Scoutmaster Podcast 105

And now to you, Scoutmaster.

Advanced natural navigation techniques. Number one, on what side of a tree does moss grow? On what side of a tree does moss grow? That's easy. The outside. Oh, brother. Please send. Send some jokes. Oh, my gosh. This is podcast 105.

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clark Green. Let's take a look in the mailbag, see who we've heard from in the past week. Dave Legge is Scoutmaster Troop 35 in Mount Claire, Virginia. He wrote in to say this. Hello, Clark. Thanks for your podcast. I recently started listening and now wish I had discovered you long ago. I learned so much with each one and I look forward to the next. I've gone into the archives and started from the beginning and I'm in the tens right now. Again, thank you for the time and effort you put in your podcast. It really is making a difference. Well, thank you, Dave, for getting in touch. Dave also sent along a couple of ideas for future podcasts. And hey, keep listening. Some good ideas there. Scott Cormier wrote in and he said, I'm a former Scout and camp staff member and just now returning to Scouting after many years away in the military. Well, thanks for your service there, Scott. We all do appreciate that. I was looking around online for how to get started back with Scouting and to refresh my knowledge on Scouting. That's when I found your site. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel like I'm getting a better understanding of Scouting than I ever had before. I'm really getting excited after listening to the first two podcasts. Look forward to reading and checking out all the other information you have. Thanks again so much for the work you have done. Well, thank you, Scott, for being in touch. We certainly do appreciate it. And you can find out more about the Scoutmaster podcast over on ScoutMasterCG.com we got a blog. That's right. And we update the blog usually at least three or four times a week with new articles about Scouting, things for you to look at, things for you to think about. This time in the podcast, I'm going to treat you to a little field recording I did very recently with a friend of mine who's been involved with our troop for quite a while and has an interesting story to tell from the perspective of having been a Boy Scout himself and being a parent. And this might not be a totally unique scenario, but I think it's very important for us to. To listen to each other and to have the benefit of listening to other people who go through a lot of the same things that we do. I think that that's the key feature of having a podcast like this because we are not alone. And that is going to be backed up by a email question that I received this week. And I think the answer to that will also point out, hey, you know, we're not alone as Scout leaders out here. We have a vast support network. It just takes a little effort to tap into it. And you can tap into the support network here by emailing me scoutmastercgorizon.net that's scoutmastercgorizon.net and I'll remind you the other ways that you can keep in touch with us before we leave you in this podcast. But we've got a pretty full slate, so let's get started, shall we?

I've known Dave for, oh, at least seven or eight years, and we have had the pleasure of working together and scouting. And I know he has an interesting story to tell, and I thought it would benefit everybody to hear it. So without further ado, here's an interview that we recorded. Now, we recorded in a dining hall, so it's a little echoey and you can hear the kitchen in the background, but that's the way field recordings go. And without further ado, Dave, how did scouting start for you? Okay, well, When I was 10 years old, my father passed away, and so it was me, my mother, and my two older sisters. And about the very next year, when I turned 11, my mother took me down to the Knights at Columbus hall in Marshalltown, Iowa, where there were a bunch of Boy Scouts. And she says, you're going to join the Scout troop, David. And there were people. There were people there I knew. It wasn't like a bunch of people I didn't know. And the scoutmaster was the music teacher for the junior high and high school. And plus, as I said, I knew there were plenty of kids who I knew, so I joined the Boy Scouts, saw it through until I got my Eagle Scout. And in between, I worked a couple summers at my local Scout camp in Iowa. And just I liked the camping part, you know, friendship with the boys who I knew. And plus, unbeknownst to me at the time, I didn't figure this one out until I was probably 30 that my mother had some very good reasons to put me in there, meaning the adult leadership of the troop was very good and, you know, kind of surrogate fathers, if you want to put it that way. At least when I was, you know, with the Scouts and they looked out for me, I've Heard similar stories before where boys are kind of taken over to a Scout troop or a Cub pack and their parents say, you're going to be doing this now. Do you remember? Did you resent doing that? There were times. I mean, later on, there were times that I didn't like it. I wasn't, you know, happy. And I think I might have threatened to quit or something, but I think I liked enough of the program that we had there at that troupe that they were empty threats on my part. You know, I. Especially then after the first summer working at the Scout camp, I had a great time. And granted, I was older. I was like 15 years old, I think, that summer. So I knew that, nah, I'm gonna stick it out at least and see if I can get my Eagle. You have an interesting perspective now because you went through the program as a boy under that set of circumstances, and now you're a parent and, you know, you're kind of. I guess we call you like an alumni parent at this point because your son has gone through the program and everything. So you have these different perspectives of it. And I'm just wondering what. What was the process of getting re. Involved as an adult? When my son joined, did you take him and say, you're going to join a Scout tour, boy? I mean, maybe, kind of. Or maybe a backdoor journey to that. Mikey was. And Mikey and Jordan were friends, and I was talking to his father at the time and, oh, we're joining this troupe. And so we checked it out and with Jordan's friend there, that kind of sealed the deal for Jordan at the time. Yeah. And then it took a little while before you became involved as an adult leader. Yes. Yes. How did that work? Well, in the beginning, I just. It was more or less. I'd slow down to two miles an hour, boot him out of the car on Monday night meetings and be on my way. And. And then after a year maybe, I think I was talking to you and Jordan was there, and. And I think you asked Jordan at the time, do you want your dad assistant scoutmaster? And he said, no. And so. And we laughed and all that. But then at that time, I think that's when I started to go on outings as a. And so that. And then that really kind of reignited my past with Scouting and what I like doing. So I was a parent who went on the outings for another year or so, and then, you know, I kind of just slipped on the shirt and Jordan didn't really. I don't think he. Jordan forgot he said, yeah, I think he didn't even notice the transition at all. And that's how I kind of got back into it. Well, here's what's interesting. I think a lot of times, parents can be a little bit ambivalent about, am I going to push this? Am I going to. You know, at what point am I encouraging your kid? And what point am I really just going over the line and pushing them? And so, both from your experience as a youth and your experience as an adult, it's an interesting question, perspective, because you were basically required. You know, your mother made the decision for you in a lot of ways, and she had some really laudable motives. And then as. As an adult with a son of your own, I mean, it was. I won't say it was a similar process, but it's an interesting perspective there, because you had to kind of figure out where. How it was going to fit and what. What role you were going to take on. I think you were very sensitive to what he thought about. Yeah, I tried to. I mean, I was all over that line, though, from one, you know, I'll be honest, on one extreme to another, trying to just hands off, let him go, let him do whatever. Whatever that was. And to, you know, you got to get through requirements. You need to get that merit badge, you know, you need to step up, you know, and just, you know, I would. I would. I was all over that. The extremes of that line. And, you know, his mother, I know, was always on the high extreme about, you know, is he advancing? Is he doing this, is he doing that? And that's all well and good, and you learn from it, but then it turns into homework after a while. If you just. If that's your only focus. I think that. I think that's true of most parents trying to figure out what the right mix of encouragement is and what the right mix of, you know, you're invested in it, you want them to continue on, but you don't want to force anything. And I think that's a really common frustration with people who are involved with scouting as an adult and they have a boy involved. Yes. And was there any time when your son needed you to kind of make a decision for him and say, you're really going to stay with this? I think that happens to a lot of parents. Did that happen with you? Well, yeah, he had a rough patch in middle school, like a lot of kids did do. And there was stuff at school unrelated to Scouts that, you know, just a whole. Growing up, you know, some of the Nastiness of that at school. And then, you know, he may have run into that to some degree with maybe a particular individual at the troop. I'm not. I don't know exactly what the story was, but just one day he came home, he says, I'm quitting. And I said, really? He says, yeah, I don't like it anymore. I'm going to quit. And I said, well, you sure about that? And inside, I'm just all knots because. Oh, come on. And so he. So he quit. And then his friend Mike. Mikey. And Mikey, actually, for being a little kid at the time, was very good at it. He didn't beat him over the head. He just every once in a while would come back to him, says, you know, I'm still there having a good time, but it'd be a heck of a lot more fun if he were. If you came back and I think you'd enjoy it. After a. I think he was out maybe six or nine months, and. And then he came and finally said to me, you know, I think I'm going to go back. And that was the point. Well, I think that's great. I think that, you know, it's good. I think you need to, you know, then commit to that, whatever that ends up for you, and just. But you were comfortable enough to honor his decision and say, okay, if this is not something that you want to follow up on, I'm not going to. I'm not gonna make you do this. Parents, adults kind of get hung up on this stuff, but, I mean, my father was an Eagle Scout. My wife's father is an Eagle Scout. I'm an Eagle Scout. And plus, Just that. Not to focus all on Eagle Scout. It's not. I'm not saying that, but it was just. It was important, and we saw practicality to it in one's life as you move into adulthood. And he was kind of on his way, so that kind of was. I was fighting my internal feelings about that. And plus the guys, I liked the kids. I liked hanging with the adults. And I don't think it had registered with me personally that, okay, well, if my kid quits, I could still stay here. And I don't know if that had really registered at that time, so. So. Because you probably wanted to be more involved than he did at the time. Exactly. Yeah. Yes. Get to go camping. Exactly. Because we develop as parents as all this happens, too. Sure. And your son is your oldest. So this was your first time out of the box trying to figure all this out. Oh, yeah. We still Are if you had the ability to go back and to speak to somebody who was in the same position as you are or a similar situation, is there anything that you would tell them that might help ease the angst of it a little bit for the parent? Yeah. I don't know. Because at the end of the day, as a parent, you're gonna have angst. And if I can ease any of it to any degree you see value, you value the troop, and you're comfortable with the troop and the adults and the boys in it. And yet my kids, as I want to it call quit or they're having a rough patch of these. I don't want to go anymore. Some, you know, total hands off, and the kid leaves and that's that. He's gone. You know, we. We kind of handled it with kid gloves. And I kind of have to. I hand it to Mikey Myers. When he was, whatever. He was 12, 13 years old at the time. He. He. He was my proxy. Yeah. And we never talked. Yeah. He was just my proxy that just happened to be there. He comes back, gets back involved. Then what happens? What goes on from there? He's not the first one to step up and volunteer, unless it's something, you know, like boys. You know, something like anything. Human nature. It's something I really want to do. Right. So that was something, you know, I tried to be subtle in the back. You know, that's something you really could do. I think you could step up for that. If you're worried about that, you can handle that and try, just give encouragement, not try to beat him over the head. You've got to do this kind of thing. You know, I tried to walk a fine line on. At least in the first months that he came back. My reflection is that you really trusted the program. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And being involved in it yourself as a youth helped. But there's probably a lot of parents that weren't involved as a youth, and they're just wondering if they can trust this program. In your case, it worked. It kept him there. It did. And so in the ensuing years, he goes on and finally becomes an Eagle Scout. Yeah. And the thing too, though, with the boy leadership, the youth leadership, you know, I always said to him, you know, if there's. If you need help and you need to talk to somebody, certainly seek out the ones that you're comfortable with, the ones that have helped you before or the ones you've seen. So seek out the ones that are going to be there to lend a hand to you becoming An Eagle Scout is a wonderful thing. It's a great thing. Not all Scouts end up there. Right. Right. So go back to that year in middle school, and he comes home, he says, I'm going to quit. And you honor that decision. You let them and make that decision. As we're sitting here talking now, all this time later, you have the perspective of being able to go back and look at that and say, did you see that as being. This is the end? Yeah, it was a good run. Yeah, I did. I thought, okay, well, that's that. I mean, exactly. You know, he's. He's not going to go back. He quit, and that's that. It's an interesting story, and I think a lot of people end up in similar situations, and I think a lot of people spend a lot of sleepless nights or, you know, just wondering what to do next. And so the message I get is that you're not going to be sure that you've achieved until a few years pass and you see what happened. And I think that's the angst, isn't it? Yeah. That's where. That's where it's like, I hope we. I hope we pulled this off. And then. And then you have a successful run. So obviously, you've continued on and you continued on being an adult leader. So what out of your experiences in Scouting is there one series of experience or experience that stands out as being just. That was the best. I really enjoyed Canada. Going up to canoeing up in Canada. Algonquin. We did it two zero six and zero nine. And really, I really enjoyed that. You got to do that along with your son. Yes. And he was a crew chief. The second time we went, that was an experience I'd never had as a Boy Scout. I went to a national jamboree, and that was a great time, and I enjoyed that. That would come in a close second to Algonquin, but Algonquin, definitely. What a great time that was. What do you look forward to? What do you look forward to doing? I want to remain active. I mean, I haven't. I certainly don't go on the number of campouts I used to because I don't have a boy going. And you have a younger daughter. And I have a daughter, so we're busy with her. Selfish part of the camaraderie. For me as an adult, the men in the troop and women are great. I just have a great time. This weekend's fantastic. Yeah. And you occasionally get to take a day off of work with the excuse that you're out helping the Scout. Exactly. Exactly. Thanks for talking with me, David. I appreciate it. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you.

He's my favorite all time boy Scout. He's my favorite favorite all time boy scout. You're my favorite all time boy scout. You're my favorite all time boy Scout. We're always on the beat boy beat boy. Dad you are always on the beat boy beat boy I'm hanging in the street boy street boy we were dancing to the feet boy beat boy yeah you're my bitter with all time boys now you're my bitter with all he's my favorite all time boy Scout. Write me a letter. Send it by mail email that is folks and here's an answer to one of your email.

So I received this email from Bill Van Zant and Bill is the Scoutmaster Troop 43 in Urbandale, Iowa. Bill says this I enjoy your podcast and the lively activity on your blog. Keep up the good work. As a newly minted Scoutmaster, I inherited a little bit of a mess. Our unit leadership elections were held in September and no youth leadership training was offered after that by the former Scoutmaster to the new young leaders. Participation from older Scouts has fallen off significantly since the election and many of them are in leadership roles. The senior patrol leader actually aged out two months into his term, so we had to have another election and I'm scrambling to get the new leadership trained and functioning as a team. The issue is this Due to poor attendance of my older youth leaders, I have younger Scouts stepping up and fulfilling in these leadership roles. One of my first year Scouts has been filling in as the Chaplain's aide for five months and was wondering if he could get credit towards his leadership requirement for his next rank advancement. Normally I would say no as he was not elected to the position. However, given the circumstances, I am leaning toward making an exception or two, but have concerns that I'd be creating a slippery slope. This must be a first in Scouting. What guidance could you offer on the subject? Bill, thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast and the information over@scoutmastercg.com I'm going to assume that you're talking about a Scout who is ready to become either Star or or Life Scout. If he's within his first year. I would imagine that would be as far as he got and the requirements for Star are While a First Class Scout, serve actively for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility or carry out a Scoutmaster assigned leadership project to help the troop Now I'm not going to read the entire list of leadership requirements, but I will note that chaplain aid is in there. There is nothing in the requirement that indicates that to fulfill that leadership requirement, a boy must be elected. So I'm not too sure whether you may have the wrong end of the stick there or not. And I see no reason to prevent him from using that towards his rank requirement. To get in depth advice about how to interpret that particular requirement doesn't need a whole lot of interpretation, does it? I mean, it's pretty clear. But if you would like to get some expanded information on that, I send you to the Guide to Advancement 2011 on page 22. There's good thorough treatment of exactly how to look at this requirement, and it deals with most of the questions that are usually asked about it, but there is no requirement that that be an elected position. Going back and looking at a couple of the things that you said earlier on in the email, this is not very unusual, Bill. This is pretty typical, actually. Sometimes scoutmasters, after they have served for a few years, make a really smooth transition to a new Scoutmaster. Sometimes, and I would say probably more often than not, it's not all that smooth that can estrange some of the older boys or the older boys can just get involved and interested in other things and they might stop showing up all that often. And if you want one of the top 10 complaints that I hear from scoutmasters, it's that older boys are sometimes a little reluctant to fill leadership roles. So as you said, you have some guys who are younger, but they've been stepping up and filling in. Well, that's great. I mean, they're excited, energized, they're juiced about it. Now, perhaps, and I want to emphasize the word perhaps, they might not have the skill and maturity of an older Scout, but if they've got the want to, I see no reason to keep them away from those leadership positions. Do you? You can go and read a recent post that Larry Geiger wrote that's on the site about dealing with experience. Do we need to wait for boys to be experienced to become leaders in a Scout troop, or do we actually want them to get the experience of being leaders? I think that would be the most succinct way of putting that. So, Bill, you're not alone. No, and neither are you. If you're out there listening and you have a similar question or difficulty, you can certainly get in touch with us and you're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.

Well, thanks for listening to this edition of the Scoutmaster Podcast. Now here's how you can keep in touch. First of all, you can read the scoutmaster blog@scoutmastercg.com and there you can receive updates by email if you'd like to subscribe. You can also subscribe to the Scoutmaster Podcast on itunes. When you do, feel free to leave a comment, a review or a rating. You can also access this podcast on your mobile device by Stitcher Smart Radio and you can get details about the how to do that@stitcher.com youm can call on any phone and leave a voicemail comment or question at 484-734-0002 and you can experience the wonders of ScoutMasterCG.com through the vast majority panorama of social media outlets. You can follow us at Scoutmaster Blog on Facebook. You can Tweet us @ScoutmasterCG on Twitter for admittance to the exclusive Scoutmaster CG Circle. Search for Scoutmaster CG on Google. Hey, if you don't do any of that Facebooky tweety Google stuff, you can email me. That's right, zoom into the late 90s and write me an email@scoutmastercgorizon.net that's scoutmastercgorizon.net all that remains is for me to remind you that the Scoutmaster Blog and the Scoutmaster Podcast are not official publications of the Boy Scouts of America, nor are they endorsed or sponsored by the Boy Scouts of America. Hey. Hey. It's just me. That's right. I have a microphone, I have a laptop, and I have a little spare time. So it's fun to lend hand to Scout leaders and have a little bit of fun along the way, we hope. Before we leave you, let's hear from our founder, Sir Robert Baden Powell. Sir Robert, good luck to you and good camping. Why, thank you, sir. Until next time.