Scoutmaster Podcast 107

And now the old Scoutmaster. So I know this scout.

He gets to be about 16, he gets his driver's permit and he gets his driver's license and then he starts bugging dad about getting his own car. And dad is a little reluctant to do this and he says I'll tell you what: finish getting the God and country award you started working on last year and maybe get your hair cut and then we'll talk about getting you a car.

So the scout really got a fire under him and he finished his religious award and he asked his dad about getting a car and dad was glad to see that he'd earned the award, but he still wanted him to get his hair cut. His son replied he said he learned- I learned a lot about the Bible stuff in doing a religious award and it turns out that all the guys in the Bible had long hair. Moses had long hair, Samson had long hair, Jesus apparently had long hair.

Dad replies: yeah, did you also notice they walked everywhere that they went? Oh no, no, they didn't. The son replied: I know that the apostles had a Honda.

Dad looked a little confused and he said: how do you know that they had a Honda? He says it says right there in the Bible, Dad, it says they were all in one accord. They were all in one accord. Oh my, That was a really long trip to get to that joke.

Okay, And that I have to thank. We're playing.

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster Podcast. This is Clarke Green.

So we always start out by looking in the virtual mail bag, at virtual mail, and the first piece of virtual mail is from iTunes. It's a review on iTunes. You can put a review on iTunes.

You know you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and if you go over there you can leave a review and a rating And this is the vaunted five-star rating. I really appreciate that. The best podcast on scouting, says Old Eagle Cub Dad. He says I really wait each new podcast helpful and insightful information. With someone who spent 25 years in the program, it doesn't get better than this.

Well, thanks so much, Old Eagle Cub Dad. I really appreciate your kind words.

And then, when Cousin wrote in, he says: thanks again for the insightful observations. Scouter Harry. Scouter Harry is in the 68th London troop in London, Ontario, Canada. He says: hi, Clark, another great podcast listen. This morning, as usual, on my hour and 45 minute commute, The discussion with Blaise Vitale was interesting as our troop faces some of the same issues with the age range.

Our Scout program usually goes up to 14 and then the youth Mosey up to Venturers. You play the late great Leroy Anderson's Bugler's Holiday as an intro to the panel discussions. It's a wonderful piece of music and it puts me in mind that I played it as part of a regional honor program in 1981..

Wow, Harry, that's a while back, isn't it? I can whistle the first clarinet part when you play it.

Well, thanks for being in touch, Harry. And that's Harry Schneider. And Harry is actually going to be on the podcast next week along with a couple of other Scouters from up in Canada. Make sure to tune in next week and hear Harry and Dean Post and Tom Brewer talk Scouts Canada. We had a lovely discussion and I'm looking forward to putting that together for the podcast. Jeff Berg wrote in.

He says I love the blog and the podcast. It's become a regular visit for me. I've also been spreading the word. It's my small effort to make you an internet sensation. Thanks, Jeff. Oh, yes, an internet sensation.

That could go a lot of different ways, couldn't it? Mike Brady says: thank you for the outstanding service you provide to all adult leaders. Your weekly posts and podcasts help us stay focused on the essential elements of the Scouting program. Keep up the great work.

Well, thank you for your kind words there, Mike. I really do appreciate it. Let's see here This time around, in Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, we're going to talk a little bit about- ooh, you could almost call this- ages and stages. We're going to talk about developing youth leadership in younger Scouts and kind of how to tailor your approach to that Kind of an expansion of talking to Blaise Vitaly last week and younger Scouts, newer troop, newer scout leader, and it really got me to thinking.

And so in Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less, we'll be going back and taking a look at that. And then we have great email question that came in and that should be enough for this podcast.

So let's get started, shall we?

Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less? When we talk about youth leadership and scanning, we have to talk about it in the context of the age of the Scouts, the maturity of the Scouts, the experience of the Scout leaders and the experience of the Scout unit. Those are all very important things.

Now, the basic principles of youth leadership. They will apply in every sense.

But we need to remember that scouting and scouting principles is not a one size fits all. It gets tailored to individual situations and that's part of the genius of the program. Youth leadership in a Scout troop has got to be developmentally based and progressive. All youth leadership is based on the same principles but they will not function exactly the same and our expectations have to be scaled to the age and the experience of our Scouts. We don't start out, for instance, as a child with a two wheel 22 speed mountain bike right At the top of a really steep hill.

You know, I started out with a tricycle in the driveway and then I moved on to a two wheeler with training wheels and finally ended up pedaling away on my own on my Schwinn 10 speed bike, which, if you are a person of a certain age, you will realize the magic of the Schwinn 10 speed and you'll remember the excitement of getting that racing bike. So we're not going to start with a racing bike. Let's start with an understanding that scouting invests youth leaders with full responsibility for making things happen. It's not responsibility that's given to adults who then dull this out.

The program really puts it right on the Scouts and the Scouts have this responsibility- we could say constitutionally- and the reason that that's important to remember is that the methods I'm about to explain- we need to progress away from adult involvement. As closely as I'm about to explain it, We also need to understand. Scouts get to make decisions and plans free from the coercion and interference of adults, but they are going to need their support and they are going to need their advice.

So what I'd like to do is suggest a way forward in given a particular situation. Let's say that you are a brand new Scout leader, you have a group of brand new Scouts who are 11 or 12 years old and you have just started a brand new troop.

How do you go with youth leadership there? I mean, you don't have the experience, the Scouts don't have the maturity and experience to put this together.

How are you going to be a youth led group? Well, I'm going to suggest it's best to begin with direct, simple choices. I wouldn't start with a long presentation about leadership based on a lot of abstract principles. It's not going to work for guys who are 11 or 12 years old. Work for some of them, but not for the great majority of them.

What I think we're looking for is something more like: that's a tricycle, here's the pedals and this is how you make it go forward. This is how you steer it. Quick stuff. I get out the Scout Handbook. If you look at the current edition of the Scout Handbook, look at page 36 through 38. Skip over the types of patrols and you've got maybe half a dozen paragraphs there about the subject: your patrol.

Let's say, you get those guys and you stand up in a circle and everybody has their Scout Handbook and each one of the boys reads a paragraph of that section of the book. You don't take a whole lot of time and explain and discuss things, You just read the paragraphs and then you can begin asking questions.

So you guys, how big should a patrol be, Do you figure? So this is going to be a patrol.

Then Will that do for you? Do you need to divide up into two patrols? No, this is going to be a patrol.

So now you need to elect a patrol leader. It says in the Scout Handbook that patrols have names and they have flags and all kinds of patches and stuff.

So do you guys want to do that? Want to have a name and a flag and a patch?

Okay, well, I'll be back in five minutes and tell me what the name and the flag and the patches are going to look like, what you're going to choose for a patrol name. And then that probably took 20 minutes or so, maybe 30. And you did that at a Scout meeting and that is probably about all you're going to do, because with 11 or 12-year-olds they're going to be very energetic and they're going to be very interested in playing a game right about then probably, Or doing something other than standing around, reading from a book and talking to you.

So that's fine, You get 20 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, you know, depending on the group, the dynamics involved. And then let's get to the next meeting and the next time around the patrol leader is working right alongside you and they're reading another little section, pages 48 and 49. And that section is entitled Where Do You Want to Be. It'll only take a few minutes and if each boy reads a paragraph of the section, then they're not listening to you do it, They're actually participating in it and they're going to follow very closely when they know that they're going to read.

So you read Where Do You Want to Be, And this explains all the great stuff that Scouts do in their troop and their patrol. Okay, And they read that and you say, okay, Mr Patrol Leader, let's make a list of five or 10 things that you guys would like to try.

Now it might take, you know, broadly leading questions on your part, It might take some real digging, but in the end you're going to have a list of five or 10 things and there goes, your 15 or 20 minutes is over. That was a lot of hard work and the patrol is ready to do something else.

They're ready to, you know, have a foot race or, do you know, run around and play a game or something. And then maybe you get back and for the last five or 10 minutes you say: okay, guys, put your hands together, out of these five to 10 things, pick two or three And once they have done that, take your favorite out of the two or three and take that home with you- and you have some work to do- Take that idea and develop it according to the method you'll find on pages 49 through 52 of the Scout Handbook and then bring that back to the Scouts and explain it to them very quickly. This is where you want to get out of stopwatch.

Now, that's meant to be literal. I mean a literal physical stopwatch and time yourself and take about 10 minutes at the very most, at the very most, and when 10 minutes is up, you just have to stop talking.

So what you're going to talk about is you're going to go over what you did to develop the idea into a plan of action and you'll tell them how you use the information on pages 49 through 52 of the Scout Handbook to do that. Show them that part of the Scout Handbook and then talk about how you developed the plan. You got maximum 10 minutes to do that- extra points if you can get it in less.

And then ask who's going to develop the next idea and if that plan works, you know if they, like that plan, say okay, can we use this for our first camp out? You know, if they say yes, then you're off and running because now you start asking questions around that plan.

Well, where are we going to go do this? Does anybody want to check out and see the different places to do this?

How are we going to eat while we're on the camp out? Anybody have any ideas about that? And you can use the pages that I'm talking about and use exactly the method I'm talking about. But don't be dogmatic about it, and I'm not being dogmatic about it either. What I'm trying to do is give you the picture of a way to incrementally develop this stuff. You'll be very involved.

You work alongside the boys, You try and draw some information out of them. It will be halting and difficult to begin with, but they're very energetic and you watch and observe and try and tap into that energy a little bit.

You know when it's time to play a game, let the patrol leader lead the game. You know in the first instance, when we talked about them choosing a patrol name, let the patrol leader lead that part and then step back five or six steps and watch and listen without opening your mouth, without signaling to them, without doing anything, and just watch. Because what you're going to see is relatively chaotic and messy and two of the boys will run off and do this and the patrol leader will be struggling to keep the other three guys to keep their attention, and it's going to look horrible, It's going to look absolutely horrible. But within that horrible mess you're going to see a small glimmer of what you want to work with. You're going to see that organizational planning leadership glimmer there and you'll see exactly where you are and what you have to work with and how you're going to build on this incrementally, just a step at a time, meeting after meeting, week after week, month after month, year after year and within a couple of years time you're going to have a fully functioning mature boy led operation. And it's done just in those incremental steps.

It takes vision, perspective and determination to do this. You have to have a vision for what's going to happen in the future and you have to accept the premise that scouting is about youth leadership.

So you don't give up because it's going to look horrible to begin with, but you have to accept that premise. Don't give up. And that's the vision. You have to have the perspective that it is going to happen incrementally. It's going to happen according to the abilities of the boys and you have to be determined enough to carry out that vision and to maintain that perspective and not to get lost in the idea of they're not really doing the things the way that they actually should.

So I'm going to step in and do them. It's just constantly working with them and everything like that.

Even those of us who are veteran scout leaders and who have troops with pretty much so autopilot programs and experienced youth leaders. We're still doing a lot of this every single time. We're still starting from square one every year or six months.

So go right to that scout handbook and start picking things out. Keep it short, keep it on point and look for those little glimmers of hope that you see in the boys as you go along, and it will all develop. The program works. It really really does,

Music. Hi, this is Dr Paul Auerbach and you are listening to Clarke Green on the Scoutmaster podcast.

So I got this email from Steve Boone and Steve's a scoutmaster of troop 920 in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. He says: thanks so much for your podcast. I've been a regular listener for some time and learned a great deal about scouting. I'm a new scoutmaster since last June, when my son and I joined the troop. One of my motivations was the opportunity to spend some time with my son, especially on camping trips. As I've learned about the patrol method, however, and how patrols should cook and camp together, I'm really getting kind of disappointed about losing time with my son like sharing a tent together.

It doesn't seem like you do that if you're working the patrol method. Last week I had a dad and a potential new scout visit our troop who told me kind of the same thing: he wanted to spend more time with his son. He'd always wanted to take him camping but somehow just never gotten it together to do it. I'm interested in your thoughts on how to reconcile what appeared to be the conflicting goals of spending time with our sons and working the patrol method.

Well, thanks for being in touch, Steve, and I appreciate the kind words. I'm glad you're getting something out of this podcast and I'm going to tell you that my reply is going to sound kind of discouraging at first, but I want you to stick with me because it gets better. You and your son are going to get the most benefit from scouting if you'll follow the natural progression of the program. Scouting gradually progresses from parents being pretty and closely involved in spending time with their sons and tigers, wolves and bears, Webelos- to not being directly involved at all when they become boy scouts. Scouting in a patrol in a troop is not about creating father and son time or mother and son time, not in the way you've defined it. Far from it, in fact.

The process of scouting happens when boys are working together and the adults are really kind of only marginally involved in most of the activities. That's the patrol method.

So that means, just as you've discovered, no sharing tense with dad, no cooking with dad. There's a pretty bright line there. There's no reconciling the patrol method with the goal of a parent and a son spending time together. They're kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum. Truth be told, scouting was not conceived with the idea of parents being directly involved in the process. But don't give up yet.

Don't give up. Stick with me. What you're going to find, though- working the patrol method and going along with the progressiveness of the program- is not going to deny you something. Actually, it's going to give you something that is even better.

Okay, you're going to get a lot of sharing with your son and a lot of time with your son out of scouting. As much as you love the idea and cherish the idea of that, father and son camping and cooking and sharing a tent and doing stuff together, that way scouting is going to help you grow closer and provides for some incredible shared experiences. Without that, I've never known any parent who's involved with scouting to regret having spent the time in scouts with their son. I've known some who wish they had done a great deal more, but I've never known anybody to regret that time.

Well, you and your son won't be sharing tents or meals or really spending a great deal of time in each other's company during a scout meeting or an outing. You're going to have plenty to discuss outside of scouting activities.

Now that might seem like a small consolation, but I've got to tell you this is an incredible gift. And I can assure you that with the perspective of years, because my son and I we've been through the program for years, and so what I'm telling you is what my experience was: That father and son relationship, or that mother and son relationship, is typically going to get strained at some point as boys pass through adolescence. It's really important that it gets strained. It's a healthy process, because a boy is going to be at odds with his parents at one point. He's making his own way in the world and he has to differentiate himself from his parents and his family a little bit.

You know, it's a natural process. It's a little scary, it's a little off-putting, but it's a good thing to have happen in the end. Communications are strained during these times. That few minutes in the car to or from a scout meeting, that's a pretty incredible gift. There may not be a whole lot of words exchanged, like I say when the relationship is a little strained, but there's going to be a reason to talk about things. Having that reason sometimes can be a very big deal indeed.

Most boys new to a scout troop are going to tend to stay in their parents' orbit. If they're around, if they're involved, They're going to tend to stay in their parents' orbit at first, but they soon are going to start making their own way with their fellow scouts. At first they're going to be looking over their shoulder.

You know, is my dad over there? Is my mom over there?

Are they watching me? Are they paying attention to what's going on?

You know, will I be okay? You know, do I need to go ask them something? But soon they're going to be looking your way less and less until they're fully confident and comfortable on their own, and it's an incredibly important thing for a boy to accomplish. Another important aspect of this is you get to share this with other parents. You'll be sitting around a lot of campfires, learning what the other dads and moms are experiencing, and it's going to be basically the same kind of challenges and triumphs. You'll be able to give each other some perspective and support when things are difficult or when things are going really well.

You know, and that's an immense consolation- While you're taking refuge in the company of these other parents, your boy is taking refuge in the company of other sons. My best friends and confidants over the years have been my fellow scouters and if you talk to my son, his best friend and confidants over the years have been his fellow scouts. When the time finally comes and he's ready to make his own way in the world, you'll be sending him off, having seen him progress through the challenges of scouting. He'll have confidence, independence and he'll have those life skills that he needs to take things on that others around him may not have. It will make the transition easier when he's ready to move out and go to college. That's a tough transition.

It can be really tough, but it's going to make it a little easier for you because you've progressively let go in a very conscious way. Now, decades later, you are still going to have those scouting years that you and your son shared together and it's kind of hard to put into words.

There's a shared understanding, there's a common language and there's a real, enduring comradeship between a parent and a son who have been in scouting. The other thing I'll add is that there's just absolutely no way to explain how fast all this happens. Today he's leaving the fifth grade and joining a scout troop. Tomorrow he's graduating from college. Next week he's presenting you with a grandchild. It's going to blow your mind.

You won't believe how fast it all seems. So I'm going to encourage you to rethink things. I'm going to encourage you to trust the scouting process and the program.

You're going to end up giving up spending time with your son as you can see it now, But you're going to participate in something that I promise you is infinitely richer and it's going to be meaningful for the rest of your lives.