Scoutmaster Podcast 153

This edition of Scoutmaster Podcast is brought to you by the folks at Conahoe Creek Outfitters. They know camping and they know scouts. They are scouts And they know how to get you great gear and great prices for all you camping adventures.

So go visit them at conahoecreakcom, at conohocreakcom. And now the old scoutmaster.

Hey, let's remember that a good scoutmaster never puts off until tomorrow what he can get an assistant scoutmaster to do today, right? Hey, this is podcast number 153.

Music. Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Let's take a look at the mailbag. Kevin's the scoutmaster of Troop 256 in Seward Nebraska, And he wrote in to say thank you for the podcast and the blog. I find it helpful and reassuring that other scouts seem to have the same challenges and success as I see a scoutmaster.

Yep, that's true, We're all in this together. Thanks for being in touch. Kevin Certainly appreciate hearing from you. Curtis Doherts is in Troop 238 in Welcome, North Carolina And he wrote in to say: I rediscovered the blog and podcast just in time for the long holiday break and I'm feverishly trying to make up for years of lost time. I can't get enough of it.

I now have a much clearer direction for 2013 and my work with youth. Thanks for doing what you do. It's highly appreciated and valued. Thank you, Curtis, for being in touch and for those words of encouragement. I'm glad that people find this helpful.

So a couple of new things happening around the blog and the podcast, And I've got a couple of guests to talk about that. For the past couple of podcasts, I've mentioned this live event coming up on this Sunday, January 13th, And to talk a little bit more in detail about that, I'm bringing in my co-conspirator, Arlen Ward.

How are you doing, Arlen? I'm doing great.

Most of you will remember Arlen from a previous scoutmaster panel discussion. He was on there and he's been a friend of the podcast and the blog for a long time And we kind of got talking, got together.

Well, Arlen, tell them what's going to happen. This coming Sunday We are putting together a Google Plus Hangout where we are inviting people to participate in monthly presentations where we talk about an interesting topic for scouting.

This first month we're going to talk about the STEM and NOVA programs that the BSA has launched And we have two guests with us: Matt Myers, who was instrumental in getting it started, and Lisa Valbez, who's implementing a lot of it at the council level for the Amluas Area Council. So a Google Plus Hangout is basically like a video conference.

And how would I view this video conference, this scout circle thing? Well, if you're part of Google Plus and the Google Plus circles, you can see it there through the scout circle page. That will show the Hangout when it's broadcast. If you're not on Google Plus, go to scoutscircleorg.

Well, there'll be a post that includes the stream of the presentation So you can watch it live, or you can come back and watch it later if you're not able to make out on Sunday evening Nine Eastern time or six Pacific and everybody in between. So the conference is going to be recorded right, And you'll be able to see it on scoutscircleorg.

So is this just something that we watch or is it something we participate in? So there's a couple of ways to get involved. If there's questions that come up along the way, they can be posted through comments. There'll be interactions in the comments on the Google Plus page, or we'll have email set up where, if you're watching it from the scout circle page, you can email your questions in. In addition to that will be monitoring Twitter for the scout circle hashtag if you've got things that you want to ask or interact through that way.

Okay, so let me just review. You can go to Google Plus, follow scoutscircleorg. That way you can see this presentation on Google Plus. Or you can go directly to the website scoutscircleorg on Sunday, January 13,, 9 o'clock Eastern Standard Time and see it being broadcast there live and participate through the comment feature on Google Plus. Or you can email questions in from scoutscircleorg, or you can tweet your question with the hashtag scout circle- one word- scout circle- and you'll be participating in the question and answer part of it.

How long is this going to last? I think we said that we would keep it to one hour.

Yes, yes, How's that going to work? Well, we'll spend the first half of that going through presentations and getting the information from Matt and Lisa, And we'll spend the second half an hour answering questions, addressing issues that other people bring around- the STEM and NOVA program.

Okay then, Well, there you have it This Sunday, January 13,, 9 o'clock Eastern Time on Google Plus or at scoutscircleorg. So you heard at the beginning of the podcast a new sponsor announcement and I wanted to talk about that a little bit. To help me do that, I've got Bill Fleming on the phone here.

How are you doing, Bill? I'm great.

Bill is currently the Scoutmaster of Troop 388 in Raleigh, North Carolina, And we were just talking a moment ago about the different things that he's done in scouting and we talk about wearing different hats. Well, Bill's worn a lot of different hats. He's helped out with Cubs, He's worked with his OA Lodge, He's worked with his council and district.

I think, Bill, we could safely say you know scouting pretty well. Yeah, I've been around it.

Now I think my next service store will be my 19-year service store And you're an Eagle Scout to boot, so you are a scout as a boy. Oh yeah, I was in that scouting life and really embraced scouting as a youth and how much fun and the great friendships you can develop through scouting. The reason I asked Bill to come on and talk about this is he is also the owner of Conahoe Creek Outfitters And they are sponsoring the podcast and you'll see some ads for them on the blog.

So they know scouts, They are scouts, They know what gear scouts use and they know what the best stuff is to get out there and they can do it for you at a good price. Yeah, that's exactly. Our plan is to help people get properly outfitted without buying unnecessary equipment, And as a scouter, I've seen parents go out and buy things that were absolutely useless through their scouting in the long run- Right- And only to see that it even failed them because it was the wrong equipment And of course that would turn the scout off of the adventure of scouting.

Troops end up putting a pretty good chunk of change into tents and cooking gear and stuff like that, And that's a big investment to get wrong, isn't it? Absolutely, And we also not only work with the individual scouts but we'll work with a unit and helping them get properly outfitted as well And know that they're stepping out into great outdoors with equipment that's going to serve them well.

And after being a Scoutmaster for eight plus years now, seeing how the equipment is handled by boys- And, granted, our guys have been good, But they're still boys And so equipment gets handled a little rougher than maybe you'd like And, of course, a lot of good use- We've seen what will fail and what will stand to test the time. That's important. I have always thought that it would make sense for somebody who was making a tent or a sleeping bag or something to hand it over to a scout troop for a year. I don't think there's any better field testing than that right there.

It's like the UL laboratories of the outdoors, isn't it? Absolutely So we're sending people to kanahocreekcom And there they're going to find a list of some of the things that you have.

If I was a Scoutmaster and I wanted to talk to you about buying tents for the troop or something like that, how would I go about doing that? The best way to do it is drop us an email- And, of course, you can find our email address right there on the website And we'll get back with you.

We want to work with you personally and not just be another number out there. We want to really make sure that we're getting you the equipment that's going to serve you well, Because what might serve one person in Texas might not serve another person- say a name.

It's a totally different need, And so we want to help make sure that you're getting the right equipment And, in turn, once we kind of know what you're looking for, we're going to try our best to put the best bundle together for you so that we can give you the best price as well. And talk about price for a moment. Compare your pricing to what I would find if I walked into REI or one of the big outfitters like that.

Well, real often we're under what they're selling their items for. We don't have the overhead that they're having to carry both as well as physical and personnel, And so we're able to pass those savings along to you.

I also at times had a troop call me and said we want X number of tents And I've actually gone back to our supplier at that point and said: listen, we're buying these tents for Boy Scout troops. Can you give us an additional percent off on that?

And then we'll just pass that right along to the customer as well, Because, being scouters, we're here to help get these guys out in the woods and be comfortable while they're out there. So yeah, we'll sometimes be able to take those extra measures and help everybody.

There's always a question, when you're talking about scouting and you're talking about business, that people will see us trying to leverage our association with scouting towards making a big profit somehow, And I think it's responsible to talk about that for a moment. So tell me a little bit about what you're doing and your business philosophy with Conahoe Creek. And of course, it's true I've never even pitched Conahoe Creek to the parents of my own troop Just because we both have. When you understand where I'm coming from, I don't want somebody to think that I'm Skymaster solely for the purpose of making a sale. I'm here truly to serve scouting and serve people with the knowledge that I have.

I think it's important and responsible for us to make clear that this is not a nonprofit enterprise, It's business. But at the same time you're not just looking at this solely as a business. No, Clark, In fact we've worked real hard to keep that separation there, The fact that we are scouts. We're constantly trying to get back to the community.

Part of that is sharing the knowledge that we have of our equipment through some of the video presentations that we'll start posting online soon so that you can go to our site and learn about the equipment and how it's used and how it's functional, what we like or don't like about it. So an actual video review, if you will.

And then we're also in the community trying to give back also to some financial aid. We're taking a percentage of our profits and going to fund a camporship at our local Boy Scout camp, Camp Durant here in North Carolina.

So we're constantly trying to help the boys get into the outdoors as best as possible, And we're kind of sweet in the pot. This month There's a coupon code that you can use.

What's that code, Bill? That code? When you're checking out, there's an opportunity for you to enter a coupon code upon checkout, And that code for the podcast is CG113..

Okay, So CG113 is the code. The way to find them on the web is Conahoe Creek And that's c-o-n-o-h-o-creekcom.

Did I get that right? You got it.

Okay, We will see you at the creek. All right, Bill?

Well, thanks very much. Yes, Thank you, Clark.

I should mention that the coupon that Bill and I discussed is a special 5% discount for our listeners And on the rest of this podcast we have in Scout MasterChip in seven minutes or less- Guess what? It's longer than seven minutes. Surprise, We're going to talk about objective and subjective decision-making, And that's what's in store.

So let's get started, shall we? Scout MasterChip in seven minutes Or less.

There's a key element of being a scouter- Whether you're a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster, you're on the troop committee or something like that, And that is making judgments and making decisions. This may be oversimplifying the case for some decisions and judgments, but let's divide them into two groups. One is objective and one is subjective. Objective things are easy to decide and to judge.

For instance, if a Scout comes to you to have a requirement signed off and that requirement is that he swam for a hundred yards, that's a pretty objective judgment, right there, Diddy, or didn't he, If you're a Merripadge counselor and a Scout, supposed to camp out for X number of nights to qualify for a requirement for the Merripadge? Objective judgment- Very simple, And there's just not a whole lot of question about that where we have to try and sort out different issues and things. Somebody suggests that, hey, let's take the troop and go play paintball. And you go to the guide to save scouting and you see that it is specifically prohibited And that's an objective judgment. It's pretty easy. An assistant Scoutmaster asks if he can sit on a board of review for a rank.

You go to the guide to advancement 2011,. Objective judgment: It says, right there, no, assistant Scoutmasters don't do this.

So there are matters of policy. There are matters in the advancement system where there are clear, objective judgments.

The other kind of judgment, that subjective judgment, let's say, in advancement, did a scout show scout spirit? Was he active in his troop and patrol.

Okay, that's a subjective judgment because there's no clearly defined objective standard And those subjective judgments seem to be where we really run into a lot of problems. I get a lot of emails about Scoutmasters or other scouters who are kind of stuck on having to make these subjective judgments.

And then there's the question of who gets to make this decision. Do the youth leaders get to make this decision, Or does this Scoutmaster make this decision, Or does the committee make the decision? And pretty soon you've opened up a can of beans or you're in a real kettle of fish or any other kind of food stuff of your choice And things come to a grinding halt and feelings get involved in it And these things can really blow up And they can make life very difficult for us as scouters and it can make life difficult for our scouts and their families.

So let's talk about a method of arriving at a subjective judgment or decision, And the method I want to suggest to you is not to make this judgment or the decision based on what you think and your opinion. We have to have a pretty strong personality to be a scouter, Especially to be a cub master or Scoutmaster or a den leader or something like that. It's good to have a pretty strong personality and to be grounded in your opinions and things like that. But it can also be a double edged sword, because when you get into these areas of subjective judgment, you think, oh man, this is something that I have to decide.

And you know, if you're a scouter, you know normally you have a pretty big heart and you don't want to make the wrong decision, You don't want to arrive at the wrong judgment, And it can be really really upsetting. So for me, there's a surefire way to do this, And it's very, very simple, And that is is don't rely on your own opinion and don't rely on your own judgment, Not exclusively.

So whose opinion and whose judgment do we rely on? If we're dealing with a broader question of program or something like that, we can rely on the collective wisdom of the Patrol Leaders Council.

Now, some of you are going to say that a phrase like the collective wisdom of the Patrol Leaders Council is a contradiction in terms, But you know what They know more than you think that they do. If it's dealing with one specific scout, we're going to rely on the judgment and the opinion of that scout. I'll tell you how to do it in a moment, But first let me tell you why it would be important to do this.

What is our goal? Our main aim in scouting is to develop happy, useful, contributing members of society.

We can all agree on that point, right. To be a happy, useful, contributing member of society, you need an internal standard. You need an internal standard that's informed by a moral code and an ethical code.

We have a moral and ethical code called the Scout Oath and the Scout Law, And what we want to see- our main aim- is to see our Scouts weave the moral and ethical code of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law into their characters And to be able to call on that as something that motivates them in life. That's something that illuminates their judgments and their decisions.

So for that to happen, they've got to have some practice at making judgments and decisions. They need to develop that internal standard and call on it. When we call on a scout's internal standard to judge for themselves, we're strengthening the idea that how others see them is not as important as what motivates them internally.

We want them to judge their own actions based on self-knowledge and self-motivation. We want them to understand that their needs and interests are only going to be met in the context of a wider community, And making this happen is at the very heart of our work as Scouters.

So that's why I think this method of making these subjective judgments is important. So how do you do it?

Well, if you're a long-time listener to the podcast or reader of the blog, this is not going to be a surprise to you. But you ask questions, Because every time you ask a question, what we're doing is we're getting a scout to look inward and to find an answer there.

So here's a couple of for instances. Okay, And these are actually based in a couple of emails that I've received.

Let's say that we have an older scout who has a bit of a checkered career in his attitude and the way that he does things and just kind of the way he comes off to people. And he comes to us seeking appointment to being like a junior assistant Scoutmaster.

Let's say: And man, we've watched this boy, Even though he's managed to become an Eagle Scout, even though he served as a leader in the troop in the past, he's got an attitude and he's had to apologize a number of times, and you know, I think you get the idea right. So how do we deal with this? If it's up to us to make a judgment whether or not he's qualified for that particular appointment and we just exercise our judgment or our opinion unilaterally, what we're doing is we're denying this scout an incredible growth opportunity, looking at his own internal standard and seeing if he meets that standard. To get him to do that, we sit down and we ask him some questions. Maybe this particular scout needs to think about the relationship between power and authority and rank and service and responsibility. Maybe he needs to be asked some questions about his past behavior, not in a judgmental way.

Maybe he needs to be asked to explain how that jibes with his internal standard of how people ought to be. So by inviting that judgment, through asking questions, we help him strengthen that internal standard. I mean, the alternative way of doing this is just to take the request please appoint me to be a junior assistant Scoutmaster and just saying nope, ain't going to do it because you've got an attitude problem and I don't want to deal with it.

Or we can see if we can actually advance the potential of this scout and the incredibly strong purposes and aims of scouting By working with him to find the answer to that question. You know, a common thing that happens at a Scoutmaster's conference is you're going to probably sign off the requirement for scout spirit or active participation or the fulfillment of a position of responsibility, and those are subjective things And we talked a little bit about this back when we were talking about advancement a couple of podcasts ago. The way to make that judgment is not to make that judgment for yourself, but to bring the scouts internal standard into play. Another common difficulty is questions of discipline or responsibility or accountability. Don't make those decisions on your own. Don't just issue an opinion.

Tap the scouts inner standard, not just making a bunch of statements, but by asking questions and really really listening to the replies and work right along with them to come up and craft a solution to whatever problem has arisen. And in these questions of discipline and accountability and things like that, that's why I'm not a big fan of creating a whole bunch of rules.

We have the scout oath and we have the scout law. That's the rule. Those are the rules.

How has that scout interpreted them? How does he justify his actions by the scout oath and law? Or how does the scout oath and law condemn his actions. It's an independent, it becomes an independent moral and ethical force rather than just the Scoutmaster's judgment of right and wrong.

And when you set this up as this independent moral and ethical force, then both you and the scout are on the same side of the table, aren't you? And you're looking at it and you're saying, okay, you know, we had a bit of a problem here, So let's talk about a little bit.

Let me ask you a few questions about it. So there are objective questions of policy or advancement metrics or things like that, And those objective questions they're pretty easy to decide. But as a scout leader, as a Scoutmaster, cub master, den leader, whatever you are going to be in the position of making these subjective judgments, My advice: don't make them on your own. By asking questions and listening carefully, tap a scout's own internal standard of the scout oath and law and arrive at an answer to that subjective judgment together.