Scoutmaster Podcast 144

And now it's the old Scoutmaster

Last week's trivia question. Here's the answer. It's about the World Organization of the Scouting Movement And we asked: which country has the most scouts? okay, So the World Organization of the Scouting Movement. they conducted a census in 2010.. And there's 161 countries with a recognized national scouting organization. Which has the most? The answer was Indonesia, with 8,103,835 scouts. How about that? The US was second with 5,970,203 scouts. So Indonesia was the correct answer. And last week I asked you to post it on Facebook And Alan Green- who is no relation, by the way- was there with the first correct answer, and so he gets a copy of Mark Reyes, the Scoutmaster's other handbook. So we're going to try this again this week. It'll be a little bit different, So listen carefully, But the prize is going to be Cliff Jacobson's Camping's Top Secrets. What a great book. Now, I got this book a while back and I thought you know, after being camping for most of my life, that there weren't too many secrets. he was going to show me Cliff is smarter than me, That's right. About 250 pages of great camping information, techniques gained over a lifetime of being one of the world's premier canoe guides and camping authors. So that's a brand new copy of Cliff Jacobson's Camping's Top Secrets, Goes to our winner this week. and here's the question. And so this is how you win this week. You're going to go to scoutmastercgcom. You're going to look for the trivia link. It'll be right over in the right hand column. Follow that link, Send me your answer And next Monday I'm going to do a random draw out of all the correct answers and we'll declare a winner. The way to enter this week's question: go to scoutmastercgcom, Follow the trivia link and in next week's podcast I'll announce the winner. Here's the question. We all know Baden Powell held the first scout encampment on Brown Sea Island off the coast of Great Britain in 1907.. What was the name of the landowner who allowed scouts to use his property on Brown Sea Island for that first encampment? Brown Sea Island, 1907, Baden Powell first scout encampment. What was the name of the landowner who allowed the scouts to use his property? And I'll give you a hint: His last name has two As in it. When you find the answer, go to scoutmastercgcom, Click the trivia link and we'll do a random draw of all the correct answers and announce the winner. next week We'll get Camping's Top Secrets by Cliff Jacobs. Hey, this is podcast number 144.

Hey, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clark Greene. First, we're going to take a look in the virtual mailbag and we heard from Bryce this week. He says: I took your advice to heart. this weekend Our pack goes on a camp out. every year. I had about 10 Webelos on the camp out and we selected a hike in the morning and activity stations in the afternoon. Before we took the hike, I told the boys to pick a leader for the weekend. After they hashed it out amongst themselves, I had a boy lead out for the hike. Things went pretty well, although some of the boys didn't listen to their leader quite as well as I would have hoped. Once or twice I had to reinforce the decision the leader had made. It was pretty awesome watching him talk to the boys, get ideas and then choose an opinion that both appealed to him and the majority of the scouts. In the afternoon I had the leader divide the den into groups of five and we went around and did the stations, and after dinner I sat the boys down and we talked about how they thought the day had gone and what good reports and bad reports I had gotten back what I thought had gone well, and afterwards each boy got to talk about the things he enjoyed most and the things he liked least. Overall, I think the boys had fun. It gave them a good primer into what they'll be doing in their scouting future and a scout troop. Thanks for all the great advice you give out. That gave me the courage to break the mold and let the boys have their first taste of the patrol method. Thanks, Bryce, I'm happy to hear that. It sounds like he handled it really well with the Webelos Den. And just a slight caveat: a little bit of caution: In a Webelos Den the boys aren't ready to do youth leadership in the same wise that they are ready when they become boy scouts. But Bryce's example is a good example. You know they can choose that leader and the leader walks them around and he has a lot of oversight and input and reinforcement. So we need to keep this kind of thing age-appropriate. And then the reflection part is the most important thing, where we sit down at the end of the day and we talk and the scouts talk and everybody learns a little bit more about why we're doing what we're doing. Well, thanks for being in touch, Bryce, And I'm glad that you're getting some help from what we're putting out here. Mike, who is an assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 1434 in Potomac, Maryland, got in touch about our post with autism in scouting and he said, as I was driving my eighth grade son to the Troop meeting, he said that he does not like scouts when I take over. He said that as a patrol leader he knew that he had to call a scout about a menu for the next weekend. I kind of pastored him about it and he only did it after my prompting. It was clear to me that I had kind of taken over for him a little bit and that he did not like that. It was clear to me that I had to call for me to hear my son's perspective on my actions. First of all, Mike, thanks for being in touch and yeah, isn't that interesting. A couple of things that come to mind: That ride in the car and those discussions. boy, you're going to remember those for a long, long time and take advantage of them. Those minutes to and from a meeting or to and from a camp out- they're golden time. I'll tell you, We have a constant battle. We have as parents and as scout leaders: what do I do? How much influence do I have? We got a little feedback from a scout. Didn't appreciate it very much. That's not to say that you shouldn't do it, but the fact that they react to it this way helps us kind of temper the number of times we're going to remind them about something and then they'll learn one of two ways: whether we remind them or whether they just let it go and it doesn't work. So we can try both ways. It'll help. But once again, Mike, thanks for being in touch. Also heard from our friend, Walter Torres, about the email we talked about last week where we had an adult leader who was a bit of a problem, and as a part of the answer there we described the steps to remove a volunteer. So Walter said, as usual, that was most informative and direct. I'd like to make a suggestion. When you make comments like that, I say: rule, have the references on the blog to back up your statements. As usual, I always want more when your podcasts are over. So that's an excellent point and I do try to provide as many references as I can. Removing a volunteer from scouting is relatively rare and there are some things in scouting that we don't discuss in training very often and they're not really commonly understood because they are relatively rare. but just like somebody breaking a bone on a camping trip is relatively rare, and here we knock wood, Everybody else do the same thing. Just because that kind of event is relatively rare doesn't mean we don't need to know first aid. So the information I gave you last week about the job of the committee chair and the charter organization representative and the head of the charter organization you can find in several different places and you have to stitch it together to get the full picture of the services I'll send you to and these will all be linked on the post. that contains this podcast on scoutmastercgcom is a document called Commissioner, Administration of Unit Service and there's a little section in there that talks about the authority to deal with appointing and removing volunteers and it says this: who has the authority to remove a volunteer? A good rule of thumb is this: the person or group with the authority to remove and replace that volunteer. You'll find the functions of appointing volunteers more thoroughly explained in the troop committee guidebook, which is another good resource and that's linked at scoutmastercgcom. and you'll also find this in a document called the Chartered Organization Representative from the BSA and it's also linked on the website at the post that contains this podcast, and it says this: as the Chartered Organization Representative, you have the authority and responsibility to hire and fire- quote, unquote- the leadership of the unit. So there are some references, that kind of back up what we said last week. that was a very good point, Walter, and we do always try to provide as many references as we can when we're discussing procedural stuff like that or policy stuff like that. but a good reminder from you. So in this week's podcast, our third and final installment of a series about youth leader development- and then we have an email question answer and responsibilities- that kind of all weaves together there. How about that? So that ought to be enough for any podcast. so let's get started. shall we Scoutmaster's ship in seven minutes or less?

We started talking about youth leader development three podcasts ago and in the first installment we talked about the fact that youth develop best when they are active, when they're doing and not just watching or not just learning about things abstractly, but learning about it experientially- That our best scout youth leader training is an active process of discovery. In the second part we talked about the relationships and environment most conductive to development, and this time around, in this last installment, we're going to talk about specific practices that aid in developing leadership. How do you actually make this happen? So I've got a few pieces of advice for you. First, don't wait. If you're going to wait for your scouts to actually be leaders before they're trusted with real responsibility, you're going to be waiting a long time, and so will they. We are developing youth leaders, and youth leaders develop by what- Experiencing and doing. So we really can't wait until we think they're ready. We'll be developing with them, we'll be working with them. things will grow incrementally over time, but we have to start, And once we do start, we've got to back off and let them lead. We don't want to shout at them or do a whole lot of hand holding. we don't want to dog their tracks. we want to make our advice and mentoring brief, and it's important to realize it'll be more effective if we make fewer statements. this is how you should do this and ask a lot more questions: Well, why did you do it that way? That's the kind of thing that we're looking for. We're looking for an approach to this with other adults in advisory roles. it's a good idea, for instance, to agree that only one of the adult leaders is going to direct the senior patrol leader and that should be the Scoutmaster. so if anybody else, if any other adults, have concerns about what's going on, they need to go to the Scoutmaster or the other designated adult and decide how it will be addressed. I've seen a group of adults, a poor senior patrol leader, ragged on a weekend camping by being helpful, by getting lots of directions and advice and everything like that, naturally, and then he gets all this conflicting advice and everything. so we have to coordinate with other adult leaders and say: look, I'll be talking to the senior patrol leader, I'll be talking to the patrol leaders, I'll be doing what's needed there. if you have concerns, bring them to me first. don't give the other youth leaders instructions. we've discussed it so that we're coordinated. one of the other really practical things to do is to respond to initiative. respond to initiative from youth leaders rather than having youth leaders respond to your initiative. let them have their own ideas, let them instigate their own actions and then respond to those, rather than you having all the ideas. if you ask the right questions, you can give them ideas. what are you doing now? what's your job? what's your goal here? what's happening next? they'll put the pieces together slowly at first, but then they'll begin doing it on their own, even newly minted youth leaders. they will show initiative if we learn to look for it, look for the least little signs of it- an idea, an action that shows promise- and support it. here's some typical expressions of initiative. so if a patrol leader calls all his scouts and they show up at that week's meeting, that's a very big deal and you need to fall over yourself complimenting them about that, because they know that they took an action, they took an initiative and it bore results and that that was a good thing. so you need to connect those things together for them. let's say, the senior patrol leader leads a patrol leader's council session on their own for the first time. very big deal, very big deal. you need to congratulate your senior patrol leader about that. even if it was a giant mess, he did it. it was his job and he did it. he showed some initiative. when a patrol shops for food and packs it along and prepares it to go on a camping trip, you need to make sure that you're complimentary about it, that you pointed out, and that you celebrate the fact that they actually made it happen. now, that is something that is a fairly common occurrence. patrols make their own menu, they shop, they get the food, they take it on the trip, and it's so common I think that sometimes we forget what an important developmental step it is. we need to recognize that, we need to be on top of it, we need to respond to that initiative. a meeting or a camp out or some kind of activity goes by without any adult involvement in the program. we need to respond to that and we need to make sure that they know how well they did so. the things that seem routine to us but are new to youth leaders, these are things that we can look at as expressions of initiative and we ought to praise them and support them. and we don't only do that with the scout, but to our fellow adult volunteers and the scouts, fellow youth leaders, even if they don't get everything out of it that you think they ought to, even if it kind of falls on its face a little bit, even if they fail outright, we ought to recognize initiative every time and express appreciation and our admiration for that. that's a real big encouragement to scouts. now. we also have to understand that there will be, at times, a decided lack of initiative. it may take some real digging to find something, something, the least little bit of anything. in the absence of anything good to say, take the bad and contrast it with the worst. you know you may have missed that, but at least the worst didn't happen. you know you didn't bring a frying pan, but at least you brought the eggs. and if you can't even find anything there, if all else fails, remember that your youth leaders are volunteering to be scouts. they're showing up, they're walking through the door, even at the worst of times, that's something to celebrate. glad to see you, glad you're here. let's get to work. once we've learned to these little signals of initiative, we need to observe and reflect. it's important to reiterate that Scoutmasters are not bosses or commanders. we're supporting facilitators. okay, we recognize and respect the authority and the responsibility of our youth leaders. our chief activity is not actively advising, directing and mentoring every moment. our role is observing and then reflecting. observing and reflecting. put yourself in the role of a coach. stay on the sidelines and off the field, let the scouts play the game and then reflect on their performance. to ask afterwards. and how do you do that? well, you ask how things went, what they think went well, what they could improve in next time. honest and useful reflection with a group of scout age boys can maybe kind of difficult, but be patient, keep it to a few minutes at the most. boys are especially sensitive to criticism. even that kind of good natured ribbing that they do with each other and we sometimes get into it can be taken the wrong way. so watch out. the point of reflection is guiding youth leaders to discover what's happening, not to tell them what's happening, and I think that's important. let me repeat it: the point of reflecting is guiding youth leaders to discover what's happening, not for us to tell them what's happening. so it's not an after action report that we read. it's a discussion in which they describe and discover what's going on. and this is going to work really well if you learn to respect the discovery process. trial and error and reflection is going to show youth leaders what they don't know or don't understand. that kind of experience. as a powerful teacher, five minutes of trying things out beats five hours of us telling them how things work. developing youth leaders will understand, accept and apply training much more readily when they see a need for it, rather than being told that they need it. give them the environment to try, observe the action, guide a reflection and help them discover what they did well and what needs a little bit of work. if we understand how youth leaders develop, create and maintain the conditions that foster that development, understand and maintain a useful relationship between adult volunteers and youth leaders, and develop the skills of observation and reflection, we'll see our youth leaders grow in competence and effectiveness.

This is Bob Mazzucchi, scout executive of the Boy Scouts, and you're listening to my buddy, Clarke Green on the Scoutmaster Podcast and he is doing a fantastic job.

E-mail that is, folks, and here's an answer to one of your e-mails.

So this e-mail comes from Charles Sanders, assistant Scoutmaster with Troop 976 down in College Station, Texas. He says: I need clarification on Troop Bugler counting as a position of leadership for rank advancement. The 2010 handbook lists it for star and life ranks. whoever, I've seen that information online that contradicts this. someone in our troop even said when completing an Eagle app that a scout who had previously served in this position was not able to use it. fortunately, it also served in another qualifying position, so it was not a problem, trying to prevent any future difficulties. thanks for your advice. well, thank you for getting in touch, Charles. so far as the bugler position is concerned, it's listed in star and life but not an eagle. so it qualifies for star and life- and this is after I checked on scoutingorg and looked at the latest iteration of the rank requirements. but it is not included in the acceptable positions of responsibility for eagle. so we need to be careful when we're looking online because a lot of stuff can be out of date. I always go to scoutingorg and look for the most current information there and I always look in the guide to advancement. so whatever we see online is wrong if it doesn't coincide with the guide to advancement or the information at scoutingorg. let's get that clear. so the other interesting thing that comes out of this email that I think is a good thing to discuss for a moment is: there is no leadership requirement for any rank.

I'm waiting, okay, pick yourself up off the floor for a second. there's no leadership requirement for any rank other than a scout demonstrates leadership in the eagle project, the requirements for star life and eagle. when they talk about the tenured positions, call them positions of responsibility. they don't call them leadership positions. we have this common kind of lingua franca in scouting, where we use them interchangeably, but they're different, and this difference is explained very well in the guide to advancement. in are you ready? section 4, point 2, point 3, point 4, point 6: yes, the guide to advancement 2011- and I'm reading directly from it here- many suggest this requirement- and they're talking about the tenured position requirements for star life and eagle- should call for a position of leadership rather than simply of responsibility, and that's a common misunderstanding, isn't it? we have this common misunderstanding. alright, back to the guide. taking and accepting responsibility, however, is a key foundation for leadership. alright, I can understand that one cannot lead effectively without it, and it is responsibility, so you have to be responsible to be a leader, got it? the requirement, as written, recognizes the different personalities, talents and skill sets in all of us. some seem to be destined to be the leader of the group- quote, unquote. others provide quality support and strong examples behind the scenes. without this support, the leaders in charge have little chance for success. thus, the work of those support positions becomes part of the overall leadership effort, and I really like that statement. I think it's very smart. does a troop need a scribe? well, yeah, does he need a quarter master? absolutely a bugler. nice thing to have. if you got a boy you can play the bugle, great idea. historian, librarian chaplain's aid. these aren't intended to be up front leader of the group. quote unquote positions. these are positions of responsibility. these are support positions and a lot of us are very, very good at that and a lot of us are very good at being that kind of upfront leader. but there's two different skill sets there, there's two different personalities, two different talents in that, and that's why scouting doesn't just limit those positions to ones of leadership but expands it to positions of responsibility. now, after I said that there's no leadership requirements for any rank in scouting other than the fact that a scout doing his ego project demonstrates leadership, everybody probably threw up their hands and said: oh well, we don't do leadership development anymore in scouting. we don't have youth leadership positions, we don't. I guess we're not doing that anymore. well, that's, that's not true and you know it. the thing is is what we do is we recognize these different skill sets and personalities and talents and we recognize them all as being part of a good, well rounded personality, of being a contributing member to our community and our society, and we want to recognize that their development is an important aspect of scouting. so, developing responsibility, developing leadership: they go hand in hand. and when we're looking at that aspect of star life and eagle, we need to understand the definition of positions of responsibility and we need to apply that definition correctly and evaluating those requirements. so, Charles, I hope that helps. you know, the best way for all of us to avoid misunderstandings is to go to the guide: guide to advancement 2011. it's easy to find out there. it's in a pdf version. I'll link to it on the post that contains this podcast. everybody involved in scouting should read through that guide once, just once. you don't have to study it closely, just read through it once and then keep it around for reference. I go back to it all the time. I don't have it memorized, you know, and I've probably read it more than you have, but after reading it now, I kind of understand the different things that it addresses and I know where to go when I need the information. and I know that most troops, after reading the guide, are going to make some adjustments to the way they're administering advancement, and that's a good thing. that's something that we should be open to do is we get smarter. we make the way that we do things smarter right, alright? well, I would love to hear from you, and I'm going to tell you how to do that in just a second.