Scoutmaster Podcast 176

And now the old Scoutmaster. Here's a thought. Of all the animals domesticated and wild, The scout is the least trainable. That's from Thoughts on Scouting and you're going to hear more about that later on in the podcast,

But this is podcast number 176.. Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag.

Ash wrote in this past week and he said, as someone who was involved with the BSA as a boy many years ago, I've followed your site for nearly a year and I've used a lot of the insight you share to teach my son what I think the BSA got right. For a number of reasons, we've chosen not to be part of the BSA. I'm still able to use scouting fundamentals with my son with an alternative group that I work with. The knowledge you share is still relevant, even though we aren't involved in the BSA.

Well, that's good to hear, Ash. Thanks, I'm glad that you're finding this useful. David Livingston is an adult volunteer with a scout troop and he said: hi, Clark, You've been busy. I really like what you've done with the website, podcast videos and the blog.

I think you've tapped into something here and I certainly wish you tons of success. Thanks, David. Thanks for your vote of confidence. They're always appreciated. Ed Bruce is with Troop 38 in North Falmouth, Massachusetts. He said a year ago I took over a Scoutmaster for our troop.

Prior to that I was an assistant Scoutmaster for three years and the troop was primarily adult-led. When I became Scoutmaster we switched to the patrol method. I told the boys it was their meetings, their trips, their courts of honor, their everything. I told parents that their boys are amazing and not to underestimate their abilities. We had our first patrol camping trip last September. I worried it wouldn't work, but I trusted those more experienced than me and thank you, Clark.

I had pretty low expectations but it was a resounding success. It wasn't perfect, but it's never going to be. I still have adults that question the methods. The troop meetings are a bit chaotic and disorganized.

The patrol leaders are frequently not prepared or as prepared as we think they should be, and they rush through their patrol portion of the meetings so they can go outside and run around and play games. See how smart these scouts are.

Sometimes it seems they're just sitting around and not doing much, but for most of our meetings we have close to 100% attendance. Many boys choose to skip other activities, including sports, to come to meetings and to go camping. They cover enough in the meetings to prepare for the camping trips and they learn by doing things that scouts do. I've seen incredible growth in all the boys in the last year. My senior patrol leader has grown into a caring and responsible servant leader.

So don't sell your scouts short. Embrace the patrol method. It's a lot of work at first, but the rewards are great. And don't listen to the naysayers. I'm sorry to ramble on, but I wanted to make sure that Clark knows how much of an impact he's had on our program. Just think of the others that are out there that haven't said anything.

Thanks again, And Ed, thank you so much. I certainly appreciate that and I'm really pleased that you're finding things useful and applicable and that they're working.

That's the most important thing, isn't it? As I mentioned just a moment ago, thoughts on scouting- Thoughts on scouting- is my first book.

How about that? Yes, a real book with pages and a cover and all that kind of stuff. And I mean, for the past 30 years I have really enjoyed being a volunteer scouter and I've been maintaining the blog and the podcast for about the past eight years and I have a fondness for sayings and maxims and adages and mottos and epigrams and proverbs and aphorisms.

I think there's a lot of poetry and beauty and challenge in expressing a really complex thought in a few well-chosen words. So all of the thoughts in this book- the title is Thoughts on Scouting and you can go to scoutmastercgcom find out how to get your copy- All of the thoughts in that book- there's 150 of them- were first published as 140 character-long tweets- Tweets And it's been great fun to watch them take on a life of their own. I've put the book together to get you thinking about your work in scouting And maybe even I've put the book together to help you.

I've put to the book together so that you have something that helps you think about what you're up to in scouting and maybe provides a little bit of inspiration. I've based a lot of my Scoutmaster Minutes on those thoughts And I've even used some of them to liven up a training session or two. I tried to keep things cheerful because I don't like to take myself too terribly seriously, and I've thrown in a funny one or two. Not every idea in the book is new, not by a long shot, and I doubt many are original.

I can tell you I haven't consciously used anyone else's material, but you know what they say: good writers borrow and great writers steal. Since people do ask, if you get the book and you wanna use any of the sayings in it or thoughts in it in a newsletter or on your website, go ahead. Go ahead.

It's all freely offered to advance the work of scouting, and that's what it's all about, isn't it? So, once again, the title of the book Thoughts on Scout, and go to scoutmastercgcom. Find out how to get your copy, and I really appreciate all of you who have already ordered a copy since we announced the publishing of it last week. Sure, do appreciate that In this podcast we're going to talk about the. This is a little dramatic, folks.

We're gonna talk about the Troop Program Death Spiral, And we've got an email question to answer, So that's gonna take up the rest of the podcast. So let's get started. Shall we Scouts master ship in seven minutes or less.

So what is the Dreaded Troop Program Death Spiral? I mean, that's kind of a dramatic way of putting it, but I got your attention though, didn't I? Why do some troops get off track and begin to lose scouts and the program just kind of folds in on itself.

I think there's a predictable sequence of events that kind of lead to that spiral down to the crash. I'll begin by saying I don't think scouts are ever the problem.

I think it's the way we work with them that causes most of the problems. So let's go back to when we signed on as a volunteer and we start working with a scout troop. I know many of you started working with a Cub Scout pack.

But let's go back to when you start working with a scout troop. So you go to training and you work at understanding your role and you evaluate the current practices of the troop against what you learn and you work at it, you try.

Now that's one way to approach your role as a scouting volunteer. Another way is not getting trained and not really learning about your role and just kind of adopting whatever practices that were present when you signed on.

And then a third way is to assume that we already know everything and we carry on regardless. Or we're working with people who assert that they know everything and we follow them. Either way we resist examining or improving on what we're doing.

So, once again, you can get trained and try and really work at this and try and understand things. Or you can not get trained and not bother to learn anything and just kind of follow along with whatever's happening in the troop that you're serving in, or you can just assume that you know everything and carry on and work with people who assume they know everything. What I would like us all to do is to examine what we're up to and improve on what we're doing.

Now, nearly every scouting volunteer is going to hear something about the mysterious patrol method or the virtues of a boy led troop and they may commit themselves to understanding and applying the patrol method. Now this is a really crucial juncture here, because Baden Powell said that the patrol method or the patrol system- those terms are pretty much interchangeable- was the one essential element of scouting. And it's not easy to understand because really you really don't see the patrol method applied in youth groups outside of scouting.

So it takes some time to understand. So you hear about it, you commit yourselves to applying the patrol method and then they apply the concepts in the practice of the patrol method and the first results are almost always disappointing. From the adult perspective they're pretty disappointing. The scouts they're pretty happy with things. But from the adult perspective, when you look at the way this works, when you have put everything in the hands of the scouts and you're working on getting them to be responsible for doing their own thing, they're gonna look kind of incapable or competent or lazy. They're gonna look too young- and we've got to accept the fact that they are young and their efforts are gonna be kind of disjointed and chaotic and they're gonna fall far short of creating that orderliness and efficiency that adults imagined we would create, right.

So we know that youth leadership is not going to be a smooth, orderly, efficient affair most of the time and we look at that and we don't see the chaotic kind of uncertainties as a positive indication of growing and developing leaders. Now we look at it and we're kind of disappointed and it's a little scary, you know, And it just it seems purposeless.

Sometimes We look at that and we say, well, this whole patrol method thing, this whole boy led thing, I think it's a great idea, but really, you know, we've got to do a lot more supervising here. Once we're not too sure about this whole patrol method thing and we start to interfere a little bit, we start to run things, we try and make things more efficient and orderly, As we do.

That you know, the more we do, the better. The more efficient things are and the more orderly they are and there's less trouble and uncertainty and chaos, The Scouts are gonna be happy to have those things taken care of for them. They won't complain, They'll have fun and they won't have to do a whole lot. Boys like that kind of thing for a little while, but eventually they're gonna get bored.

And then the next step in the spiral is the adults have to start coming up with more new and even more entertaining experiences, because Scouts are gonna leave if they don't, and so they work at this. And then the adults tend to get a little upset when the Scouts don't properly appreciate all that's being done for them and this turns to frustration and that frustration can harden into resentment and that kind of resentment can lead to all kinds of negative things. You can have a bad attitude about Scouts. You can start making a lot of rules because you're gonna coerce them into properly appreciating all the wonderful things that you're doing for them.

You know what I'm saying? It's that step, That's just one of the twists of the spiral, and that kind of attitude drives a lot of Scouts away.

And then, when Scouts start to leave, adults become even more upset and resentful. And adults are already fatigued from trying to hold things together and doing everything. Their energy starts to wane and things kind of spiral down.

So how do we avoid this? Well, we need to get trained. But getting trained is not enough.

We can't just passively receive these ideas. We have to test them, We have to pick them apart, We have to learn about them. And I'll tell you the truth- and a lot of people agree- that our present training doesn't do a very good job of getting the patrol method across.

So you've gotta go a little bit over and above and you've gotta read about it, You gotta think about it, You gotta test it. Then you have to apply the concepts and observe the results and assess the understanding and then try again. And you need to do this with a group of adults who are committed to making that kind of thing happen.

And then you need to stick with the process and work to understand it and you'll avoid that downward spiral. You come into your role as a volunteer, you get started, you try out this youth led patrol method kind of stuff.

It looks chaotic and messy and you begin to slowly take over and then the scouts they're happy for a while. Then they get bored with what you're doing.

So you try and amp it up and you try and do more interesting things and that takes a lot of energy. And then you get a little resentful when they don't properly appreciate all the energy that you're putting into it.

Maybe you start making rules and then the scouts they don't really care for all that and they're going to start to leave. And once the first couple do, you grow resentful about that and the scouts pick up that attitude and pretty soon you've got nothing to work with.

So getting off on the right foot is going to be important. Learning what your role is as a scout leader is going to be important, and really dedicating the time to it and working with it and understanding that it takes time and patience. It takes a high tolerance for adversity and uncertainty. But stick to it, strive to understand it and you're going to stay out of the spiral. Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts. Find me a letter, send it my name.

Email that is folks. Email that is folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. So this email question came in, I'm going to withhold the name and the location.

Here's what the writer said. So our troops been using a patrol method for about a year Now. I really like the concept, but my problem is I don't agree with the hands-off policy, meaning do not interfere with the patrols. I've been rebuffed by our Scoutmaster for stopping games that were getting too rough in my opinion, where I've pointed out things I thought can be approved on, only to have the Scoutmaster tell me that I'm in the wrong Now. I've been a den leader in Cub Scouts and a Cub master. I just started a new Cub pack and I'm also an assistant Scoutmaster.

I've done a lot of training, including the Scoutmaster training. Hands-off leadership might work well with a group of older boys, but I believe our younger scouts need supervision. Our oldest scout is about 15 and the other boys are between 11 and 12.. Some of the decisions being made by these younger scouts need to be gone over by the adult leaders. Our troop meetings are very poorly planned.

I think they could spend their time much better. I feel that I'm not really needed and I don't know why I'm putting on a uniform and showing up to these meetings if I'm just going to sit there and watch. It's a waste of my time.

Am I wrong to feel that these scouts need more supervision? I know my son is only 12 and he has sometimes has trouble making the right decision.

Shouldn't we be much more involved with what's going on? Well, I say that what you describe is really sounds to me like somebody is applying the patrol method, the way that it should be applied, and it doesn't look right, does it?

It won't, You know it won't, Leave the scouts alone and follow the Scoutmaster's lead for now. It's pretty typical that people, especially people who've been involved with Cubs, are going to get into a scout troop using the patrol method and using youth leadership and they're going to have a lot of reservations about what's going on and they may not understand what's going on.

What looks like 45 minutes of playtime may be something else, and if it was only 45 minutes of playtime, well, you have to sit back and you have to say: what are our scouts doing? How are they developing themselves individually and their patrol as a group? The age of the scouts matters a little bit, but not as much as everybody may think. Younger scouts can manage much more than we are comfortable with letting them manage.

You know, a lot of times- especially if you're a parent- the younger scout trying to manage buying food and cooking food and things like that boy. It just seems really, really sketchy and it's a tough thing to do.

But you know what they do, fine. They do fine. They plan a meeting and hold a meeting and things like that. Of course you're going to look at that.

If a boy who's 12 years old plans a meeting, He's not going to plan it to an adult standard, He's going to plan it to a 12 year old boy standard, which means he is going to plan it to have the most fun and to efficiently get through whatever business he needs to get through so that they can go out and run around and play. Of course he's going to do that.

Now you work with them. So you work with them, of course, but if they're getting done what they need to get done and they're happy with it, let's move on. I understand you feel like you're wasting your time, but you and I wear a uniform to do one thing and one thing only, and that's to make it possible for scouts to do the real work of scouting In a scout troop. That means doing things with some adult oversight but independent of adult interference. If you don't agree with the Scoutmaster's assessment of the scout's abilities and the way that he's administering things, you can choose to accept that you may be wrong and see if you may be able to learn something from this experience, or you can honestly find another troop that more closely reflects the way you want to do things. I'm not trying to be dismissive of your concerns.

There are plenty of troops out there that are run on a very efficient basis by the adults and then there are other troops that are run on the patrol method by the boys. You're going to see a huge difference between the two. If one more closely reflects what you think scouting should be, go to that one. It's really pretty simple: Training. Just as I said in Scoutmaster's ship in 7 minutes or less just a moment ago. Training is very important and it's an important source of knowledge, but being trained does not mean that you possess experience or skill.

Volunteering as a cub leader is a wonderful service, but you have to understand that cub scouts do things appropriate to their age level and scouts do things appropriate to their age level. Experience as a leader at one level does not mean that you know or understand anything about what happens at the next level. What you might need to do is kind of shift out a cub scout gear and work at understanding how a scout troop really works. You've got to have a lot of patience and tolerance for the kind of chaos that this looks like.

You have a tight schedule and you don't feel as if you're needed- and this may very well be true, honestly, because scout troops need fewer adults involved. Perhaps you should concentrate on the cub pack and share scouting with your son, go camping every now and then show up at a meeting when you can. In fact, you might found out that it's a lot less frustrating and a better time for the both of you.

So, honestly, I'm not trying to be dismissive of anyone's concerns about this. I'm just trying to explain what happens not to uncommon in troops that use the patrol method, that parents are going to be concerned and new volunteers are going to be concerned over the way things happen. My best advice is to hang on, study and be open to learning what's happening. Sometimes adult volunteers are going to be oil and water for each other and if you don't really understand or appreciate or agree with what's going on. You may really want to think about helping another troop.

So, anyways, I hope that helps. If you have a question for me, you can get in touch and you'll find out how to do that in just music.