Scoutmaster Podcast 118

And now the old Scoutmaster. The only one I keep coming back to is go camping. It's intense. It's like the stupidest thing that I've heard. We do some really bad puns on the podcast that do horrible, horrible puns. But I don't even know if I would use that one.

It's like the stupidest one that I've heard. I will probably end up using it because it's that bad. It's really hard to come up with one every single week. It's like impossible.

Hey, oh well, We've heard that one before, but this is podcast 118..

Well, welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Let's take a look at the mailbag and there's an embarrassment of riches in the mailbag this week because not just one, but two new five star ratings on iTunes. The first one from Tom CD24 said. A friend told me about this podcast a few months back and I've listened to every podcast since. It's been a great resource as I've just transitioned from Cub Scouts up to Boy Scouts with my son. Great wealth of information. I look forward to each new episode.

Here's hoping there is an episode regarding the patrol leaders council in the near future. Our troop is young and has been adult led for several years and we'll be working towards a youth led troop. Keep up the great work. Hey Tom, there is a lot of information on scoutmastercgcom and several podcasts that deal with the patrol leaders council. My suggestion to people who are transitioning between that adult led to youth led concept are to look at a series of posts I have about that and make sure you take a look at the patrol method book.

That's a really great one And you know what. I need to replay the interview I had with the authors of that book sometime soon because it's a very important resource for you. I'll have some links to that at scoutmastercgcom under podcast 118.. The other five star review on iTunes from John Money. That's right, John Money. I found the podcast a few weeks ago and I'm hooked.

I was my son's den leader for five years and he just transitioned to a Boy Scout troop. I felt a little lost navigating this brave new world and this podcast is just what I needed. Segments are topical and upbeat, with no slant or negativity. Give me a chance, Guys. Come on. They're filled with pearls of wisdom and keep giving me new things to think about.

The website is also a wealth of information and great resource. Keep them coming. I'm also a district training chair and I will add this to my list of useful web resources I hand out at training. Thanks, John. Thanks for the kind words. Mike Stock, who is an assistant scoutmaster at troop 620 in Liverpool, New York, wrote in and said: Clark, I just wanted to shoot you a quick note to thank you for all the effort you put into the podcast and the blog.

As a fairly new scout leader, I've found your information to be current, insightful and well positioned. Sometimes your topics are so timely it seems as if you're sitting in our meetings. The knowledge that you've shared has been instrumental in us transitioning back to being a fully boy led troop. After a few bumps, the boys have finally taken the reins and are running their troop and patrols as Baden Powell intended. I'm sure I speak for many adult leaders when I say there are hundreds, if not thousands, of us who are disciples- Oh my goodness- who listened to your words of wisdom on a weekly basis, Yet we never take the time to say thank you.

So, on behalf of all the quiet majority, thank you for all that you do. Well. Thank you, Mike. That is a very kind of view, very kind words. I don't know if we're into thousands, yet I know we're into hundreds, I don't know if we're into thousands yet- and no disciples please. Anyway, in this podcast and Scoutmaster ship, in seven minutes or less, we're going to talk about starting a brand new scout troop.

Wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't that be an exciting thing to do- Start a whole new scout troop and help boys discover scouting? That would be an exciting undertaking.

And then we're going to have an interview with Craig Cohen, and Craig is a camp program director. What's a camp program director?

Well, you're going to find out a little bit about that. I recorded this interview with him last summer and I was interested in how scout leaders could help the program staff make the experience an optimal one for the scouts that they bring to camp with them.

I think it's May, It's time to start thinking about camp, and hopefully you'll find the information in that interview useful.

Well, that's all for this podcast. I think that's plenty.

So let's get started. Shall we Scoutmaster ship in seven minutes or less.

Wouldn't it be great to start a brand new scout troop, just to begin with a group of boys and get them interested in scouting and develop that over time? If there's any possibility that you can make that happen. I'm going to suggest a plan to you. I don't know about you, but when I was 11, if somebody came up to me in a scout uniform and showed me a scout handbook and started talking about developing my character, I would be looking for the nearest exit. Honestly, I would have been attracted to the whole idea. It would have been interesting.

But I know that I would have resisted the idea of wearing a uniform and I would have had the impression of scouting in my mind would have been boys in uniforms going to meetings and listening to bossy Scoutmasters. That's the general impression that's out there.

So why do boys become scouts? Wait for it now. Wait for it. Boys become scouts to do the things that scouts do right And to hang out with their friends. That probably, hanging out with your friends, is the more important of the two when they get started. But that's why boys become scouts.

Those two reasons. It's only a much more than that is going to be a bit of an uphill battle.

So I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time. I wouldn't spend any time talking to them about you know the mechanics of scouting and all that stuff. I would let them discover it for themselves.

So you're going to set up a trip, a camping trip, and you're going to make sure that the right age boys have invitations for this. You're going to have one or two other adults who are going to be your confederates in this enterprise and who are possible adult leaders, And again, you want to temper your approach with them.

Say, well, let's just go out camping and see how this works. I know my way around this type of thing And if you guys will come with me or I will take the lead and all they ask is that you follow my lead and do what I do, Then invite the boys.

You know we're just going to go out camping overnight on a Saturday and a couple of weeks And you know we only have room for 12 guys and the spots are filling up fast. So if you want to go, let me know right now And here's what you bring and everything like that, And here's where we're going to be. And make sure you have your mom or your dad.

Give me a call so I can talk to them and let them know what's going on. Then, you know, start on a Saturday morning somewhere close to home. It doesn't have to be a fantastic place.

You know any kind of campground, any place. You can go and set up a couple of tents And then, once the boys get there, make their first task: building a fire and cooking lunch. Nothing too involved, Something really simple hot dogs or something like that.

And you know, let them take it as long as it takes. It's going to take them a long time to build a fire.

That would be the first question. Anybody know how to build a fire? Oh yeah, I do.

Well, let them go after it for a while. And, guys, would you like a little bit of help there, or do you need some help with this?

And you know they'll get the idea after a while that if they ask for help, you'll help them find some answers. But let them play, Let them have at it. Then you set up the tents in the afternoon. Don't teach them how to set up tents, Don't teach them anything. Just ask questions every once in a while. Maybe you play a couple of games.

You'll have to teach them how to play the games, maybe. Or if somebody else, one of the boys knows a game you know, And then after a bit, suggest that you're hungry.

Are you guys hungry? Let's cook some dinner. Something like foil packets is great fun. We got to build the fire up again. It's going to take hours, But that's what boys want to do, That's why they're there.

So they have this kind of exciting and simple dinner and everybody gravitates around the campfire And you ask for their attention for a minute and you tell them a couple of stories and things like that And maybe start talking about the next camping trip. Well, I'm having a great time.

Would you guys like to go camping again? Yeah, that would be kind of fun.

Okay, what would you like to do? And let them get to talking about it.

Then, as time goes by, you know, look at the watch and say, well, fellas, it's getting to be about 10.30. Maybe it's time to head off to bed. Then, before everyone leaves the next morning, ask them if they really meant what they said last night. You really want to go camping again sometime, Yeah, yeah.

Well, let's have a meeting to talk about it And we'll see if we can plan a camp out, Have the meeting place set up and the time set up and then get them there And, when they do, start asking them questions about what they'd like to do on their next camping trip And maybe what they could have done better on the last one. Does anybody know, guys, does anybody know of a book or anything that could help us with our camping skills?

And have a scout handbook nearby And once you've shown that to them, say, well, look, I've got to go make a phone call for a few minutes here. Why don't you guys look at this book? Oh, I have a couple spare copies. Look at the book and see if you can find anything else out that might help us with our next camping trip.

Go away for 20 minutes or so, Come back and ask them if they found anything, Ask them some questions, Ask if they can show it to you, And before too long. That might not be at that meeting, It might not be at the next camping trip, But if you keep this up, before too long they're going to know about uniforms and what about these things called ranks in here.

What's that all about? So what I'm suggesting is that, if you can manage to do this, you're allowing boys to discover scouting for themselves. They're doing something that they were really excited about doing.

They're going out into the woods setting up a tent, camping, building a fire, cooking food- What could be better? And then you know they will begin to discover it for themselves.

This all sounds really sneaky, doesn't it? But really it's not okay. What we're doing is we're letting them find out for themselves what this is all about. It's really important, especially if they have a negative impression of scouting.

So they get to go out, They get to have all this fun, And then they're going to understand that the other parts of scouting may be- hey, you know, that might be as much fun. That might be important to our going camping and things like that. It's just an idea, But I would love to hear from somebody who gives it a try. Naturally, before you do any of this, you're going to have all of the administrative things in place, because you're going to figure out where the troop will be chartered and you're going to have an agreement with them. You're going to talk to a district executive, You're going to get things set up And you're going to make sure that your adult leaders are registered and trained in youth protection.

Now that all seems very complicated, But if you look at it, it wouldn't be that complex to do. Take a little bit of setting up, but you do want to make sure that you have all of those pieces in place before you launch this idea. Many of our country's well-known citizens are former Boy Scouts.

Music- Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared, Music. We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges- Music.

So today I'm talking with Craig Cohen. Craig works as the program director at camp, and so I'm just going to talk to Craig for a little while here and see if we can figure out what a program director does and what happens when you show up at camp with your scout troop, and how you can best use that time and work with a camp staff.

So, Craig, this is how many years on staff for you? This is my 13th year on staff, So let's get an idea. You started out in what position.

I started off as a 14-year-old CIT and about halfway through that summer they were a little short-handed in the nature lodge, so they asked me to come on down and stay for the rest of the summer and then I wound up staying there until, I guess, 2004,. So that was about seven years.

And then I got moved up to commissioner for a year, left for real life for a summer, came back as headquarters director, then commissioner again for two years and this is now my second year as program director. So a CIT is a counselor in training, right, Yes, Okay, And why?

When you were 14, if you can remember why, why was that of interest to you? I joined scouts late. I was actually a 13-year-old trailblazer- Oh, no, kidding, Yeah, which is our first-year camper thing down here- and the guy who I had as a trailblazer instructor was just really really awesome and kind of knew that I was an older guy going through the program and I had a couple guys in the troop on staff and they just kind of talked me into it.

And if it wasn't for those things, it wasn't something that I was outrightly interested in, but just kind of things got me here, Yeah, and so 13,, that's seventh or eighth grade. That was seventh grade, Okay.

And then through high school you came back and worked during the summer and everything. What did that do for you? A lot. I was definitely a shy kid and just helped me come out of my shell a little bit.

And I think the more important part of it is it got me exposed to the nature program and I kind of fell in love with being outside and teaching geology. Merit badge at a big influence because I actually became a geologist, which was kind of the largest influence.

And so you go through your years of high school, you graduate from high school, you go to college. Did you go to college with the idea that you were going to be a geologist? No, I actually went in related.

I went in for meteorology at the same time taught geology for a really really long time, so kind of branched off into that direction and then wound up going back after the geology and just got the teaching certificate because I knew I liked doing that for me down here. And so now you're a teacher and that leaves you your summers so that you're able to come down and work at camp. It does, which is just kind of a happy coincidence. Yeah, it wasn't like a master plan, No, it was not a master plan, It just kind of worked out that way.

So I'm a Scoutmaster and I come down here with my scouts. I've got a little bit more of an in or a background than a lot of people do, because I've been here, I served on staff, I've been doing it for a number of years And what I'm curious about- and I think what everybody else is curious about- is the first couple of times that, as an adult, we go and participate in a summer program, It can be a little stressful, and mostly because we just really don't know what to expect and we don't know what happens.

How do you handle that as a program director? What are you doing?

What are you looking for? What makes for a really good relationship between you and scout leaders that enables their scouts to experience camp to get the most they can out of being here for a week?

Well, I think you said the answer in the question of reminding or just remembering that the week is here for the scouts. The adults are here for supervision of the scouts, but they're at the week, and we set up the program with the scouts in mind, not the adult leaders.

So keeping that, then, in the back of your head of make sure that the scouts are organized enough to get to the activities we're providing is really the key thing. And even letting the boy leadership really step up to the plate and helping them out, instead of you taking control and speaking directly to the young kids, let the senior patrol leader do that and allow them to have the full camp experience without being too hands-on with the scouts.

You know, you basically just told me how to spend my entire week and that doesn't need a whole lot of elaboration, really. So what don't I do?

What is like a common mistake? That just makes things more difficult. Trying to schedule everything out hour by hour before you even come to camp makes things very, very difficult. We are very open. If a staff member of mine comes. Craig, I have a great idea.

I want to run it this Tuesday. I'm going to let them do that and having troops already set in such a schedule that then they can't experience this really, really great idea is just going to limit the amount of fun that they can have down a camp and limit the things that they can experience while they're down a camp. Most of the program is outside. Oh yeah, it's absolutely outside.

So whatever happens with weather or anything, you've got to adjust to that too. Like I said just this week, we had Rain on Monday Night, which is a big camp-wide activity game for us, and we had to move that inside the last 10 minutes of starting the game and trying to organize all that, and the Scout seemed to have a really good time, but we had a couple troops that didn't show up because it was raining and didn't want to experience that, and those troops missed out on this activity.

The answer is: don't plan so much that you're inflexible or you're going to be disappointed if things change. There are things that we have scheduled way in advance that don't change.

So if our enter troop competitions like the Rifle Shoot or Archery Shoot or Track Meet, by all means figure out when those are to make sure your guys can participate, but don't schedule things so strictly that you limit yourself to what you can participate in. What other things would you say?

Don't do that or don't step that way or make? I think one of the things that I see the most is a lot of Scoutmasters and adult leaders come down to camp, are so used to dealing with other adults that they forget that some of the people teaching merit badges are 15, 16 years old, and while I can tell you that those counselors aren't going to be perfect because they're 15 and 16 years old, they are in that position for a reason: they're working in the nature lodge, they're teaching oceanography because they like the badge that allows them to teach it.

So while they might not have a PhD in the subject, they are knowledgeable in that area. So giving them the benefit of the doubt instead of kind of jumping in and trying to take charge of something just because it's not an adult doing it is something else that I think Scoutmasters should try to stay away from a little bit.

Is it a good idea for me to go around and sit in on the merit badge sessions and stuff like that? Sitting in for a whole section, you know, drive some counselors makes them a little bit nervous and they're not able to engage as much with the Scouts.

But just a quick pop in, listen for five minutes, see what your Scouts are learning and move on to the next merit badge so you have a better idea of what's going on everywhere in camp, something that I would probably recommend a little bit more than sitting in for a whole section in one merit badge. So let's say- and I'm doing what you suggest- I'm looking in for a couple minutes here just out of curiosity and things like that, or just in my general day to day at camp, and I sense that there's a problem that you know a staff member maybe isn't living up to what you're expecting of them, or I hear a little piece of instruction and I'm kind of questioning it or something like that.

What do I do there? If it's something that you're not quite sure whether or not the staff member was saying was accurate, I would just go up to them after the merit badge and try and find them, just real briefly, and say: are you sure that's right, and I've been doing it this way for a while, or I understood it is that, and just have a conversation with them. The more abrupt you are, the worse. It goes more often. But if it really is a concern, you can go to the department head or come up to me or to the program director in your camp. I know we had a concern about how a requirement was being fulfilled for a camping merit badge and it was as simple as somebody coming up to me and us looking through the requirement booked together and figuring it out.

So a lot of times it's just a miscommunication or because you're only there for one day and going back to the complete opposite of what I just said a second ago: being there for just one day, you do miss some of those other things that get done. So understanding that the merit badge is a week long process and not just that short time that you might have been in the merit badge.

So here I am. When I come down to camp I'm working with my scouts and everything, but at the same time I kind of want to contribute to what's going on.

I maybe want to contribute to camp, you know, help out with things or something like that. What are my options there?

What can I do? A great option is the first year camper program. Getting involved and letting your young scouts know that your skills are also there. And just seeing what they're doing in camp, seeing what they're learning at the first age, can help you better understand what might be going on in their heads through the next seven, eight years that they're in scouting.

So doing that is a great idea. Working through that program, because they also get around to doing pretty much everywhere in camp. They'll go up to the cope course, the rifle range, visit, every part in camp.

So working with that program might be a good idea. Also, I know we have a list of service projects that adult leaders say, hey, we're looking to do something.

Is there anything we can do? And if it happens that one of them is a big woodworker, we might ask them to make a new sign for somewhere and a lot of times just by walking around camp scoutmasters get an idea of.

Do you know what that looks like- something I can tackle all by myself, and let's see what I can do. Let's talk a little bit specifically about the staff experience.

I think we got a pretty good idea of what that was like when you were younger. What are your direct responsibilities right now?

I mean, we know, you know basically somebody comes to camp and is introduced to the program director. What does that guy do? Most of the stuff that I do happen during staff week, before any of the scoutmasters actually or any of the scouts got into camp at all.

So during any given week the program director is there to, in a way, just put out fires, like if there are questions about something. To make sure that you're on top of it, because I think I have and I think most program directors have a very good understanding of what's going on inside the camp at any given time in any program area. But the thing that I do probably most directly is organize the dining hall program, making sure messages get out, making sure that the songs get sung and the camp-wide activities.

We have three camp-wide games each week and I'm the one that puts together those sheets to make sure the staff knows what's going on for each of those. And I also teach a merit badge each morning. I teach a communications merit badge, yeah.

So in addition to that, you kind of like the chief morale officer- yeah, absolutely, we just had a staff movie night that we'll go down and we'll watch a movie down there. We did a wing bowl one night. We do little games that- a wing bowl, yeah, like who can eat the most chicken wings, like that sort of thing.

So just kind of fun activities that I mean. Yeah, we all work together, but it's work, and when we're not working in the evening or we have some time off doing those activities because we're, I mean, we live and work here.

So making sure we have both sides of that is very important. What percentage of the staff is under the age of 18?

Or we have over 50% over the age of 20. I think the dynamic of having younger guys down here working on staff, I think that improves the experience for the scouts, for the scouts, absolutely.

I'm 27 years old and I do not pretend to understand what an 11 year old likes to do, so having guys that are closer in age to them helps me provide a better program, scheduling wise and practicality wise. What works in camp and then getting those younger guys to add that energy level to it and add the theming aspects of it with some of the jokes and concepts that are maybe more age appropriate for the scouts, definitely helps the experience for the scouts tremendously. I mean your personal experiences was that you were inspired by other staff members. Oh yeah, absolutely. One of those guys were over the age of 18. When I was there, I saw a guy that was two years older than me, that knew every single knot plus a whole bunch and knew this and that about outdoors and going camping and that just made me want to stick with it.

I really appreciate you spending a little time with me. I think that's helpful and people get to understand a little bit more what to expect and a little bit more about what a program director does when you head down to camp. Yep, you're very welcome. Thank you.