Scoutmaster Podcast 145

And now the old Scoutmaster. I will, uh, make us all sound incredibly intelligent. You got your work cut out for you, Clark.

Yeah, every month, You know, after this whole experience, you know what they say about making sausage and loz. It's just Yep The peak behind the curtain. It's quite a show.

Well, we do our best. Okay, this is podcast number 145..

Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green. Last week's trivia question was: we all know Baden Powell held the first scout encampment on Brown Sea Island in 1907.

What was the name of the landowner who allowed scouts to use his property for that encampment? And I gave you a hint, and the hint was his last name had two a's And the answer is Charles Van Routt. In 1907, when Baden Powell was visiting Ireland, he made friends with Mr and Mrs Charles Van Routt and they invited him to visit their country home on Brown Sea Island.

Now, Baden Powell, as a boy, had sailed in Pool Harbor near Brown Sea with his brothers and he knew the island and they'd even landed on it before, And he became convinced that Brown Sea would make the ideal location for his first camping experiment. It was isolated, but it wasn't too far away from civilization to get provisions, And so he sent a letter to Charles Van Routt and asked for permission to use the island, and it produced an immediate response. Of course he could, And the rest is history, as they say. A number of you went to scoutmastercgcom and submitted your answers. I got a lot of replies for Charles Van Routt. I did get a few votes for Major Kenneth McLaren but, sorry, wrong answer.

It wasn't Major Kenneth McLaren. We'll talk about him another time, shall we? This week's winner, chosen randomly from amongst the correct answers, is Ann Olson.

So, Ann, I'm going to get an email to you and make sure that you get your prize, which is a copy of Cliff Jacobson's Camping's Top Secrets, One of my all-time favorite camping books, And we'll have a copy of that winging its way to you very soon indeed. If you joined in all the fun and you ordered a Stuff Adult Leaders Say t-shirt, I got good news. They're headed to the post office this week.

We finally got them, got them all packed up and getting ready to send them out, So look for them soon. And we nearly made the deadline, Which is the middle of November, pretty much, So I really appreciate it. That was a lot of fun.

There are no more of those t-shirts available, So treasure the ones that you get, because I'm sure they will become a valuable collector's item. Well, I'm not sure of that at all.

But hey, in this week's podcast we have a Scoutmaster panel discussion. We have a wonderful guest and a great question, which is: should I start a Boy Scout troop?

And if I do, what should I be thinking about? And I know you're anxious to hear that.

So let's get started, shall we? It's time for another Scoutmaster panel discussion. Joining me is Larry Geiger, down in Vieira, Florida.

How you doing, Larry Good Hey Clark? And we've got Tom Gillard in Tallahoma, Tennessee. Hello, Tom Hey Clark. And Walter Underwood's out there in Palo Alto, California. Howdy Saw within the past couple of weeks that the Eagle rank merit badges are going to change over the next year or so.

Have you guys seen that? I did, I did, And there's going to be a new alternative for environmental science called sustainability.

Is that right? That's correct.

Now, I haven't seen any requirements or anything on that. I don't think they've published too much on it.

Does anybody know any more about it than I do? I searched for it and it's not giving you anything yet.

And then cooking merit badge is going to be revamped a bit and become an Eagle-required merit badge. What's your take on that fellas? Again, it was an Eagle-required merit badge. Yes, It used to be an Eagle-required merit badge.

But now it's going back on the West. Back in the day when I was in there, I got mine and it was Eagle-required. Yeah, back before Tom got his, I got mine.

I don't remember that being required for mine, but I could have been encouraging the Scouts to do it, because we cook camp outs and different kinds of things And I think a lot of people have earned it without trying. I was our patrol cook.

I cooked all the time, so I'm all for cooking merit badge. I guess you could call it a suntan merit badge, because if you're out in a troop that's camping often and using the patrol system, you're going to end up cooking quite a bit and you're going to earn the merit badge. You're going to end up doing a lot of things towards the merit badge just in the course of what you're doing as a Scout. I like environmental science, but I'm glad that there's going to be a little expansion there and maybe an alternative to it.

My only thing is- I don't know if we want to add another required one. I think there ought to be about maybe 10, but that's just my opinion. Yeah, I can see the kind of inflation or other reduction of the choices, but cooking is a pretty basic skill. That's a great thing. Being able to do some stuff at home. It's really up there with personal management, with those kinds of life skills.

It looks like, well, they're going to redo the requirements also, but I was looking at the requirements for right now and it looks like a little bit of car camping, a little bit of backpacking and a little bit of home cooking stuff going on. So I don't know what they're going to change.

Well, it'll be interesting to see and I believe they're rolling out the changes to that and the new sustainability merit badge at the Jamboree next summer. Cooking is one of these.

That's been pretty consistent that you've got to do a menu for, say, three days in three different styles: backpacking, outdoors, home And then actually cook for I think it said two to three or three to four people. Well, I know when Larry did it, you had to either grow or kill anything that you cooked. It was a seven-course meal. It included a dessert- apple pie made from scratch. It included biscuits made from scratch, the main course and vegetables. I had to create a warm beverage.

I don't remember all the details. The fire I built burned up the roots of maybe 14-inch oak tree in the backyard and it eventually died. But I cooked all of that on an open fire in the backyard. Memories memories. One of my family remembers that meal and the tree that eventually died. A long time ago, Sustainability's coming out at the Jamboree, but cooking's coming out January of 14..

So you're googling as we're talking. No, I just remembered that. Oh really.

Well, good for you. I don't remember my last name half the time.

You know what guys? We're very fortunate. This time around on the panel discussion We've got a guest And that is Arlen Ward, And Arlen is a Cub Master out in Thornton, Colorado. Welcome to the panel discussion, Arlen.

Well, thank you, Clark. I was pleased to be able to participate in a Google Plus Hangout.

Larry, have you ever heard of a Google Plus Hangout? It's the vast panorama of social media that I haven't yet experienced. It was just a discussion about starting a scout troop, And I thought this would be an interesting subject for us to look at.

Have any of you guys- Tom or Larry or Walter, have you ever actually started a troop? I started a troop.

I was in troop 705 on Merritt Island for two years and we were asked to start a new troop, So 12 of us moved. I was already Scoutmaster.

The previous chartered organization was kind of iffy- They constantly moved our room around as a whole bunch of issues- And so the new organization- the head of the organization- was an Eagle Scout. They wanted us to come so I started a new unit. It was a bit of a challenge right at the beginning but it was a good thing.

A few years ago Cubs and our then had crossed over into a troop and we were having a pretty bad time of it. There was three or four older Scouts and the five younger Scouts- older being up in the 17s, and then had the 11-year-olds And I got wind that the Knights of Columbus wanted to start a troop.

So I went and talked to them and that was my first mistake. So we started the troop with the five that had crossed over. We just left that troop and started this one. The troop I was in as a youth was actually fairly new at our church. I'm sure my dad helped start that And my mom started a Cub Scout pack in Baton Rouge.

I've walked into a wonderful, functioning troop, so as a leader, I don't have that experience. I do not either.

So, Arlen, why this question? Why are you imagining that you're going to threaten your sanity by starting a Scout troop?

Well, we've got a great group of first-year weeblers that are just starting to look at troops, and we have a lot to choose from in our area. Some of them quite large, Some of them on the smaller side.

They each have their own personality, But we have a number of parents that have expressed an interest and said, hey, why not start one? Why not? And, as you have alluded to in previous podcasts, the call of hey, we could start over and we could do it exactly as it's supposed to be done. The whole Norman Rockwell ideal of what a Scout troop is supposed to be.

That's the first thing that goes into your head. And then I remember that this is Scouts and perhaps there's more to it.

Well, and the next step is the little rascal. So let's make a movie.

What is the first thing that you think about here? I mean, how do you advise somebody on this? My first thought was: Arlen said that there were quite a few troops And, like here, if you were to start a new troop, you're competing for the same boys.

There's four troops now and we really couldn't support another one. But if you've got a large enough group of boys to pull from each year, then maybe it would be okay to do that.

Would the pack that you're currently in become the feeder pack for the new troop? Possibly We become one of the troops that pulls from that pack.

Our pack sits around 50 to 60 boys generally and there's a number of other packs in our area. I don't think there would be too big of a problem with it being oversaturated. Being in a relatively urban suburban area, there's a lot of boys around here for sure.

The problem is troops without packs sometimes becomes iffy If you have one troop pulling from three packs or three troops pulling from one pack. You kind of get into these little binds.

The second thing that I would say the most important thing is your charter organization. Sometimes you kind of fall into that, but there's a lot of issues there and how they're going to support you.

For instance, the ideal meeting space is a room for the scouts and then a separate room for the adults in the door or something like that, but preferably not one big room. That's just one issue. There's a lot of others.

But is the head of the organization and the committee, whatever board, are they really on board about this thing? Are they really into having 30 kids running around every Tuesday night for two hours? There's a lot of things like that that you might want to kind of explore as you get into it.

If you find the right place and you're establishing an early relationship up front, I think is really really key. So, as far as looking at charter organizations without having one, that you hear through the grapevine that they're looking to start or anything like that, how do you approach them through your district executive?

Do you do that from scratch? Just introduce yourself and say, hey, I'm thinking about starting a scout troop. Yes, A professional scouter may have ideas. Yeah, I mean, there's some traditional ones. If you can find somebody there on one of the church boards or organization boards or the head of the organization that is going to support you, Because you need a charter organization representative, that's a member of the organization and that's the first person you want to identify if possible.

Haven't I heard that the group can be its own charter? It used to be possible to form a committee of citizens and charter a unit, but that is not being done anymore. The big troop in Palo Alto is the parents of troop 57.

Now I may be wrong about this. I know that in my council they are not interested in establishing units without a formal chartering organization existing in the community. Our PAC is actually chartered that way currently.

As concerned parents of group, We were told by our council that by recharter next year, we need to find a charter organization. Sounds like they're moving away from that. What I'm hearing from you guys, then, is a couple of important things.

Does the area support the idea of a new unit? I think one of the ways to look at that is to look at the number of scouts and, for instance, a given school district, and see what percentage of youth are being served in that school district, and take a look at the national average and see if it makes sense and then securing a chartered organization. It sounds like you might be able to kill a couple birds with one stone there. Arlen, if you guys are going to be looking for a chartered organization to sponsor the PAC, then you've got a pretty good entree with the possibility of starting a troop as well. You had mentioned that the charter organization rep was one of the first positions that you needed to fill.

What are some of the other adult positions that you would have to be filled before you really got started? You have to have somebody to sign the charter- The pastor or the head of the board or whatever.

Then you have to have a C-O-R, and I believe it's two committee members minimum to start the troop. The only other thing you need is two adult leaders, Usually a Scoutmaster and an assistant. The committee chairman would be the next real important adult position. To start with, I would agree that the committee chair is a pretty vital position to have filled.

Tom, what about finances and things like that? Scouting is not cheap and there's the yearly registration for the troop and then there's the yearly registration for the boys. You will need somebody to be a treasurer. There's a lot of money flows through.

A little scout troop Surprised us when, a few years back, we started looking at the fact that we were running about $20,000 or $30,000 a year through our account. Right, That's a troop of $30,000 to $35,000..

So if you start on this path and you've got the people to support you and the adults in the charter organization and you have a place to meet, then you're going to need either some equipment or there's got to be some other startup costs that go along with starting a troop right? Yeah, sort of You probably need to buy a troop flag, but I wouldn't get too wrapped around the handle about something like that.

You know, start off light. These new Webelos scouts that are going to be Boy Scouts aren't going to be backpacking with Walter's troop. You got three to six months at least of just ironing a few things out, But don't overdo that. Don't get too freaked out. Start your committee thinking about raising some money.

If somebody will donate you a few hundred dollars, Take that and then just go with it. So basically, you can get by on the cheap and still have a good time. Because you live in Colorado. You've probably got warm weather clothes- I mean cold weather clothes, Certainly- Sun glasses, ten essentials, all that stuff.

Well, guys, I'm going to have to drop off here in the spirit of cooking mirrored veg. I've got some chicken to pan fry and a charred gratin to prepare. Sounds good, That's charred C-H-A-R-D, not C-A-R-R-E-D or C-H-A-R. That's the seasoning part.

So, so confused Suggestions for the cooking mirrored veg. I'll be glad to help out. Thank you, Walter.

I'm sorry it took so long to get everything going. Glad to be here and switching over to the stove.

Is there any more to the? If part of it, I can imagine going ahead and starting a troop. That's going to be a pretty challenging thing. Larry and Tom, you've both been through that process in the end because you had to have two or three years of stress and difficulty there- Two or three. I'm trying to be optimistic. Yes, it's definitely been worth seeing the boys go from the little shy kid to actually being someone that you really would like to talk to and has something interesting to say.

But it's really. They've really become good citizens and all the stuff that Scouting promises.

I think it's a great thing. Organizationally, Arlen, in the overall scheme of things, the way Scouting grows as a whole is by building new units and not just troops go away, troops come, troops go. You're very much if you've got a charter organization and you've got these kids and parents. It's a great way to expand the Scouting program in Colorado.

I think it's a great thing. So my biggest thing that holds me back from doing this is the feeling, hearing the three to five years and feeling like you'd be short, changing those first group of boys that are coming in.

Are they losing anything out of this experience when they're starting off in a new troop, as opposed to having a troop with some older boys around to help mentor them and show them what it means to be a scout? Absolutely not. Yeah, there's a little bit of training you're going to have to do to teach them how to do patrols, the PLC.

That could have been done by some older Scouts and there are some advantages to that on occasion. But no, these guys are going to have their own troop and if you do it right, it's going to be theirs. And as they grow and begin teaching the younger kids, that's when they begin to reap the benefits: When they're 13,, 14,, 15 and they started a new troop and they're telling the younger guys about how this troop is going to be the troop for this area and it's going to be a great troop and they're teaching those younger guys. Actually, they're going to have some advantages that they wouldn't have in an existing troop. They are the first boys to step foot in this troop and that will become their troop and they will always be more proud of that, because the legacy of that troop started with them and those traditions that they start with them. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is going to be you guys pulling back.

If you don't have an existing guy, like Clark, say, or like Tom, that's been doing this for a long time, and as the new guys come in and grab them by the collar and back them back off to the adult area, if you guys can have the discipline to do that, send your little guys off occasionally and cross your eyes and pray or whatever. But if you can do that, you will be successful. I don't have any doubt about it. You don't want it to be We Blows 3- Yes, Everybody that has expressed an interest in this. I picked up a bunch of copies of the control method book and I've been giving them out like Christmas presents to anybody that thinks that this is a good idea, because it's not going to be like our Cub Scout pack has been, if we're going to do it for sure, If you've been reading Clark, you're definitely on the right path in the right direction. It will be harder to do what you're wanting to do to do this, but it will be rewarding also, instead of walking into a troop.

That it'll just be. It will be different, but it will be much more rewarding. Yes, you get to invent it, you and the guys, and that's cool and it's a lot of fun. And it never hurts to have the Rockwell image in your mind all the time anyway, because that's what you're striving for. But, like you said, the reality.

I think the reality is better. To tell you the truth, I like looking at Norman Rockwell stuff, but oh well, hahaha, I've often thought that it would be interesting just to try this again, just to start over again.

I think it would probably put some more gray hairs on my head, but I think it would probably be a lot of fun. That's. The big secret of this is that we get to have probably more fun than most of the boys do.

Arlen, are you thinking about being Scoutmaster? I am. Yeah, that's one possibility. There's a few other people that might want the job as too, but I would not be opposed to doing that. In 1991 I started Troop 705 on Merritt Island. My committee chairman was Mike Schoolfield.

Well, he has four sons and a daughter, and David is one of those- is getting married in December. Where I got an invitation to his wedding he was one of those 12 Scout. Those 12, 10 of them made Eagle Scout.

You know we were eventually grew up to like 50 Scouts and you know in the Troop meaning 40-50. Right at the beginning Mike and I bonded. He was my committee chairman for six years. It's just been a great time in my life. It's a cool thing.

You guys pretty much have me convinced to do it now sorry. Well, we can say sorry in a year or so.

What kind of reaction do you get from the other units? I mean, is it friendly, supportive, hostile? Your pack and the troop kind of go to a place and start together. They're gonna have a little bit of a hard time griping about that. Otherwise, troops and they get along fine.

You know, every month you go your own way and occasionally get together, you know, but it's not usually a problem. Yeah, since the troop that we left was so small, they didn't like it very much because that sort of put a death sentence on them.

They they survived for another two or three years and then they finally folded because they didn't have, they weren't getting any of the young boys coming in. You know, like Larry said, that we like each other. We see each other at round tables, we see each other at camperees, but for the most part we don't see each other. I would think you probably are gonna get reactions all over the map as a Scoutmaster of a long established troop and we're very healthy and we're in good shape. If somebody started a troop down the street, I would offer whatever we could do to help them succeed.

So the more choices that boys have, the better. It's more scouts and that's that's always a good thing. And almost five years ago now- but I'm gonna mention the name of a town, Lynchburg.

What famous comes from Lynchburg, Tennessee? They make soda pop there, don't they? There you go stout soda pop. They started a troop or they reorganized their troop and they had a very good relationship with me and and some of the other adults in the troop.

They wanted to come to the troop and be a patrol in in the troop and they did this for about six to nine months just to see how things were going before you know they would. They would come on Monday nights to our meeting and then they would go have their meetings on Tuesday nights and we were sort of their mentor.

So one of the troops that you've got somebody that you really know and and the troop is doing well and doing it right. You might want to talk to them and see if you can, just to see how things are are being done.

Let me ask you a question: have you talked to the boys that would be possible members of this troop- about the whole idea? We haven't yet because we didn't know if we wanted to present that to them as an option. I am fairly certain they're a pretty tight group of boys. They enjoy spending time together.

I'm pretty sure most of them- if they don't have older siblings in another troop, I would say most of them- are probably going to go as a group to do something and if we present them the option of, hey, you can start a troop and we can make it whatever you want, exactly like we've just been talking about, there's very little doubt in my mind that they will all stand up together and say: let's do it. You say they're wee blows ones. The thing that you want to do is you want to organize your troop in September.

You really really really camping a couple of times and then take them to summer camp. To do that you're going to need to start back in September, October. You and the adults want to have that first camp out and summer camp kind of lined up ahead of time and get your guys, if they go to camp that summer, couple camp outs nearby. Go to a park, set up tents, make some fires, go to summer camp. That September you'll be ready to start a program year and take off even without any older scouts or existing troop. You'll be set.

So you're thinking about summer camp in 2014, so next September. But you want to sit down with this group of parents who wants to be committee chairman and you know, here's what's going to cost to go to camp and I'd like to take- if I'm Scoutmaster, I'd like to take the guys to ABC park February or March for our first camp out. Do you approach the other packs in the area and also let them know that this is going on and they can join you on this adventure.

Well, wherever you can get some scouts, they'll be hearing about it though, yeah, they'll know. Yeah, I would definitely make sure everybody knows.

You know the DE is going to be happy as a clam. You're starting a new unit.

I mentioned it in passing and I think like it wasn't more than 24 hours and I was getting phone calls from other people but it sounded like it was, it was a done deal, watch that. But yeah, you don't have any Boy Scout experience yet. I grew up in scouts, I went through Cub Scouts and became an Eagle Scout.

I've been around the program and kind of know how well it worked for me and kind of what the overall vision of scouting is supposed to be, and I've kind of used that as the metric for looking at the troops around us. You're on your way, yep, yep, yep. It's a dangerous, dangerous thing here, dangerous group of people to talk to. It's like those roads out there in Colorado. But it's, uh, it sounds like a lot of fun.

And you know I just didn't want to get too carried away with thinking about the fun parts without realizing you know what I was getting myself into. If you've read Clark, you know that the secret is to just keep pulling people in and as that group grows it's not that hard. These folks are going to become your friends.

You know, when you start working together it's not like an awful thing, it's a lot of fun. It's not too awful, Clark, it's not too awful, never mind, it's just slightly awful. You get to go to the Alps. Come on, you get to canoe in Canada. Come on, you get to go to Rocky Mountain National Park. Oh yeah, you're already there.

Arlen's bunch can just put on their packs and walk outside of town. Man, you got a lot of places to go. Man, uh no, it sounds great really.

You'll be amazed at how fast those first few years- and even, like now for me, 19- have gone by, because you are having fun. Something new every week.

Did we cover how to handle youth leadership with a small young troop? Did we talk about that? That's something that a lot of people are dealing with. Just read what it says and put them in a room and say: form patrols and electus patrol leaders and don't worry about it too much, don't freak out about it. Just say, guys, this is how a troop runs. Troops have patrols, named patrol leaders, and eventually we'll get a senior patrol leader.

It's really not that hard. It's a scary sometimes for adults to kind of do things that way, but if you just read about what they're supposed to be doing, then just try it and it'll work.

So let me push back at you a little bit, Larry. So I'm going to take 8,, 10,, 15,, 11 year olds and I'm going to tell them: the next step is for you guys to make up patrols, and then I'm going to actually walk away from that, and it's not going to be chaotic and disorganized and nutty- absolutely will be, and not something you probably even want to witness. See, that's not the picture that a lot of people have in their minds about what this is supposed to look like.

Why is that good? Shouldn't we be much more organized?

Shouldn't we be a lot less chaotic? Shouldn't we be standing right there with the boys so they get it right? But sooner or later they have to get the experience, and they're not going to get the experience with you standing over them, they're just going to follow you.

So for them to get the experience, you have to step back and let them fail sometimes. Let them get the experience.

Well, if you do it, then it's not done right because they didn't do it at that point. If they do it, they carry that in the succeeding years and they learn.

Now you may have to occasionally clean up a mess, for whatever reason. Come back and say: guys, are you sure that's what you wanted to do?

You know, and like you said, Clark, that's a question. You ask them: guys, what did you think about that, well, okay.

Well, what do you think we ought to? You know, what do you think you ought to do about that? They'll look at you with blank stares, and that's the hardest part is to wait 60 seconds, because most of us, after 5 seconds, go.

Well then that's what you should have done, and that's the hard. For most people is the hardest thing is to wait a minute or two, and if after 5 minutes, they have no clue, sometimes you have to say: well, maybe I'll find you a place to go camping the first time, but you gotta find the rest of them.

So here's how we do that, but you have to let them do it, even the 11 year olds, and this will actually work. One of the questions that you had there, Arlen, was, if I did this again, I would do blank, and I think that what Larry just said is exactly what we would probably all agree: that in one measure or another, we would do better now, given a second chance at it, stepping back quicker. Yeah, do you think, Tom, I definitely would have- and, like Larry and you both, answer a question with a question to some extent and keep them thinking about what it is they were supposed to have been doing and what it is they're going to be doing later.

Just ask them questions now, Arlen. There are times- for instance, the first ax yard- no, I don't put 11 year olds inside the rope and say, okay, have an ax yard. Guys, wrong, sorry, that's not going to happen.

They can form patrols and SPLs, they can have meetings, but occasionally you're going to have to step in and take the guys that were elected leader or the whole troop, you know, right off the bat and say, guys, you know, this is how we're going to do an ax yard, okay, and you're going to tell them a couple of rules. You know there's a few things you're going to have to step in. This is kind of the way scouts do things: the meetings, setting up an agenda.

You know, give them the form, let them do it and mess up a couple of times. All that stuff that they can do. They can do and where you draw the line.

You know that's kind of up to you. You'll have to figure that out. What you were just saying falls under the safety safety issues. You don't want to do that and suffer the consequences. What if I try this. Okay.

What if we go ahead and we do this and the boys don't respond? They'll follow through on things.

Is that at that point, do I take over? Well, there's a fine line again. Scouts go camping.

You know, if all they want to do is meet for six months, that's not a scout troop. Say, guys, this is what an annual plan looks like.

Here's the blank calendar. Guys, I'm going to give you an hour and then see what they come up with and don't criticize it too much. They're going to go camping. You say, guys, there's stuff you got to get done.

Now you get Clark. Clark turns on. Deserve I have a tent. Deserve I have a sleeping bag.

How are you going to get there? You start asking those questions and see what happens.

And then, hopefully, all this planning brings in possible troop meeting activities, like what's the difference in the sleeping bag, all these different sleeping bags, or what's the difference in this? How do we dig a cat hole? All this stuff starts popping up.

And now you've got troop meeting ideas for the guys to plan on. So it's sort of feeding on itself, right, and nobody in the troop knows how to do that.

Have an adult come in for five minutes, show them how to tie a bowling or a square knot, and then the adult leaves and they teach each other. If they've all got scout books, they can figure most of that stuff out.

You know, as a Scoutmaster you're going to say: guys, you're being turned to page 80 in your scout book. It talks about your first camp out right there.

Okay, see what you can do, putting together a camp out plan for your patrol. I've got to go over and talk to those guys.

Bye, Arlen, I'm glad that you could join us and I hope we were able to help you out a little bit. I hope we didn't scare you too bad.

Now, this is great information. Thanks everybody. This is wonderful. Larry down of Air Florida, thanks again. Thanks for your advice. You're welcome.

Clark and Tom in Tennessee, have the trees started turning color down there? They're done, they're on the ground. The trees are on the ground. That's serious business. The leaves are on the ground. Thanks again, Tom.

Thanks for being with us. Oh, you're welcome. Hey, everybody, have a happy Thanksgiving