, Brian, that is a laudable goal and kudos for doing this ahead of time. Rather than waiting until you change volunteer roles, Nothing prevents you from taking all the scout leader specific training online and in training events as soon as you like.

I think it's a great idea to seek things out and to work to understand why we do what we do, And that all begins with our formal training. Once again, good on you for doing this ahead of time. Don't wait until you change volunteer roles.

You can take training right now and there's nothing that would stop you from doing that. I received this email and, because of the nature of the email, we're not going to share any personal information about it. It says a well-meaning individual pointed out that my unit has not necessarily been doing things correctly.

So far as advancement is concerned, I am registered as both an assistant scoutmaster and our advancement chairman. I have been learning as I go and I really don't do a lot of reading of the fine print about advancement. We typically have assistant scoutmasters perform boards of review. We do have some committee members, but for the most part they don't come to regular meetings and do not sit on boards of review.

So my first question is: can I be registered both as an assistant scoutmaster and the unit advancement chairman? I've looked at all the online resources I can find and I don't see whether this is allowed or not.

Our troop has been doing things this way for many, many years, but if possible, we'd like to change things to be as legal as we can be. Well, I'll say the Guide to Advancement spells a lot of this out pretty clearly. The point of a board of review is to assure the requirements have been met without retesting the scout. But that's only part of the point In the Guide to Advancement. In section 8.0.1.3, it says periodic reviews of members' progress can provide a measure of unit effectiveness. A unit might uncover ways to increase the educational value of its outings or how to strengthen the administration of national advancement procedures, For example, if its discovered troop leaders are not assuring that all the requirements have been met before scouts present themselves at a board of review, then process improvements can be recommended.

A board can also help by considering the style of leadership best suited to the current circumstances and ways to adjust it to different needs. So that's what the Guide to Advancement says. To be able to do this, the volunteers who are most of the time working directly with the scouts- that would be the Scoutmaster and the assistant Scoutmasters- we really can't have them on a board of review.

It's like asking them to review themselves right, And that's not something any of us do particularly well, is it? That's why there's a real hard and fast rule about this. It says in the Guide to Advancement, section 8.0.0.3, unit leaders and assistants shall not serve on a board of review for a scout in their own unit. Parents or guardians shall not serve on a board of review for their son, The candidate, or his parents or guardians shall have no part in selecting any board of review members. All of this right is aimed at the best interests of the scout, providing him an objective review and, more importantly, providing the unit leaders an impartial review, Because we're not just reviewing the scout, we're reviewing his experience in the troop, we're reviewing the leadership styles that are being used. We're reviewing the way that our adult volunteers are administering the scouting program.

That's why there's this rule. It's not because we don't like assistant Scoutmasters or Scoutmasters, it's just that they don't have the objectivity that we'd want to have for them to judge the work that they're doing okay. That's why there's the rule. As far as who sits on a board of review, you aren't strictly limited to committee members.

Let's go back to the Guide to Advancement, section 8.0.2.0.. It says this: the board is made up of three to six unit committee members, no more and no less. In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it's permissible to use knowledgeable parents, not those of the candidate- or other adults, registered or not, who are at least 21 years of age and who understand Boy Scouting's aims. Using unregistered adults for boards of review must be the exception, not the rule. Registered committee members familiar with the unit program, who have had a background check and who are youth protection trained, are always preferred. You can see that we're not limited just to committee members.

We can deputize folks to help out when committee members aren't available. And as a pretty simple test: are they at least 21 years of age?

Are they not the boy's parent, and do they understand the aims of Scouting? Now, as for being an assistant scoutmaster and the advancement chair at the same time- just not possible. You choose one or the other. You won't find a policy statement about this because it's not necessary. One person, one leadership role, That's it. Otherwise you're going to have a troop where one or two people are trying to carry the load, and that's just not the way Scouting works.

I know a lot of people wear multiple hats in Scouting and they have lots of different responsibilities, and I'm not saying that that's absolutely wrong. Sometimes that's just the way that things happen. But the goal should always be to get it down to one hat right, Because that's how we're going to best serve our scouts and our communities. In the best of all possible worlds, nobody should have multiple leadership positions in Scouting. In this particular case, the reasoning is the work of an assistant scoutmaster is quite different than that of an advancement chair. An advancement chair needs to be a member of the committee and attend committee meetings and focus on advancement And assistant scoutmasters.

They are not members of the troop committee, nor do they necessarily attend troop committee meetings. The assistant scoutmaster is there to help and support scoutmaster's delivery of the program to work with scouts as the scoutmaster decides.

Now, truth be told, you folks probably have a very workable arrangement and you're getting things done and that's the way you've been doing it for many years. Now you've discovered that you aren't really complying with BSA policy on a few matters.

Well, what's important to get here is that these policies are spelled out this way, because experience has shown us they're the best methods to apply to achieve the aim of Scouting. They're not just some policy we have to obey to be legal, quote unquote.

Any responsible person would want to make sure that they're getting things right so that they are best serving their scouts. So you have some changes to make. Somebody has to have the advancement chair's job and focus only on that. Perhaps it's you, or perhaps it's somebody else.

Now there's nothing to say that an advancement chairman can't go camping or be involved with the scouts in the same way that you are now. It's just going to be a change of focus. Next, you should read the guide to advancements direction on boards of review thoroughly.

Are you doing them correctly and discussing what's described there, or are you just simply retesting a scout's requirements? You also need to apply your understanding to who makes up the board. Assistant scoutmasters are great people, but there's good reason for not having them on boards of review. There's going to probably be some resistance within your unit to making these changes.

Nobody likes change and if everything's working, why would we want to change it? But after you've studied and understood that there is actually a better way to best serve your scouts, after you catch that spirit, you'll be able to share the why behind the how of the policy. Right, It's not about being legal, It's about delivering the best program for your scouts.

Now this next email came to me from a scoutmaster and I'm going to withhold the personal information about it, but he wrote to say this: I'm a scoutmaster with a situation on my hands. There was an incident between our senior patrol leader and two of his buddies. On the morning our troop was packing up to leave our week at summer camp. I'm sure they were tired, but apparently the senior patrol leader was losing his temper and yelling at his buddies like a drill sergeant. The adults who were there- I was not, I had to leave camp early- say that they didn't see enough of the incident or feel there was really all that much to be concerned about other than some buddies giving each other a hard time.

Now, a month later, one of the mothers is complaining that nothing is being done to discipline the senior patrol leader and without good witnesses as to what happened- no other scout saw the incident well enough either- It's hard to know what, if anything, the troop should do. Our district executive is recommending an informal meeting with just those scouts.

Any tips from your perspective? The moms that are complaining are on the committee, and that kind of makes the situation all that more awkward.

Well, I guess if I was a Scoutmaster in this situation I would sit down with the scouts involved and I would see what there was to see. It probably, as you said, is not a big giant deal. I'd aim at shaking hands and apologies all around If I found that someone had acted up in a way that required any kind of discipline. I'm not going to be disciplining them. No, I would talk to that scout's parents. I would explain the situation and tell them that they need to deal with their son and assure me that that sort of behavior is not going to be repeated.

But that's only in the case of of really extreme behavior. That's basically what I would recommend to handle the situation Now. If someone's mother complained that I did not handle the situation correctly, I would explain exactly what I did and why I did it.

If they didn't like the way I resolved the problem, well, I would offer them the position of Scoutmaster. If they didn't want to take over and be the Scoutmaster and they went around causing discord and upset, I'd ask the troop committee chair to speak with that parent and tell them that they could either stop or find another troop for themselves and their son.

Is that an awkward kind of thing to do? Does it seem a little strong?

Well, the first few times, yes, it's pretty awkward, but I got to tell you after 30 years of working with scouts: 99% of the conflicts between boys are transitory and easy to resolve. But when their parents get involved in it, they can cause more problems than the boys ever would. If parents start huffing and puffing about things, they start complaining to the Scoutmaster or they start threatening the Scoutmaster. That's got to be put to a swift and decisive resolution Now. Remember it's never the place of a Scoutmaster to discipline or punish a scout.

If a scout misbehaves in a way that you know a little bit of counseling and mentoring is not going to take care of. I refer them to their parents for discipline and punishment. Scoutmasters counsel and encourage. Every tool in our toolbox is positive. We do not punish or discipline scouts, nor does the committee or any other scouting volunteer- not ever. That's the place of parents.

We put them in the hands of their parents, we explain the situation, we say this type of behavior is unacceptable. You need to talk to your son and then when he returns to the troop here you need to guarantee us that this kind of behavior will not be repeated. And I also received another email from another Scoutmaster in trouble.

It's a sensitive situation so I'm withholding all the names and the information about that, but the email came to me said this: I'll try to explain things clearly, but I'm upset enough that my email may seem a little disjointed. Last fall we had two scouts transfer into our troop from another troop. In the ensuing year I've had to speak to them both about fighting, even physically, with each other and other behavioral issues. On a week-long trip our troop took this summer, the mother of these two boys volunteered to drive. To our surprise, in the middle of this trip she told us she had to pick up her other children on the way home and could not provide transportation home for all the scouts that she had made a commitment to.

So we made arrangements for the scouts to ride in other cars. One thing led to another, and this mom asked for more of the money we had allotted to transportation expense. We said no because she was no longer transporting our scouts and she blew up in a very loud manner, making both the adults and the scouts very uncomfortable. After the poor behavior on the part of her boys and her own poor behavior, the troop committee chair and I have come to the conclusion that this family may be happier finding another troop. We've also discussed the idea that the boys may be able to stay in the troop, but mom would not be allowed to volunteer with us any longer. I'm feeling kind of like we're in a no-win situation here and I could really use some guidance.

My guidance is going to be based on the information you sent me, so if I've gotten something wrong, you need to let me know. After evaluating this situation, you've concluded it's time for this family to move on, because they're causing trouble, they're acting inappropriately and in all likelihood this could be a pattern of behavior. I'm going to tell you based on my experience. If you think you can save them or have the boys continue on without mom being involved, you're likely probably wrong. If you need confirmation on my read of this situation, talk to the Scoutmaster of the last troop they were in and see if you can get an idea of the circumstances that surrounded them leaving that troop and coming to yours. Like I said, this could be a pattern of behavior for this particular family If you're going to send them on their way, if that's what you decide to do.

Here's how it's done. The final decisions about who is a suitable adult volunteer are up to your committee chair and the chartered organization representative. They can remove any volunteer at any time, for cause or for no cause at all. They can also remove any scout from membership, for cause or for no cause at all.

They have complete, absolute authority to do so and they will be backed up by your district and your council. There's really no recourse Now. Naturally, it would be a shame if the committee chair and the chartered organization representative were wielding this authority willy-nilly and making poor judgments and decisions about this. But in the way that scouting is set up, the unit has absolute authority to decide who will be a part of that unit, either as a volunteer or a scout. What I would do if I was in this situation is I would sit down with the committee chair and we would compose a brief letter. We would not put this in an email.

It would be on a piece of paper, a letter. We're not discussing this via email. We're not going back and forth with the committee via email with this, because email can cause you lots and lots of difficulties. We're putting this in a brief letter stating that mom's services as a volunteer are no longer required and that her sons will not be continuing as members of the troop. That's all that's needed. This should be hand delivered to the family in question, away from any kind of meeting or event, and I would say it might not be such a bad idea to give them a full refund of any membership fees.

And they hold things over. You don't have to build a case or collect evidence or give reasons. It's very simple. It's the opinion of the committee and the chartering organization that your actions and the appointment of your sons have disqualified you from any continued association with our troop. Please find a check enclosed in the full amount of membership fees paid sincerely, etc. Etc.

I would copy your district executive and the scout executive by mail. Now: don't argue, don't equivocate. Deliver the letter and be done. These are all hairy situations and they require decisive action. Get them resolved fast and end all of the upset Like once again.

It sounds pretty rough, doesn't it? It's unpleasant and distracting from the mission that you have as a volunteer scouter and that's really why it needs to be brought to a swift resolution. Out of the goodness of our hearts. A lot of times we're tempted to extend a lot of chances and to take on a lot of bad behavior on the part of scouts and, a lot of times, adult leaders, because we really don't want to face the confrontation that's coming. But that confrontation is coming. The worst thing that you can do is let this go on and on and on until it's really damaging to all of the scouts in the troop and becomes the only thing that you're paying attention to.

As with everything I've ever said on the podcast or written on the blog, don't take my word for these things. Make sure that you're checking all of the written resources that you have from the Boy Scouts of America. Talk to your district executive, make sure that you understand the policies and procedures surrounding membership and, in the rare case where you need to separate somebody from your unit, and just make sure you cover all your bases. The spirit of my advice to both this email and the previous one is: don't be afraid to take action that's decisive and bring difficult situations to a resolution. We're all volunteering our time to focus on the best interest of each individual scout, and if there's a scout or a family that is causing a lot of unrest and a lot of difficulty, sometimes the only resolution is to separate them from your unit. They may find a welcome in another unit and they may find that things go a lot better for them there.

So check all the resources, talk to your local folks and make sure that you're doing the right thing, but don't be afraid to take action when action is warranted.