Scoutmaster Podcast 108

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very special edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast. Get your mounting hat, prepare for a trip to the Great White North. This is a special edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast.

And now for you, Scoutmaster,

Have you been over and visited us? On Google Plus, There's an exclusive circle, the Scoutmaster CG circle, over on Google Plus. That's right. All kinds of great stuff happens over there. Here's something that was on there the other day: Sean Cleary, who is also a podcaster- he has the True North podcast and the True North blog- and a Scoutmaster, a great guy. He asked this question.

He wanted you to fill in the blank. He said: you might be a Scouter if.

And then Harry Schneider, who's going to be a guest a little later on in this podcast, who's from up in Canada. Harry answered: you might be a Scouter if you pause before you throw away dryer lint.

That's when you know you're one of us. When you're in the laundry room and you clean out the vent of the dryer thing, you've got a big thing of dryer lint there and you've got wind in it. Wind than I need it. This podcast, this is Clarke Green, That's right. This podcast is going to be dedicated to our friends up in the Great White North, The Scouters who are volunteering for Scouts Canada up there. Yeah, a lot of them listen in apparently and read the blog.

I hear from people in Canada on a fairly regular basis, And so we corralled a bunch of them together over the phone this past week. We had a nice discussion, talked a little bit about how their program works and things like that.

I think you'll find it very interesting. I know I did. I really enjoyed speaking with them.

I'm going to tell you a little bit about the trips that our troop takes up to Canada every summer as well, But before we go there, let's take a look in the mailbag. We heard from our old buddy, Will Hensman. Thanks for getting in touch, Will. He says thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom with us in your blogs, comments and podcasts Been truly inspirational for me and keeps my scouting compass pointed in the right direction. It's also good for a laugh or two along the way.

Well, we hope so. We hope so, But thank you so much for the kind words, Will. That means a lot. Kelly Devando wrote in to say thanks for doing what you do. Your articles are extremely inspirational and helpful to me.

Well, thanks for listening in, Kelly, And again, thanks for the kind words. Ray Britton is the Scoutmaster of troop 42 in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, And Ray writes in. He says thanks for more excellent advice about father and son time in scouting. We talked a little bit about that on podcast 107, our last podcast.

He said: like the fellow who wrote to you, I think lots of dads have the expectation of spending time with their son. I'll tell you that my son turned 18 last week and is an Eagle Scout.

Well, congratulations, Ray, on both counts. While I tried to keep respectful distance while we were in scouting together, I do have a picture collage of the two of us on top of Mount Phillips at Fillmont, on the bow of a sailboat at sea base and overlooking the frozen lake during winter, camping up at northern tier.

Each time I look at these photos I'm reminded of the times during those trips and during many smaller ones, when my son would stop by to talk to me about something or other while we were on the trip. As he prepares to leave for college, those are some of the best times we have shared during his teenage years.

I'm looking forward to the same experience with his 12-year-old brother And I would just add to your comments that remember dads and sons and other family members can always venture off into the wild on their own, as well as going scouting. You're right, Ray, They certainly can do that, And that time that we spend in scouting with our sons, it's a very precious time, One that we will all remember. Robert Macklemore from Maidens, Virginia, writes in and says: Greetings, Clark, I really enjoy your podcasts on scoutmastercgcom.

I think guys like you are fulfilling the role of Green Bar Bill for our millennium, due to all the blogs and the podcasting that's out there- the communication media of our century. Thanks for your help to me and your service to scouting.

Well, thank you so much, Robert. You know I'm no Green Bar Bill- I could tell you that- But I really appreciate the kind words and the sound of it, And there's a lot of guys out there working at blogs and who have podcasts and things, and we all get to be part of the mix of what's happening right now.

So thanks for your kind words once again. And this one comes from Gary Klotz And he says I'm the scoutmaster of a new troop in Orland Park, Illinois. Troop 383, formed in late December of 2010, is only the second troop in this village and township of nearly 100,000..

I started the new troops so boys would have a local option for a second troop. Thanks for the website, the podcast and everything else is all very helpful. I've subscribed to your podcast and have recommended them to other leaders in our troop, but the only the most recent ones are available on iTunes.

Are the older podcasts available for download? Well, yes, they are, Jerry, And thank you very much for getting in touch. Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad that we're helping you out And congratulations on starting a new troop. That's a very big deal. The older podcasts are available.

Go to scoutingmastercdcom. Look on the menu there You'll see podcasts And when you click on podcasts you'll see a link to the podcast archive And right there you can download every one of the past 107 podcasts. If you must- No, you're certainly you know- you can go right in there and you can have access to all of them. Terry Dutton is with Troop 16 in Oak Park, Illinois, and Terry wrote in to say this. I just happened upon your podcast and I really appreciate the time you put into this. I'm an assistant Scoutmaster and an established troop and I'm looking for ways to continually improve our adult leadership In podcast 107,.

You've motivated me to challenge myself in the way that I work with our youth leadership. Thanks very much.

Well, thanks, Terry, I'm glad you discovered us And hey, if you want to dip into the archive, you just found out, how didn't you? So this podcast, like I said, is going to be taken up with an online interview discussion I had with some scouts from up in Canada.

But first here's a little reflection on the troops that our troop takes up there, And after that's done we're going to move straight into the interview. This podcast is a little bit on the longer side, but I think you'll agree with me.

This summer, one early mid-August Friday morning, I'm going to get up very early, We're going to load a bunch of gear and a crew full of scouts and adults into a big 15 passenger van And we're going to start heading north from our home just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, And we're going to cross the great state of New York and we're going to be in Canada. That's right. We're off to Ontario's Algonquin Provincial Park for a week of.

It's just a natural place, So it's beautiful. Well, there's the Algonquin, There's the line, There's the whole of it. They've got part of it. They've got properties and territories, They've got valleys, There's airs And they've got the cities And they've got all of them. It's beautiful, It's beautiful, It's beautiful, It's beautiful. Up early again the next morning we're off the opiago store, we grab our canoes, we grab our gear, get everything padded down, We jump up the lake.

We have no doubt. We have a watercast There. You get the type of canoes that run up in front of you. You have no doubt. You have no doubt. You have no doubt.

You have no doubt. You have no doubt. You have no doubt. You have no doubt. The water is very clear, very clear. The water is very clear, very clear.

The water is very clear, very clear. The water is very clear. You'll find a place to shower in the morning And it's out there.

Personal tie between the different foreign countries. A living force, a great brotherhood of service, a joyous work. On the Scoutmasters podcast, we're welcoming Tom Brewer on the line from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

How are you doing, Tom? Excellent thanks. I've got Harry Snyder from London, Ontario Canada. Hey, Harry, Hey there, Clark. One of these fellows are Scouters and they're going to help introduce Scouts Canada to us.

So, Tom, you're involved with boys and girls between the ages of 5 and 7 in the Beaver Scouts. That's correct. Yes, Tell me a little bit about that.

What do they do? We do everything that the Scouts do, just on a much smaller scale.

So we still go for hikes, we build campfires, we go camping winter and spring, summer, fall. The only difference is we don't go to the lowest of Scouts do so when the Scouts are sleeping outside in Quinzies in the winter. We're sleeping inside in cabins. The rest of the time we're in spring fall. We're intense.

And how big a group do you work with? My group is.

We have 16 in my colony right now, so it's a good size colony. And are you the only person working with them?

No, we have five leaders and we also have a Ventura Scout who's also one of our leaders. And you said the word Quinzies and you have to explain that to us: Snow shelters. Essentially, what you do is build a big mound of snow and dig yourself a hole in it. Oh right, and I guess you get to do that pretty regularly up there. You'd be surprised.

This winter not so much. There's not enough snow up here, unfortunately in the auto area. But last winter, yeah, the Scouts did that at Camp Obimicon.

They built good-sized Quinzies and I'd say about six, seven feet tall, And they dug them out and put the branches in so they know how deep to go, and they did a really good job of it. So your beaver colony is part of a larger group, the Thuridoline's group.

Is that right? That's correct.

We have beavers, cubs, scouts, ventures and rovers. We don't have rovers.

All we have to venture is we have everything from age five to age 18.. So after the beaver colony, what do we have next? They swim up to cubs and that starts between eight and 10..

And there they do a lot more stuff, more independence. So there they're doing their own cooking under supervision. There they are learning more of the map and compass stuff and they're given more independence. But it's still not. They're somewhat running their own program and they make choices on what badges and what stars they want to work on, But there's still a lot of adult guidance there for them.

Now also for the cubscouts. A few of them have the opportunity to be beaver leaners.

We call them kios and we have four of our cubscouts who are kios and they come down and help lead beaver activities. Okay, So these are cubscouts who are either seven or eight years old, or eight to ten years old, Eight to ten, yes, So they're helping you out. That's very interesting. We don't really have that division between.

We go from about six years old up through ten, and that's we call cubscouts, And then it's up to boy scouts. Are the ages and grades in the schools basically the same as the US, where in six years old they start in the first grade, or is that different? Yes, Six years old starts first grade.

However, before that, at least in Ontario, we have a junior kindergarten and a senior kindergarten. So for beaver scouts they start in senior kindergarten, which is age five, Between the ages of five and ten.

That five years, the first couple in the beaver colony and then in cubscouts, and then they're up to a boy scout troupe. Is that correct? That's correct. They're a scout troupe.

Okay, It's not boy scouts because they're coed. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm going to make that mistake several times within the course of the conversation, no doubt. And, Harry, that's where you come in, because you have a corollary to the assistant Scoutmaster position in the States with the 68th London scout troupe.

Is that right? Yep, that's right.

So what's that like? Well, considering how wiped I feel after a linking camp that we just had with our cubscouts.

So you said that I'm a linking camp, Yes, Okay, So you have to explain that to me. Within scouts Canada, Each section is expected to have one or two activities a year with with either the section below or with the section above.

We have a very special weekend, typically at the last, the last of February, where our our, our cub packs- we were fortunate to have two within our group- have a linking weekend with with the scout troupe And the entire weekend is planned, coordinated and operated by our senior scouts. They're 13 years old and they pretty well run the whole weekend with with very little guidance from from the adults, And it's a it's a pretty, pretty serious undertaking for them. It takes them about two weeks to plan to two months, excuse me plan- and from identifying a venue to to picking out the, the types of food and things like that, but that everyone's going to to have, and making sure that that there's, that there's fun and exciting activities for, not only for for the cubs but for the scouts as well. And this is also coed. Scouts Canada is virtually coed. There are- there are, a couple of exceptions- The agreement that the national body has signed with the Latter-day Saints Church allows the Latter-day Saints to to remain a single sex group.

For the most part, these these groups are private and they're only catering to, to youth within their church. And I'm fascinated with the group concept because that's something that's unknown down here.

We have separate units for cub scouts and then separate units for boy scouts and then separate units for venturers. If I understand what I've read correctly, you have a group that encompasses all those ages.

This, the concept of a, of a group of, you know, providing umbrella services, I suppose, to all, all age groups. You know one group for a small town or or perhaps in a larger city, where, where, where I am, where we're serving a geographic portion of the of the city. That's really something that's that's grown out of, out of the British model.

What's the kind of administrative structure of a scout group There is? There is a group, commissioner, who provides oversight on behalf of the group to to the larger area and also makes make sure that that we're we're fulfilling our obligations with, with our sponsor, has a proper committee structure set up.

You know, an overall treasurer, quarter, master, that the usual, the usual types of of things that you would see within your own committee, within like a typical BSA scout unit. But the major difference being is is that, as opposed to a separate committee for for a Cub Scout pack or a Boy Scout troop, is that we would have representation from each section.

You know attending these, these group committee meetings. One of the one of the great things that this allows us is this allows us to to do as, as Harry said, linking.

So we'll have the Cub Scouts and the Beaver Scouts do and do activities together and it provides a natural progression. So when the child turns eight, they have they have some more of that already there for them to go.

Another cool thing that we have is we have a leader who will do two or three sections. So I know what one of our leaders, one of our Beaver Scout leaders, is, also the Cub is also the Cub Scout leader.

So there's always that already that relationship there. So then when they move up, that's not unfamiliar territory. They already know one of the leaders and they have it's and they were in the same knacker with the same group of kids. It helps in terms of retention and familiarity.

What kind of leader training happens? Well, when you first join, you go through your normal screening process.

So you do your police check, your reference check, you're interviewed, then you do something called your Wood Badge 1, which you can either do online or you can do over a weekend. So they teach you about how to handle kids. And the Wood Badge 1 is section-specific.

If you want to be a Beaver Scouts leader or a Cub Scouts leader, you take a different Wood Badge 1 that deals mostly with your section, so it's more the administration of your colony or pack. It's the how to handle the age group, how to teach them, how to guide them, what their age and care age characteristics are, things like that.

And who interviews prospective leaders? The, usually the head section leader and the group.

Commissioner, Are you a parent as well? Either of you, Tom and Harry, are you both parents of people in Scouts? I am, yes. Yeah, I'm a parent as well.

Is it sons or daughters? I've got a son in Cub Scouts and he was in my. He was with me in Beaver's for two years and I got two daughters in my Beaver colony right now.

Oh nice, that's a busy afternoon, isn't it? I have a son who is now a third year scout. He's been in the program all the way along since he was eligible to join Beaver's. I have a daughter as well. She is going to join the troop next year once she becomes eligible. But she was a Beaver for one year but she didn't continue with the program.

So we kind of left the age progression off at the scout troop. What ages, Harry? It's really 11,, 12 and 13, depending on circumstances. A scout has an opportunity to remain until he or she is 16, but I do see some kids doing a fourth year of Scouts. I haven't personally bumped into a 16 year old scout yet, but there is provisions within the rules for them to be there.

The typical age range after that is what we call Venturers and there is an extra R in that as opposed to the BSA program, and that is that's a 14 to 17 year old program. So for me it's interesting just with the contact that we have at Camperies and things with troops that come up from the states. There are kids that are basically 11 to 17, as you would expect. But really what Scouts Canada has for the Scouts and the Venturers is a fairly segmented program.

So you've got one age cohort that's basically in junior high and you've got another age cohort that's in senior high. After Venturers. There's that little known program that is little known to us here in the states, but that's all over the world and that's Rovers.

Tell me about Rovers. Rovers was originally, I think, part of BP's original vision for scouting. Once a boy scout turned 18, more than a teenager, but still finding his way in society, BP envisioned that a program should be designed that would really sort of follow a quest towards what he thought was like the original Knights of the Round Table to gain more in citizenship.

So this was a companion book that he wrote called Rovering to Success. You're starting to see Rover crews making a comeback now. There's a very active crew out on the east coast at the University of New Brunswick. They're very active. They're very high profile. There's other groups within the Vancouver area out in British Columbia that are extremely active in things that they're doing and providing good opportunities for youth to network with other youth and have a good time but also provide really really good service to their communities.

Do Rovers get involved with assisting the rest of the group with leadership and things like that as well? A lot of Rovers are leaders with Cub Scouts, Beaver Scouts and Scouts and Venturers for that matter. What we experience here sometimes is we experience a lot of attrition in the transition between the different sections and especially from the Cub Scout to the Boy Scout section.

Is there any special place where you see a lot of attrition? Yeah, speaking for a frog, we see a lot between Beavers and Cub's. We are trying to work on that. There has been some drop off from the Cub Scout up to the Scout level. This was really the challenge that I put out to my Scouts this weekend is, if you have an opportunity to show yourself off, to be friendly, to be helpful, to show the younger kids that you guys are doing awesome things and you're having a great time doing it, you've got a really, really good success of getting the kids that are getting ready to transition. There is some apprehension when a child is getting ready to join the next group.

We do see a little bit of drop off, but really what we're seeing is that as the kids get older, the kids that really really want to be there in the program are the ones that are sticking around And you know naturally you're going to have some attrition somewhere. But I wonder sometimes if some of the things that we experience aren't almost kind of caused constitutionally. By the way we've got our program arranged. I've always been really interested in the idea of trying to get a little closer to the group concept here.

I mean, there's only so much adult volunteer help to go around, And this is this is really something where where I think the Scouts up here have, you know, have a, have a good system, where there there seems to be some sort of efficiency. Hi, I'm Kevin Kellan, the happy camper, and you're listening to the Scoutmaster podcast.

So joining us is Dean Post, and Dean is in Guelph, Ontario, which is out west of Toronto, And Dean works with the 26 Guelph Venture Scout Company And that's the age after the group that Harry is working with over there in London, Ontario. Welcome to the podcast, Dean. Thank you very much. It's great to be a glad to share our experiences with everyone.

Yeah, what we've? We've had a background about, about the Beaver colonies and the Cub Scout groups, And we've talked with Harry a bit about the scout troops. We've touched a little bit on the Venturers.

What's a? What's a Venturer Scout Company? That sounds awfully important.

Well, Venture Scout Company is a group of the Ventures that come together and run themselves like a business, almost a corporate sense where they are in charge of their whole business and what they do in their activities. They have elected executive with a president, vice president, treasurer, And it's up to them to determine what's going on.

And that age is what? Age is 14 to 17, boys and girls. And we also touched a little bit about rovers. Harry helped fill us in a little bit about rovers. That happens afterwards.

What size is the 26 Guelph Currently? We're 12 youth at the moment And again, it's a mixture of boys and girls.

I'm constantly reminded of the, of the coed nature of the activities in scouting up there, which is endlessly fascinating to Boy Scout leaders in the United States, I can tell you, because we have no idea how we would, how we would manage anything If it was, if it was a coed operation. It's endlessly fascinating to some Boy Scouts as well. Yes, Yes.

And so what kind of? What kind of activities do they do in a venture company?

Well, venture company, it's scouting. So it's about doing things outdoors, but doing thing active. I mean. The last few months we've had a variety of activities.

We've done archery, we've done riflery, which the Boy Scouts of America be familiar with, of course, as well as done some various services. In fact, a couple weeks ago we cooked over 700 meals at a scout camp.

Oh nice, winter scout camp, And we were the quarter masters for the weekend, Uh huh. Currently the youth are planning what they're calling bacon camp.

So the end of March they're holding a camp and they're gonna do a lot of cooking And it's bacon focus. So today they were sending me pictures of the bacon stuff they were making.

Ah, is this, is this proper bacon, Or is that Canadian bacon stuff? It's proper bacon side bacon?

Oh, okay, But scared when I saw the dessert, which is bacon dipped in chocolate. So well, that wouldn't that made my heart skip a beat, but I don't know if it would scare me or not. That's exactly what I said, Heart. If people are, come with this camp really.

And did you, did you got? Are you guys lucky enough to have any snow on the ground at this point? There's just a slight death scene here in Guelph. I'm gonna speak in metric here. We only have a one or two centimeters on the ground.

What about? What about all the way up there in Ottawa?

We've got about? You have about 10 centimeters of snow. It's more ice on the ground right now.

It's a very icy winter so far. When does winter end for you?

Around July or so, Sometimes it feels that way. No, snows usually gone and I see you on late March, early April.

Okay, I gotta tell you, last weekend, and when we were, when we were camp- the ace will help us quite a bit- We made the beaver scouts, made a fort, And then we had the venture scouts attack the fort and we had a great snowball fight. And I gotta tell you, even though the ventures are big, the beaver scouts are many. The beaver scouts won.

Well, I think one of the one of the really interesting things that we've been discussing is the linking activities. And, Dean, you alluded to one that the scout company participated in very recently. And this is this big camp: 700 people, as I was said. No, it was 700 meals. There was about three to 400 people at the camp.

Okay, certain meals we had to feed camp staff, Other meals we had to feed the entire camp. That's still a pretty big number of people.

And was that one with one of these linking events? It was a scout camp.

It was designed for scouts, It was the annual winter camp out of our local scope camp In the states we have, you know these oh, roughly six to seven week seasons at our camps where we have a summer camp program. Is that is?

Does that happen up there as well? There are some camps And there is a camp close to where Dean lives that has, I think, a two to three week program through the summer for Cubs. In Calgary, Alberta, where I used to live, there were, there were some opportunities for that.

Closer to my area we have one summer camp that's a bi-annual week-long camp called the Great Lakes Jamboree, which really serves as sort of a regional, a regional opportunity for kids to get used to longer term camping. I know up here in Ottawa Opimikon we do have- I believe it's six weeks of a week-long camps that are offered, but those are offered both to the public and to SCO members. One of the things that you remarked on in the information you sent me, Harry, was the fact that Canadian scouting is relatively small in comparison to the BSA And that is a huge advantage in the fact that you can make lots of connections and you can change things with relative ease as well.

Well, relative ease is a relative way of saying it, I guess, And the fact that it is a smaller organization, that seems in my mind it's a flatter organization than it's been. You can have communications, basically with the person who's who's in charge, the Chief Commissioner of Scouts Canada, whose name is Steve Kent. An ordinary scouter like me can be Facebook friends with him.

I was going to add to about the, the fact that we have this action plan and we're organizing, we're organizing the movement here, which key is. That is, the role of youth.

We have created quite a few formal roles for youth within the organization, including every area now has a youth commissioner who works hand in hand with the adult scouter, the adult area commissioner, to ensure we're having quality programs and we are, you know, servicing our youth of what they need. If I'm right, I've seen that in a couple of other organizations worldwide.

I think I've read about something about that on the World Organization, the Scouting Movement website, at one point where they're really investing youth with a much higher profile within the organization, I guess up in those upper levels of administration and things. Oh, definitely, I mean we, the WOSM- yes, that's exactly what they're advocating for on. Scout's Canada, like many other organizations, is fully embracing that.

We have a national youth commissioner down to the groups, have group commissioners just starting as well who are youth. Dean, I think you have the longest tenure as a volunteer, at 20 years. Tom, you've been involved for about three as a leader.

This is my third right now, yes, Yeah, and Harry, about nine- Yeah, finishing year nine this year. So, Dean, over the past 20 years, what have you seen change?

Well, it's changed and evolved continuously. We did go to a period where it was the same old, same old, and you had a lot of us old Scouters- I'm now one of those old Scouters, you know, constantly setting the direction and it was going nowhere.

So it's nice to see this new vitality, this new energy we now have and this commitment to stay relevant and reinvent ourselves and get the youth fully engaged in the program and not just talk about getting them engaged. Looking at things online and talking to your fellows seems to be a tremendous amount of energy behind these changes.

We have an event coming up this summer. We talked about summer camp a few minutes ago, but the Ventures are having a national event this summer the first weekend in or the first week in July, a week-long event up at Halliburton, which is a large Scout reserve just south of a Glockwin Park which you're familiar with, Right, right, And it's a week-long event for Ventures and most of the staff are rovers.

Okay, The key people running the actual event, the three key, are actually under 30 themselves. So, from this area, we're sending two units and it's going to be rovers. Going with them, I'm doing the paperwork, I'm advising them, but I ain't going.

Young people go do it And well, that's interesting because the next national jamboree we have is in 2013.. So they're trying to favor a much younger set of adults being involved with that, which I thought was very refreshing. I thought that was a great idea. Yeah, I was actually at the world jamboree this past summer in Sweden and got a real lesson from our European counterparts, where, in many cases, it was rovers bringing these venture-aged youth to the world jamboree, and they had much more energy, much more engaging with the youth than some old guy like myself, And that's why, as you mentioned, many organizations around are encouraged in the youth involvement. That's a prime example. I was actually able to meet a guy.

He had been to a world jamboree and he was about to take his older scouts and venturers over to the world jamboree in England. He was maybe 22,, 23,, and what's wonderful and what's really really great to see is that he hasn't stopped. He has continued scouting along and he has just assumed becoming the youngest area commissioner in the Edmonton area.

He's now one of the top dogs within the council up in northern Alberta. Expand on that from Sweden, Dean. This is something that you saw there, just a lot more younger energy going on. Oh, there was a boundless young energy at the world scout jamboree. 24 hours a day, It never stopped. There's no such thing as quiet time at a world jamboree.

Yeah, I mean, the energy was incredible. Yes, there were older scouters there, like myself. But yeah, you see the European model: a lot more girls involved, a lot more younger leaders and a real sense that you have to give back In your tenure.

Dean, was the organization always coed? No, we became officially coed in 98,, I believe, And that went off without a hitch. There was no complaining. There was no complaint.

I must admit that some of the best scouters I knew said to me point blank: you know when it goes coed, I'm quitting, And none of them did. They're all involved and they're all great leaders and they fully embraced it.

So there may be a message in there somewhere. Yes, Well, at the world scout jamboree. The only ones that weren't coed was this large one from the south of us and the ones from the Muslim countries in the Middle East.

Yeah, so there may. There may just be a message there.

You know, I think one of the things that is the way for coed in Canada is just the fact that we've got the programs broken up every three years, that the way that we have things broken up here seems to facilitate it better. I spent a week or so in Switzerland this past summer in an international scouting environment. It works extraordinarily well.

In our venture program we can have young ladies as members, but that is starting at the age of 14.. But that's how it started in Canada.

I mean, it was the Rovers and Ventures who went coed first, And then the Beavers went coed and then they just opened all up. Let me start with you, Tom.

Do you have any exposure through the internet or anything like that, to any other? I'm pretty much focused to both Scouts, Canada and Third Orleans.

I guess the challenges we have is getting ourselves out there again and get ourselves out there and make people realize that you know there are some really good specific programs out there, like there's hockey programs and baseball programs. But it's scouting where you do everything and they will get a chance to explore things that you know you're never going to see if you just focus on one program. Do you guys do an awful lot in the way of recruitment and things. We seem to be getting a lot better- word of malice. We seem to be getting people who are coming out and they've heard about that we're running a good quality program and they're really excited to do the kinds of things that we're doing as well. That's really something that I'm seeing within the last couple of years within our Scout program and it's great.

And what about you, Dean, At the top end, at the venturing end, and rovers? Are there a lot of new faces that show up at that point?

Or is it pretty much just Scouts who have worked their way up through the program? We do get new faces.

We get kids who have never been involved in scouting before, who you know, hear about the fun things we're doing. They come out and they have a great time.

Are there more youth involved in Scouts Canada now than there were 10 years ago? Unfortunately not. We had a few years as decline, as I made allusion to earlier, but we're starting to grow again The last two years.

Well, the last, last year we actually stopped shrinking and then this year we actually grow. I can't remember the numbers, but it was indicated earlier where we're trying to double our numbers in the next few years. Typically, within the BSA you would be very hard pressed to find a leader who was not a parent and who didn't kind of follow right along in the program with their son.

Is it the same way in Scouts Canada, Most of the leaders- that would be, you know, over 30- would be parents of children within their program. Is that true with you, Tom and Dean?

Yeah, in my group I know that amongst parents will start at a certain level and find the level where they hit their groove and then the youth will progress. But the parent will remain in that and that level where they find their.

You know where they find that connection. So I know, like my son's got the Cub Scouts but I stayed back in Beaver Scouts because, well, I'm at a different height than them but I'm at the same maturity level.

So it works out pretty well, Dean, do you find? Is that so when it gets up into ventures, is it mostly parents involved?

I think Tom said it right is the fact that, yeah, most of our leaders in Scouts Canada, of course, are parents. But he's right in the fact that certain parents, especially the really good ones, find their groove. They stick with a section and they provide a lot of input to it. For venture scout age, I'm saying it's almost a 50-50 match. For what I'm looking around, A lot of the advisors are- and I say advisors, we're not leaders, we're advisors- Our parents, while others have gone through scouting. Their youth have moved on, they're doing other things, but they hang around as an advisor because, quite frankly, it's a lot easier.

We just sit back and make sure they don't burn the place down, but we don't have to carry the heavy bags. Tom, you work with about five other adults in the Beaver Colony there, I do, yes, And what would be the longest tenured leader who you're working with? We've got one guy who's been there for 12 years now. Wow, Yeah, his son is up in a venture scout and he'll do driving for them, but that's about it. He spends the rest of his time actually as the Cub Scout leader and he helps out with Beaver Scouts. That would be a very anomalous person in a Cub Scout pack, Somebody with 12 years of tenure in leadership.

You do these linking events and everything like that. Do you do any family camping Within our section? Generally not.

We have a couple of opportunities for parents to come along and we get good support from the parents. We get good help with our fundraising and things like that, but the parents seem to be content to let their kids go off to camp. And I can say, in terms of Beaver Scouts, parents usually don't come along for multi-activities.

So even the five to seven-year-olds and we're taken in places where we go to something called Beaver Rees, which are essentially the jamborees, but they're only half a day. Very few parents come along there.

We also have something called the White Tail Sleepover which is for our seven-year-olds, So we'll take them to a museum and sleep overnight there And parents, once again, usually don't come. Let the kids kind of spread their wings a bit at that age. That works out pretty well.

Well, I could just make one comment about parents in camp, Because Scouts Canada were very strict about making sure our leaders are properly screened, that there's full police record checks. We actually for a parent to get involved and attend in a camp. They were supposed to be screened to stay overnight and not just be looking after their own child.

So, Beaver Scouts, as Tom indicated, there are times when a parent will stay with their own child, But in order to work with any other child and overnight camp, they need to be properly screened And at all times they're under the supervision of leaders who've been properly screened and trained Right, And always two leaders, Yeah, At least two leaders. Well, that's very similar to our standards here.

Let me ask you this: in an attempt of cultural celebration, cross-cultural celebration and hopefully not cross-cultural insensitivity, May I ask you all to say the word A-B-O-U-T. What was all this about?

Okay, that was about because I'm originally from Western Canada. Okay, All right.

So they do have a shorter O out there because it's colder. Yeah, It's colder and windier out there. Listen, A, you hoser. You trying to make a say about A boot. You needed to find someone from Nova Scotia if you really really wanted to get that.

Is that right? Do the O's get longer from west to east?

Is that the way that it works? I'd say I spent five years in New Brunswick, so I spent quite a bit of time with New Flanders and Nova Scotians. They don't get as long as the stereotype, but, yes, they do get longer, All right, Especially for New Flanders.

Yeah, Well, I know that So well, sorry, Well, we've got one for you. Clark, I want you to say A-U-N-T, A-U-N-T. Ant. Oh, foiled, Yeah, Properly, it would be aunt. Whatever you do, don't make them spell the word color, Color or favorite, or That's right, Or even just the last letter of the alphabet: Yes, True, true. I did notice, though, that driving up there, that kilometers go by much faster, Yes, In miles.

I really do appreciate you listening in guys And I sure appreciate you helping out. Well, I really enjoy your podcast.

They've helped me quite a bit in becoming a new leader, So they've been great. They gave me a lot of ideas. Some of it crosses over, eh, Oh, it does quite a bit. It's as I said, we're lower level, younger level, but it's just different scale. Harry, thanks very much for joining us And we'll see you somewhere on the interwebs. There You bet.

And Dean, it was nice to talk to you, Tom and Dean. I think we need to grab a cup of coffee.

I drive back between London and Georgetown a lot And there would be a Tim Horton somewhere in between there, somewhere Only about 150.. Okay, thanks very much, Harry.

Okay, thank you, Clark, Take care. Good night guys, Good night.

So, Tom, up in Ottawa, Ontario, certainly do appreciate you spending the time with us telling us about Scouts Canada. It's been a great conversation. Wouldn't mind having it over again. I mean, I really enjoyed it. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on the podcast, Dean.

Let me make sure I've practiced the name so many different times: Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, That's correct, Thank you. Thank you, Clark, It's been a pleasure.