Scoutmaster Podcast 155

And now the old Scoutmaster. One more important revelations in life is finding out that you got two ears and one mouth, And there's probably a good reason for that. Hey, this is podcast number 155..

Well, welcome back to this edition of the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look in the mailbag and see what's going on. This week We heard from TC and he's in Medina Ohio with PAC 3501.. He says: thanks for all you do, Clark. I'm enjoying my son's scouting journey as much as my own.

I think that happens quite a bit. My son's a Cub Scout. He's in a Baradun. If possible, I'd like to give a shout out to our Cub master. He'll be stepping down in February of this year after years of service to spend more time with his boys in scouting as a dad.

Here's a shout out to Andrew West, who is the Cub master of PAC 3501 in Medina Ohio. Andrew, thank you.

Obviously your time as Cub master well spent and it's meant a great deal to those boys and their families. And you know, Andrew, just between you and me, I've spent my time as a Cub master too. It can be quite a challenge and it's a big job in scouting And I certainly appreciate anybody who puts the time in to make that important work happen And I also wish you continued success as you follow your son's through scouting.

David wrote in to say I enjoy your podcast Great Well, thanks for listening, David. I certainly do appreciate hearing from you. John Nelson said I wanted to say I've been following the blog for the past few months and catching up on yours. Worth your materials. Your recent post on autism and scouting is an excellent topic and I appreciate your analysis. Go take a look at that over at scoutmastercgcom- autism and scouting- And it talks a little bit about a group that is working very hard to raise awareness in the scouting community of working with boys who are identified as autistic.

There's some wonderful resources available from them and I think they're doing a wonderful job. Thank you, And there's another shout out to the folks at autism and scouting: Hey, let's take a minute to check in with our friends at Conahoe Creek. I've got Bill Fleming on the phone here. You're doing great, Clark.

How are you doing So? Last week we started talking about this scout gear bundle over at conahoecreekcom.

You put this gear bundle together based on your longtime experience in scouting and testing gear and things like that for scouts to have good quality, durable gear without spending a minute of money, And I think it's a great idea. And one of the things you've chosen for this bundle is the Eureka ST sleeping pad.

Now I have one similar to this and I love it. It's extraordinarily comfortable. They're very, very durable. They're good value for money. And tell me a little bit about it. You'll see real often guys backpacking and they'll have their pads strapped down on the outside and it's constantly falling off on the trail.

Yeah, that's, You know, slowing down the whole group, But these things collapse down to a small size, to 3 by 10 inches That could literally fit inside your backpack. And this one is very durable. And not only that: the size and the thickness is much more than some of the other types of pads and gives you a lot more comfort in that regard too, And that's just one of the selections that's made in this gear bundle.

It's just like having a personal shopper with a lot of experience: help you pick out gear that's going to last a long time and that is going to serve you very well, and you're going to be able to get it at a good price. Bill, you'll customize this any way people want right For their particular climate, and just because it's in the scout bundle doesn't mean it has to stay in there. You'll switch things out and do whatever they need to get them the gear that they really want right. Oh, absolutely, In fact.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact us, and you know that's what we're all about at Conahoe Creek. Well, thanks, Bill. Everybody get yourselves over to conahoecreakcom- C-O-N-O-H-O-Creekcom, And when you get ready to check out, use the special coupon code for listeners to the Scoutmaster podcast, C-G-1-1-3.. In this podcast, in Scoutmastership, in seven minutes or less, we're going to handle both ends of the spectrum. That's right.

I want to tell you a little bit about Weebelow's Den visiting our troop recently, And then we're also going to talk about some measures that you can take to retain older Scouts, And then I've got two or three email questions to answer, and that's going to do it for this podcast. So let's get started, shall we?

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less. Just the other night we hosted a couple of Weebelow's Den's at a troop meeting. They had come to visit us And I got to say I'm never really sure what the best way to handle this is. We've done all kinds of things. We've tried the PowerPoint presentation to the parents while the boys were off doing some super special activity that the Scouts had planned for them and just absolutely fallen flat.

And I think this one went real well, And here's why It's kind of surprised us. I mean, it was January, We were just coming back from the holidays And you know we kind of threw it together. To tell you the truth, Let me tell you how it worked. The committee chairman talked to them for a bit about basic troop functions and administrative things and what it would be like to have a son in the troop. From that standpoint, I had conferences and other things that I needed to do.

So while he was doing that I took care of business. And then I came in after about 20 minutes and he introduced me to the parents and I said a brief hello and explained to them that probably the best way for them to learn about our scout troop was to talk to our Scouts.

You know that I would be happy to talk to them for as long as they like, but that I didn't think that that would paint as good a picture as our Scouts would. One thing that we always do with Weeblows or visiting the troop is. We send the Weeblows off with the Scouts to do whatever they're doing and the parents come into another room and we spend some time talking to them and fielding questions and whatnot. But just before I headed to that parents' room I asked a scout who joined the troop last year if he could spare about 10 minutes.

I checked with his patrol leader make sure that was okay And he said he'd be happy to do that and I asked him to follow me. I didn't tell him what we were going to be doing And I brought him into that parents' room and I introduced him to a group of parents and I explained that the scout had no idea why he was there but that he'd be happy to talk to them and answer any question they may have about what he's been up to for the past year. And he looked at me a little confused but I reassured him. It wasn't a test, It was just a chance for these parents to talk to him and he found his feet pretty quick and I don't really know what they asked him or what he answered, because I left the room to get a scout who had been in the troop for two or three years. When I returned, I thanked the first year scout for his time and sent him back to his patrol and introduced the next scout, explaining he'd been one of us for two or three years, And again left him in the room with the parents while he answered questions and I went to find our senior patrol leader. I asked the senior patrol leader if he could spare a few minutes and once again I really didn't tell him what he was going to be up to and I took him back to the parents' room, sent our three-year veteran back to his patrol, introduced the senior patrol leader and the parents were able to ask him questions and I went out to get my next two speakers.

I would like to say that we had carefully planned this, but it just was a happy accident that two of our alumni were visiting at the time. I mean, it was, you know, we were in the middle of that big winter break for college, Found them in the troop meeting and I asked them if they had a few minutes and they followed me to the parents' room where I thanked the senior patrol leader for his time and let him get back to his work, and I introduced our two alumni by saying something like you know.

So far. Tonight you've heard from a scout who joined the troop last year, one who's been around for three years, and our senior patrol leader who's been around for five or six years- and I want to introduce you to two young men who were scouts in this troop. They both became Eagle Scouts. They're home for their winter break.

Now you get a look at where your son could be headed if he joins our troop. Go ahead and ask any question you like and by the time they're done you will have formed a pretty good picture of what a boy experiences all the way through the years he can spend with our troop.

Now those two fellows fielded questions for five or 10 minutes or so and I finished up with, you know, my five minutes of disjointed rambling. I can edit the stuff I say on the podcast and it just makes me sound a little more intelligent that way. I wish I could do that when I was speaking to a group, you know. But we dismissed the parents meeting and one of the assistant Scoutmasters had some pictures of our trip to Switzerland to show them if they were interested in taking a look at it, and they could also go out and observe what was going on with the scouts before we had our closing. I was really happy with that Webelez visit.

Now we've done the deal where we've brought scouts in to talk to parents before, but it was a little more formal and this was a little less formal and I think it worked pretty good and I think that the parents got more out of it too. I'm not exactly sure what our scouts had planned for the Webelez for that meeting. They didn't turn themselves inside out, but they knew that the Webelez were coming and they were ready for them and took them through the meeting as they would in other patrol, and I saw some happy faces at the end.

So I'll be looking forward to hearing how the whole visit was received and see if we get some Webelez joined the troop out of it. Now that's one end of the spectrum- bringing new boys into the troop- and the other end of the spectrum is keeping our older scouts active and involved, and it's always a perennial concern. We bring our hands a lot over losing older scouts and many troops do have a problem keeping them around.

I think a lot of times the standard response is amping up the wow factor of the program and trying to keep these boys entertained, but I've never really been fond of that approach. I keep my hand in at our summer camp and work with the camp director and the program director a bit. We are under constant pressure for the summer camp programs to add yet another older boy program to entice them back for another year, because we think that they're not going to be interested unless there's some big flashy, entertaining thing going on.

After watching this go on for 25 years or so, these programs kind of come and go. They don't really end up pushing the attendance numbers all that much and they drain a lot of resources. I do believe older scouts want to have a great time and do fun, exciting things, but all scouts want to do that. Simply turning up the wow factor doesn't really keep older scouts engaged and that's because they're looking for much more than just fun.

What really gets them interested, What really keeps them around? That's a pretty simple answer and it's kept our older scouts involved well past the time you'd normally expect. When we're rechartering each year. Our dropped scout survey usually includes two or three older scouts because they aged out, not because they've lost interest. Here's 10 things that we do to keep older scouts engaged.

Number one is our older scouts run the troop with real independent responsibility for the welfare of the troops program, and I could just stop there and that would be enough, I think. But that's tremendously important. If they're not running things, if they don't have that real independent responsibility, they're not going to be interested for very long. Number two is our adult leaders are taught to encourage and support our scouts from a respectful distance.

We do our best to let them live their own lives and not to interfere, and I think that's a pretty important aspect. Number three is we accept that mistakes are inevitable and that they're not all punishable crimes. We work hard to be encouraging and understanding. When a boy steps out of line or there's some kind of difficulty, We try and give them as much latitude as possible to make mistakes or errors of judgment, without invoking the Nuremberg trial or anything like that. It's not a boys will be boys atmosphere, not at all. But we understand that they will indeed make mistakes and misjudgements and we're prepared to deal with them in, hopefully, a constructive and encouraging manner.

Number four: we let these older scouts be who they are, and what I mean by that is sometimes that older scout shows up with purple hair or his choice of a hat or some other kind of costume- and when I say costume, you know what I mean- right, The stuff they wear to show their rugged individualism so that they look like every other rugged individual. I found that if we respond to all this with nothing more than a slightly raised eyebrow and we accept that this is a stage that many boys go through, we're not going to make a big giant deal out of it.

Okay, so you want to do the purple hair thing for a while? Well, I've seen that before.

You want to wear that crazy hat? Okay?

Well, I was a boy once too and I probably look just about as silly as you do now. Let them be themselves and don't make a big giant deal over these things. That are just stages of growth. Number five: we accept that not every older scout will be at every single outing and meeting. I guess what I'm saying is is: we look at the glass as being half full. Beyond that, we also want them to take part in other things- in the community, in school and in their church and their family, and when they do, they take what they've learned in scouting out with them.

Number six: we encourage a healthy culture of positive peer pressure. We try to celebrate accomplishments and minimize failures. And that healthy peer pressure. It's a very positive thing, not only for our older scouts but for our younger ones as well. Number seven: we try and build an atmosphere of respect, real concern and care for the welfare of our younger scouts. We make it the first priority of everyone in the troop.

We monitor for any kind of cruelty or bullying or hazing and we manage it right as soon as we know about it. This is another one of those things that you can't get too worked up about when it occurs, because it's something that you should expect and you should be prepared to handle.

Again, not a boys will be boys atmosphere of permissiveness, but authoritative leadership from the adults when these types of things happen and we step in and we make what corrections we need and we keep that positive emphasis in all of our actions. Number eight: we don't nitpick the decisions made by our older scouts that offer much in the way of unsolicited advice.

Do you remember how you learned to cook? You made mistakes along the way, You tried some things out that weren't a very good idea and it's very tempting as an adult to watch these guys try to do something and want to fix it for them or want to bring your advice to it, but sometimes you just have to let them be.

Let them give it a try, even though you've seen it a hundred times and you know it's not going to work. Let them let them at it. When they figure out it doesn't work, they'll move on to something else and they might even ask your advice if you aren't over there poking your nose in it. Number nine: we do our best to give our older scouts plenty of time to spend with each other.

We have an expectation that they work actively with younger scouts, but we want to also make sure that they get to hang out with their friends. I mean, that's one of the big reasons that they're there. Number ten: and before I say number ten, I'm sharing with you information that was in a post that I put up on the blog a couple of weeks ago. And boy, you all are sharp because within minutes, literally minutes- of this post going up, I had objections to number ten. And number ten is: we don't pay much attention when a scout doesn't wear a uniform, If the choice is having him there without a uniform or his dropping out because we get all nitpicky and we force him to wear a uniform.

I'd rather have him there Now for sure. That raises your eyebrows because uniforming is one of the methods of scouting and scouts ought to be required to wear uniforms. And you know. I agree that uniforming is a method, and if you show me a rule or regulation from scouting literature that says boys are required to wear uniforms, I will follow it. There are a lot of expectations and encouragements to wear uniform, but no policy requires it. I wear mine, as do the other adults and most of the other scouts, and that's good.

Our senior patrol leader wears his uniform. He always encourages others to follow his example, but he's not going to use any negative reinforcement if they don't. Once again, if the choice is between keeping a boy involved without a uniform being worn all the time or losing him because we make him wear it, I will choose the scout every time.

Now, the rule for wearing a uniform will be found in the uniform and insignia guide on page 5 under the heading official policy, and I'll read it to you here. While wearing the uniform is not mandatory, it is highly encouraged. The leaders of scouting, both volunteer and professional, promote the wearing of the correct, complete uniform on all suitable occasions. And as with any of these methods of scouting, I can't force a boy to wear uniform. I encourage him. I set an example by wearing my own, but I won't force him.

I don't force boys to participate in the outdoor program. I encourage them. I set an example by going myself, but I'm not going to force them to do that. I don't force boys to use the patrol system. I encourage them, but I won't force them. I don't force them to work with younger scouts.

I encourage them. I set the example by working with them. I don't force scouts to do their job. They take on a position of setting an example by being responsible, but I can't force them to be responsible, nor will I try. Scouting is not about scouts meeting my expectations. It's about them forming and meeting their own expectations.

Boys are in scouts voluntarily. They aren't there to do as they're told and to toe the line. They're there to build something for and about themselves. I won't force. I'll hang it in the street by the street by, And we will dance into the street by street by. Write me a letter, send it by name Email.

That is folks,

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Hey, here's some email questions that have come in.

John Hibner is in Indiana And he says: do you have any suggestions On how to get a dysfunctional troop to turn the corner And operate properly using the patrol method? Our troop historically has had about 20 active scouts. We've managed to get a handful of older scouts To the youth leader training, But it seems to wear off in a matter of months. I have an inter-battle, like most scout leaders, With keeping from interfering with troop operations, But it's frustrating for me because it seems Boys never get to the point where they operate As scouting was intended 90% of the time And, truth be told, sometimes our troop Is nothing better than a loosely organized boys club Where all they want to do is play a game During the entire meeting.

Well, John, a lot of this begins, of course, With the adults who are involved with the troop, And you all need to sit down And kind of hit the reset button And say: what are we really trying to do here And do a little bit of studying And talking amongst yourselves. Let the boys play games in their meetings.

For now- And you'll get to that later- The first thing you've got to do Is you've got to get all the adults Who are involved with the troop on the same page And make a commitment to this. Then you need to realize that the patrol method And youth leadership is not throwing a switch. It's not either, or It's not.

Well, the boys just play games For every meeting because you know It's a boy-led troop and this is what they wanted to do. Nope, they need some structure And they need some information.

Now you would think that you would be able To send them to youth leader training And they would get that structure and information And they would bring it back to the troop. But that is not a very common occurrence, To tell you the truth. Youth leader training is a good start, But unless the adults in the troop Are ready to work with the structure And information that was imparted At youth leader training, Things are going to wear off. The corner you're going to turn Is going to begin with the adults. You're going to sit down And you're going to sort things out And shape an attitude in the scouts Where they understand the importance Of these things and they begin Putting them into practice. What this looks like from where you sit And what it looks like From where the scouts are Is a trick of perspective.

We've said over and over again That when the patrol method is in practice It can look very messy And disorganized and chaotic. But you need to develop And cultivate the perspective For seeing that it's working.

Boys have a lot of instinctual ability To do this But they're kind of Stumbling through it And working it out as they go along And it looks like a mess And you need to learn to look for Those encouraging signs That they're beginning to get it And then cultivating that As they go along. But it's a big job But it's very, very possible And it certainly works. John, I hope that helped. Do get in touch with me if I can help you any further. Dave wrote in about a post that we Had last week about a change to the Merit Badge card.

Now The change simply was in the wording Underneath the unit leader's signature, Because The old Merit Badge card Indicated that this was the unit leader's approval That a scout was qualified to take the Merit Badge And that's been largely misunderstood By some of us Who think that the process That we go through before we sign A blue card to qualify A scout to take a Merit Badge Means that we're going to make a decision About what Merit Badges they should be working on And when and at what age, And we're going to prevent them from Doing ones we don't think they ought to do, Or with counselors that we don't like Or something like that. That's never been policy, And so the new wording underneath That unit leader's signature That the Merit Badge has been discussed with the scout And we have given him The name of at least one qualified counselor. In response to that post, Dave wrote in and he said This is a great improvement And should help scouts who may have a leader Who's gone slightly astray. I would like to get some guidance on Who can sign a Merit Badge card. Unit leader is intentionally Vague to allow for the Leaders of troops and crews and teams, While unit leader typically In a troop typically means Scoutmaster, I have found No documentation that says it's limited Only to a Scoutmaster doing this. I'm an assistant Scoutmaster And I count myself as a unit leader.

I'm looking at this That the literature tells us that Scoutmasters Do Scoutmaster conferences, but I know In practice a lot of assistant Scoutmasters Do Scoutmaster conferences as well. Our troop has about 70 scouts- Hey, Dave, good job there- And our Scoutmaster wants Me to sign blue cards, But our committee chair does not want me Signing blue cards or doing conferences, Stating that it's the Scoutmaster's Job alone.

You know, truthfully, with 70 plus scouts, I don't believe it's very realistic to ask One man to do all of This by himself, And it tends to be a disservice to the scouts To do so. Well, Dave, I agree with what you've said there And, as you noted, all the literature Talks about this being the unit leader Of the troop. Indeed, that is a Scoutmaster And while it's not Explicitly explained, Our common sense should lead us To understand that, especially in a troop With a lot of scouts, A Scoutmaster is going to delegate Some of those responsibilities to his assistants.

It's pretty clear that this is The responsibility of the unit leader, But common sense tells us That a good leader delegates And that it's certainly fine For an assistant Scoutmaster to conduct A Scoutmaster's conference or to sign a blue card, So long as they're trained And that they have been delegated To do so by the unit leader, the Scoutmaster. Troy Barber is the Scoutmaster Of troop 994 In Fairfax station, Virginia. He says I love the podcast. It's helped me over the past couple of years After I became a Scoutmaster for our troop. I have a question about the proper procedures For Transferring signed off requirements From one scout handbook To a new one. I have a second class scout That recently transferred to our troop.

His old scout handbook is falling apart And he and his parents came To me With photocopies of the signed off Requirements in his old book Along with his new handbook And asked if I could sign those requirements In his new book. I've looked all around But I can't find any guidance on this.

Do I transfer the requirements and sign them Off under my own initials? Do I transfer the dates and the original Initials and add my initials to the Requirements?

Do I have the scout Just to attach the photocopies Or original pages to his old Book? I'd appreciate your thoughts. I checked in with the national advancement Team on this Now. I was pretty sure That any one of the approaches that you Described would be fine. They backed Me up on that and they said: yeah, use your common Sense and make sure the records are transferred Into the new handbook.

I think We've all run into this at one time or another. You know, a scout handbook Gets some pretty hard use and it can kind of disintegrate, And boys do have A propensity for losing them once in a while.

So recreating The Requirements that have already been signed off In a new book- There's lots of different ways To do it. If we keep with the spirit of the thing, We can take any one of those methods That you suggest to Troy To certify His new handbook And hopefully it'll hold together for the next Few years. I appreciate everybody For sending in an email question. You're certainly welcome to join them. We'd love to hear from you And you're going to find out how to get in touch In just a moment.