Scoutmaster Podcast 115

And now it's the old Scoutmaster. Here's a familiar old proverb, one that I'm sure you've heard many times: give a man a fish and you fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you fed him for a lifetime. Yep, never a truer word with spoken. But there's some variance to that proverb.

Did you know that Teach a man to fish and you can sell him a lot of fishing equipment? Teach a man to fish, you fed him for a lifetime, unless, of course, he doesn't like sushi. Then you need to teach him how to cook. Teach a man to fish and you fed him for a lifetime.

Now, teach a man to sell fish and he can afford to eat steak. Give him a man a fish and you fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you lose a steady customer. And, of course, we all know you can lead a horse to water, but you can't teach him how to fish.

And, of course, if you feed a fish, a man, well, there you got a blockbuster, All right then. Well, this is podcast number 115..

And now, ladies and gentlemen, a multifaceted man of many spigots, a human soup bean, and they give him on his own time. Hey, welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Let's take a look in the old mailbag, shall we? This week we heard from Ann Olson- and Ann is up there in the Minneapolis area- And she said: I took a campsite selection course today at our University of Scouting from Cliff Jacobson. I mentioned to him that I had heard him on your podcast number 114, and he was pleasantly surprised And it was a great class.

Well, thanks very much, Ann. I'm glad you got to go and hear Cliff. I have not had the pleasure personally, but if you ever have the chance to go hear Cliff speak, definitely do that. Cliff Jacobson is a premier outdoor author and a canoe fanatic. Cliff knows more, has forgotten more about canoes than any of us have ever known, Got some great books and things out there too. We interviewed Cliff almost a year ago, maybe even a year and a half ago, And during the interview I'd ask him if he'd do a little promo for me And we played occasionally on the podcast And that's what Ann heard last week And I'm glad Cliff was presently surprised.

Over at iTunes, two guy left us a five star rating. Well, thank you very much, sir, He said Clark, just a quick thank you. I've recommended this podcast to our incoming Scoutmaster. Keep up the good work. I can't thank you enough.

Well, thank you, And you can leave a comment or a review or a rating over at iTunes. You certainly can. Derek Morton won't do that.

You know why? Because Derek listens to the zoom. Yes, Derek Morton says he is an avid zoom listener.

So now I've heard from both of you guys And it's good to have the whole group tuning in. He says really good stuff. I have a one hour drive to and from work every day And I enjoy listening to your podcast. Thanks, You need to update the archive page. That's right, I do, Derek, And thanks for pointing that out.

Sometimes, sometimes, I just forget, And we were five or six podcasts show shy on the archive page. And what are we talking about?

Well, go to scoutmastercgcom. I'll wait. OK, good, You're there. Now. If you look at the menu right there, the menu bar right there under scoutmastercgcom, over to the left, and you click on podcast, you'll see that you get a link to the archive page. Click on that.

No, the archive page link. Click on that.

There you go, And there they are all 114- soon to be 115- podcasts right there for your listening pleasure, Even if you have a zoom. Michael Asbell from Nashville Troop 17 wrote in to say I love your website and I try hard to keep up with all your posts. I'm usually don't listen to the podcast, but I feel like I'm missing something, Michael. You're missing half your life.

We have so much fun on the podcast and you just got mentioned on one and maybe you won't even find out. Oh my.

So in this week's podcast, in just a moment, we're going to have scoutmastership, in seven minutes or less, And we're going to talk about the pivot point, which was also the subject of a blog post this week, But I have some ideas about it that I'd like to discuss with you for a moment, If I may. Thank you very much.

And then we're going to go to a email question that we received this week as well And that's going to fill up this entire podcast, believe it or not. So we had best get started, shall we?

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less. There's lots of different styles of leadership out there, And I'm going to oversimplify things And I'm going to take a moment and look at two different styles of leadership, two different troops: One is led by adults and one is led by scouts.

Now, what's the difference between those two? Is there any just like basic difference?

There's lots of differences between them, but why is one led by adults and one led by scouts? I'm going to offer you this again, at the risk of oversimplifying things.

The answer is focus. I think that most troops run by adults are focused on results and troops run by scouts are focused on process.

I accept that between the two extremes of fully adult and fully youth led, there got to be a lot of shades of gray, but I think the basic conclusion of focus holds up. Now, as I've said many times, adults are more experienced and more capable of producing results, of posting good numbers. I'd readily admit that if you want reliable results and good numbers, it's best to have the adults lead things. In a lot of ways. If we're focused on the process of scouting, we're going to be more or less youth led.

Well, what's that process? It's that set of opportunities and experiences that shape the live and characters of scouts, without paying a whole lot of attention to the results.

Now, if we focus on that process, we will see both the good results and we will also be youth led, And the good results come from the youth leadership. The good results come from the fact that boys are going through the process of leading themselves. The pivot point between the two approaches to scouting is whether or not we understand and value the process. Understanding and valuing results is easy.

I mean, you know, hey, we had this many guys advance, we had this many guys go camping. We You know, we do requirements, we earn badges, we go camping, we rack up nights camping and we're in good shape. We recruit scouts and we grow a number. Hey, that's easy to understand. Understanding and valuing the process behind scouting. The process is quite a bit more subtle.

When scouts set their own course, when they learn to work together to make things happen, they're participating in the process of scouting. The results of the process aren't easy to measure.

We can't express them numerically And it takes kind of a trained or conditioned eye to be able to detect them. So if this is right, if the difference between youth lead and adult lead is really a matter of focus, here's my challenge for you.

I want you to start to focus on the process of how things are being done rather than just the results. Once again, adults are more talented and experienced. They'll always be able to get better results than scouts in many ways.

How much of your troop is totally in the hands of your scouts? Now, Baden Powell said something along the lines of: you know, the patrol method and this youth leadership thing isn't there just to make life easy on the scout leaders, you know, but it does. Here's an example.

I had an email from somebody this week who gave me, you know, a list of four or five different difficulties they were have in being the outings coordinator- whatever it's called- in their in their troop, And this was a list of difficulties that they were having with parents who offered to drive scouts to and from outings. You know, parents wanted to kind of cherry pick which scouts they got to have in their car And some parents only wanted to drive their son because they were going to be staying the weekend. They only wanted to drive their son to the outing.

Some parents kind of asserted their own schedule over the whole thing, saying well, we have to leave on Saturday morning, And that stranded some boys who didn't have. You know what I'm talking about. It's kind of a pain, that logistical piece of getting people back and forth and everything.

And so this fellow wrote in and he asked my advice on it And you know what I didn't really have. I didn't have any advice for him because I got to tell you something: It's been years and years and years since I had any idea of who was driving who, or indeed any adult had much of an idea about who was driving who. My part of the whole transportation process, the adult role of the whole transportation process, is basically: I asked the senior patrol leader the Monday before we're going somewhere if he has a trans, if he's assured himself that all his patrol leaders have a transportation plan.

Here's what I want to point out. So, given this idea of we need so many seats to get so many boys back and forth to a camp out, you know an adult can manage that And they can manage that pretty easily.

Now they're going to have some difficulties, as was reflected in this email, But they can do it. And if the result that you're looking for is to get boys to the camp out, have adults do it. The other way to look at this is that if youth leaders go through this process, they're benefiting and they are also fulfilling this kind of practical thing that needs to happen, But they're benefiting from this. They have to talk to adults. That's kind of scary for a lot of patrol leaders and a lot of senior patrol leaders. They have to talk to these adults and they have to line up rides and they have to tell them- the adults- what to do.

But it's a great process for them to go through. They really grow and learn from just going through that process.

What do they grow and learn about? Well, you know what? It's very, very difficult to quantify And it's a real good example of what I've been talking about.

You know what's the focus. If our focus is on results- adults- If our focus is on process- youth- And you know, I know that some of you are going to question my sanity in trusting something like this to youth, But I got to tell you it's been 15 years- Easy at least, since I've really understood or known who's going to drive, who You know I get to.

We meet at a church And so we leave, usually on troop outings, from the church And I get there on a Friday and I watch what happens. My senior patrol leader is in charge and his scribe has the roster And he's working with patrol leaders and they're getting gear into cars and things like that And sometimes it's long and painful and it's in fits and starts, But those scouts are going through this process And the process is more important than the immediate result.

So well, that's just some food for thought. I hope it makes sense And I would like to hear what you think about it.

So please do be in touch And you'll find out how to do that at the end of the podcast, Everybody roll. We packed up our canoe And now we're flying across the lake. We're going camping, We're going camping. Oh yeah, We're going camping, We're going camping. This is Bob Mazzucchi, scout executive of the Boy Scouts, And you're listening to my buddy, Clarke Green, on the Scoutmaster podcast And he is doing a fantastic job. Ride me a ladder, send it by name Email.

That is, folks.

And here's an answer to one of your emails. Barney wrote in and he said this: I'm a relatively new Scoutmaster.

How does the concept of a boy led troop work with adding new youth members with various levels of ADD and autism? I'm thinking especially of the challenges, disruption and patrol operations that can occur when boys who have special needs.

Do other adult leaders find that it's best to mainstream these boys into patrols? I appreciate your blog very much. Thanks, Barney. Thanks for being in touch And congratulations on being a Scoutmaster. It's a great ride. You're going to love it.

Many of my scouts over the years have had some sort of learning difference or have been identified having various levels of autism. I've got to tell you we don't really end up taking much notice of it because it's never really been much of an issue. One of the things I have found is that- quote unquote- normal boys- I understand there's no such thing, but boys who don't have this identification are much more accepting and tolerant of things than I was when I was their age. It really doesn't seem to be all that big a deal to them.

ADHD, you know the whole alphabet thing, and autism and Downs syndrome and things like that. They just seem to take it in stride.

When I was a boy we could be pretty cruel to anyone who didn't think and act like we did, but my scouts are impressively kind and considerate of these differences. Now parents will usually tell me if they have any special concerns for their sons or if they have been identified with some kind of clinical difference.

I ask if there are specific behavior problems that we should watch for, activities or environments that may trigger difficulties for them, and if the boys have ever been a danger to himself or others, If there are particular areas for concern, well, I'll discuss that with the parent and then I will also discuss it with my youth leadership, But that's a pretty rare occurrence. To tell you the truth, I feel pretty strongly that we're always best off when a boy defines his journey through scouting for himself, And I've had only one or two scouts out of a few hundred that needed any level of real special consideration. Most boys, they just seem to thrive in an accepting troop and patrol with little or no modifications to what happens. Principally, the big challenge in this has usually been just working with my adult leaders and, very occasionally, the parents of one of the scouts. The scouts, like I said, I still find it remarkable, but they just seem to take it all in stride and make no big deal over it.

Each boy is an individual and each identification or clinical diagnosis that a boy has is individual, And so we have to pay very close attention to that. Some of these differences in the way that they process the world do create behavior problems that could be really disruptive and difficult and could be very off-putting for other scouts And we need to know that Some of these conditions will also create behavior problems where they could be a danger to themselves or others. But this is really pretty extraordinarily rare.

I want to note that but I don't feel it would be responsible for me just to say, hey, you know, it's no big deal. Everybody goes into the patrol and we see what happens next. You do have to be responsible about this and you do have to understand exactly what the clinical identification is.

But kind of rule of thumb has been that if a boy is in school and he is right there doing the same thing that everybody else is doing, he fits in with scouts really well And a lot of times you know what, even if they are in special classes or have special considerations in school. All of these clinical determinations are made in an academic setting and they deal with academic learning And we don't do academics in scouting.

So it's not that big a deal. I hope that you find that helpful.

I certainly don't want to be dismissive of the seriousness or the difficulty that a lot of boys do encounter with these things, But at the same time I think that scouting can be a little oasis of calm and good for them And they can feel a little less singled out and a little more quote-unquote normal. I don't know what normal is. I'm still trying to find out after 52 years. And if you're not familiar with the way that these things are diagnosed or the different measures that are taken to help boys get through them, it's a good idea to do a little bit of reading And you'll find that boys in scouting, no matter what their identification, will always benefit from the time that they spend with their friends, the time they spend outside, And you'll have to make minimal adjustments for these different clinical diagnoses.