Scoutmaster Podcast 103

And now to you, Scoutmaster. Hello, it's Todd Grady, Scoutmaster with Troop 875 in San Augustine, Florida.

Did you hear about the fire in the sporting goods store? It was intense. Get it Intense. That's it Bye. Wow, Yeah, Hey, this is podcast 103..

Hey, welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clarke Green.

Well, thank you, Todd, for calling in Todd Grady with a joke. You can do it too.

I'll let you know before the end of the podcast. It's a pretty fun experience, wouldn't you say It was intense. Get it. Yeah, All right, And we're going to move right on ahead, because I have an installment of Scoutmastership in seven minutes or less.

That's less than seven minutes, And I am so excited- I'll bet you are too, Especially if you're amongst the people who have been prescribed to listen to the podcast by some civil authority, And you must. Well, this one is less than seven minutes, Yep.

And then we've got a great email question that came in this week And I think I'm going to change. I was considering changing the title of that section to long answers to short questions.

Oh well, listen, we're going to record a Scoutmaster's panel discussion very soon. I'd like to have you be a part of it so you can call or email with your question or your comment, that or a topic suggestion for discussion, And you'll find out how to do that just at the end of the podcast.

But we got plenty of other things to do before we get there, So let's get started.

Scoutmastership. In seven minutes or less It's a clinker.

Now hands up everyone who knows who. That was Very good. Yes, I see you in the back there, Of course. That was Darren Mcgabbin in the movie the Christmas story. His character, the dad in the in the movie, does battle with the coal furnace. If you burn coal for heat you can come up with clinkers, and clinkers are kind of like this concretion of Coke- not the drink or the drug, but just a byproduct of burning coal- And it can block up the coal grate and it can put the fire out.

And I thought, wow. First of all, I love the movie and I want to have sounds from it. I like Darren Mcgabbin, you know.

So that was one reason to use this. The other reason was: is that just that's a really good illustration for some things that we hear every once in a while.

We might call them urban legends, We might call them, you know, something like that. But every once in a while you come across something in a conversation or as you're going along and scanning. It just doesn't sound right. Here's an example: A couple of scouts were discussing doing a skit and a leader. I overheard a leader say to them: no, that skit's been outlawed by national And bing that was. That was a bit of a clinker, I mean.

I, you know, I try and keep up with this stuff And I don't think that the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America outlaws skits, especially specific ones. So here's what happened, And you know, this happens all the time.

Somebody gets a little piece of information or makes a little jump of logic And then they come up with the idea that oh, oh well, I think maybe this happened, Or I think maybe that happened, Or maybe they hastily read something. I'm guilty of doing this, You are too. I'm guilty of all of this, by the way.

So this is not meant to be kind of a judgmental pronouncement, but this is meant to just talk about this sort of thing. Okay, Just let's talk about this sort of thing, Not any specific policy related statement. I'm talking about talking about them.

Is this getting confusing? I apologize if it is, but so what happens is is we'll read something quickly, or we'll read something and we'll walk away with a certain understanding of it, And then we'll go out and we'll start talking it around and then you know what happens.

Right, It's whispered down the lane, Somebody else hears it, and then somebody else hears it and pretty soon you know this kind of thing is starting to churn And people begin to take what's being said as gospel truth. I mean class A uniform, That's a good one.

Okay, Everybody knows we have a class A uniform and a class B and class C, and but there's no such a thing, not from the standpoint of the Boy Scouts of America, you know, and I'm pretty safe on this one. Okay, I've looked around and tried to find a description in any official BSA literature for a class A uniform, and now there's no such thing.

Now can you use the term Sure If it's useful for you. Fine, If some of the times you want boys wearing troop T-shirts and you want to call that class B.

You know there's a lot of you listening now and me for years. Hey, we thought there was a rule book somewhere with these kind of uniform classes described in it and you know different times for us to wear them and it was a clinker.

So how do we avoid clinkers? We have to read.

You know we can ask people with some expertise and experience. There's not these hidden agendas and ulterior motives, and you know sneaky things that maybe your district or your council or national is trying to do, and you know we have campfires and we stay up late and we jaw about stuff and we talk about.

You know what we think might be going on and possibilities, and you know here's what we really should pledge to do, and that is to get as much information as we possibly can before we make big giant decisions or we make broad policy statements about stuff. I end every one of these podcasts by saying: hey, you know this is me with a microphone. This is not officialdom speaking. I can interview people who are officials, I can read out official stuff and everything I have, but that's not to say that I have the right end of the stick all the time or that indeed there is a right end to that particular stick. There can be several different ways to go about things and scouting. That are perfectly fine Usually.

Usually we can be corrected in a spirit of brotherhood and kindness. You know it's really no big problem.

So the next time you hear something that is lending a little more heat than light to a situation next to you, hear something that's kind of putting the fire out, consider it could be a clinker. Get down there, take a look. Yep, And we're always here if you want to discuss it. Hi, this is Dr Paul Auerbach and you are listening to Clarke Green on the Scoutmaster podcast.

So I had this email from Shane Stillwell. Shane wrote in and said: Clark, this podcast is partly to credit or blame for my new position as Scoutmaster.

Okay, let me explain. I am a Cubmaster and the father of three boys. My oldest son crossed over last year about this time and I started to get involved in the troop. It didn't take long to realize that this troop of 25 Scouts was heavily adult run and didn't utilize patrols. When I say adult run, I mean Scouts weren't even present at the yearly planning meeting. They didn't use patrols in the wise that patrols were formed right before a weekend outing.

The patrol leader was then picked by the Scoutmaster and then the patrol disbanded after the outing. Well, I pushed and coaxed and prodded and suggested the use of patrols and patrol method in a boy led troop. After 10 months of this, with nothing but resistance, I came to the conclusion that my vision for scouting was not all in step with theirs.

To make a long story short, I helped organize a new troop and guess what? I'm the Scoutmaster.

We have 10 boys, only two of which have any scouting experience. If you were in my shoes, what steps would you take to bring a new troop full of green Scouts into a boy led troop?

I know it will take some time and there's no server bullet. My biggest fear is that, because I'm doing much of the instruction set of precedent, does a new troop have to be adult led for a while? I cannot begin to express in words the profound impact your blog and podcast have made on my life. You have the talent, wisdom, insight and experience and I'm grateful you freely share them. On more than one occasion you've challenged my views and won. For that.

I thank you. Well, thank you, Shane, and thank you for those kind words. I'm always glad to hear that there. I envy your role in establishing a new troop.

I've kind of mused about that in my mind at times, especially when I'm having trouble with my own troop- I think, wow, it'd be great just to get some boys together and start all over again. You know the other thing- like most things in life, being a Cubmaster and Scoutmaster and stuff like that- it's a pretty involved work and I don't think we appreciate how big a deal it really is, Not only in our lives and in the lives of the other Scouts, but especially if you're a dad and you're able to do this along with your boys.

That's a big, big deal and something you won't really realize until you know it's passed. Let me see what I can do to help you out here. I would say to all of you: any successful Scoutmaster needs three basic things: He needs vision, he needs perspective and he needs determination. He needs a clear understanding of the aims and methods of Scouting. And perspective is seeing things in, measuring progress from a boy's viewpoint, from a boy's scale, and determination is kind of sticking with the consistent application of the vision and the perspective.

I think, Shane, that you've got the vision- I mean I'm sure of that- And I think you have the determination. So let's work on the perspective a little bit. Maybe that'll help you out. You probably have some kind of a really idealized picture or idea of a boy-led troop.

Now I'm saying that because I started with that kind of a picture in mind as a young Scoutmaster. That picture was based pretty much on the first edition of the Patrol Leaders Handbook. I had a copy of that as a boy. I was never a Scout as a boy, but I had that book And in that book all the boys, they wore perfect uniforms and set up perfect campsites.

There were no photographs in the book, It was just drawings, right, And so they were further idealized. You know, the Patrol Leader said things like: come on, fellows, I think this is a great place for a hike. And that idealized look at Scouting really stuck with me And I tried to make it real as a young Scoutmaster. But I learned after a few years that I was missing the forest for the trees. There was no such thing as the Patrol. That was in that book.

I was also laboring under the mishaprehension that a Scoutmaster was in charge and responsible to instruct and lead the Scouts. Now it was really great fun for me to lead. I had a great time with it And I learned a lot And I was happy and my Scouts were happy and we had a great troop. I realized, though, that all the fun and personal growth I was experiencing as a Scoutmaster was never really intended for me. It was intended for the Scouts.

So I stopped doing what they should be doing and started helping them do it themselves. And, long story short, you know that's the way that it worked.

They weren't doing things as well as I could- not by a long shot. I think the most important aspect of this perspective that we're trying to look at is that quality of instruction, quality of leadership, the slickness of the program- that's not the outcome of Scouting. If you get those things, that's a fringe benefit. Scouting is the process of boys doing things that matter. That's what's really at the heart of things. When boys do things, they do things imperfectly and chaotically from an adult perspective, but they are doing it, and that's really what matters.

This is worth repeating. Boys doing the process of Scouting is all that really matters. The quality of their leadership, their planning and skill is not what really matters. I get a fair number of emails from Scout Leaders who truly want to transition into a boy led model and think this will take months and months and I just don't think it's so. You have a boy led troop and patrols.

When the boys lead their troop and patrols, it doesn't matter how well they lead, it's that they are in the process of Scouting. Now this thought scares the heck out of adults, especially ones with a troop full of younger Scouts. They think the process might work.

They try it out for a few weeks and the results are so uncertain and chaotic that they quickly revert to the adult led version again and they think the guy online is crazy. What they are missing is that the uncertainty and the chaos is actually what we want to see. It's proof that the process is really happening.

Now you may feel that you can't put the planning and instruction and leadership for your troop in the hands of your boys, but you really can and you really must. As time goes by you'll see them get a little better at it and within a few years you'll be a bit closer to what you've envisioned, but only through determination to stick with the vision. Your tools are coaching and mentoring and asking lots of questions. How many times have I said that You have to fully concentrate your efforts on asking lots of questions and train your Scouts in that way to think for themselves. Here's an idea. Here's an illustration.

How would you introduce a bunch of boys to the game of basketball? Would you sit them all down and start reading the NCAA rulebook to them? Nah, you wouldn't do that.

They wouldn't stand for it, would they? Now you'd start with the ball and the basket, Say: here's a ball, here's a basket.

What happens next? I don't know How, about putting the ball in the basket? Oh, They'd try a few shots.

Maybe they'd make some, or maybe they wouldn't, But they'd be pretty fascinated with the idea, wouldn't they? And then you could introduce the idea of dribbling.

Hey, you know, when you walk with the ball, you have to dribble it. Oh, really, Yeah, that's how it works.

Oh, okay, Let them try that out for a while. And after they've been dribbling and going up and down the court, they might need to learn a little bit about the double dribble, about traveling.

You could introduce the idea of two teams and then rules for offensive and defensive play. So what you'd be doing is moving from some very simple concepts to more complex ones Over time. You'd have a team that could play other teams that maybe win a game or two, but it would be a while before they really understood the game, Before they really appreciated what was going on.

So you start a team. It takes a while to get them to the point where they can play and they get beat every time.

So here's another piece of perspective. Why are they playing the game?

Just to pass time? Just to learn something new, to become, you know, national champions? No, they're playing the game because the act of playing itself is sufficient for them to reap rewards. They're playing the game because the act of playing itself is sufficient for them to get something out of it. I mean, at least they're going to get a little more physically fit. If they're playing a game of basketball, Maybe they'll learn a little bit about strategy and teamwork, Maybe they'll learn a little bit about leadership.

Playing the game is in itself sufficient for them to reap rewards. Scouting is exactly the same. It's not focused on outdoor skills, It's not focused on slick, military-like precision, It's not focused on anything but the process, And boys who go through the process of scouting gain advantages that they may not understand or appreciate at the time, that their parents may not understand or appreciate at the time, but they're going to get something out of it. Another piece of that boy perspective is the amount of information they can effectively handle at any given time. Like I said, I wouldn't teach boys to play basketball by starting out with the NCAA Rule Book, which is a pretty thick book, by the way.

I mean, you could set up an all-day event where you're going to read it to them and maybe you'll make a PowerPoint presentation and you know, but they're going to check out after the first half hour. No matter how excited and motivated they are, they're going to check out.

I think the better approach, especially from the boy perspective- short periods of instruction followed by long periods of hands-on practice. That seems to be what works, especially with younger scouts.

So that's a piece of the perspective that I would encourage you to think about. So, Shane, let's take all this and we'll put it in really practical terms. One: stop leading and instructing, Just stop doing it. Number two: ask your scouts what they want to do next.

Get to your next meeting, say, hey, guys, you know I had some things planned, but what would you like to do next? And then ask them how they think that whatever they want to do will happen. Ask them who will make it happen. Ask them what they think you could do to help them make it happen. Maybe Ask them what they're going to need, ask them how they're going to plan it. Just keep the questions coming.

Don't talk them to death. Give them a chance to act and do what they're going to do. Observe that and encourage the least expression of initiative and skill, Just even the little glimmer in the dark of initiative and skill, and build on those expressions by asking more questions. Hey, you seem to be really good at that. You really know how to do those knots.

Have you learned any new ones lately? Do you know where you could find out how to learn more?

Have you taught anybody how to do that? Does teaching that satisfy any requirements for any of the ranks that you're working on? I mean, once you get into the habit of asking questions, you're going to find that it's a very natural thing. The boys are going to respond to it and they're going to keep learning.

Occasionally you're going to have to make corrections, little course corrections, here and there. You do that by asking more questions.

Guys, what are we up to right now? How is this benefiting us?

How is this making us good scouts? Is there something that you might be doing that might be more beneficial at this point in time. Get them to think about it Now. The determination to follow this vision and follow this perspective in the absence of all evidence that it's working is important. I'm laughing, I mean, because this is a real key. The determination to follow your vision from this perspective in the absence of all evidence that it's working is important.

Part of that determination will come from seeing it work, and you know you haven't seen that yet. So watch for these small indications from a boys' perspective, and it'll become more and more determined as the time goes by. I hope that helps, Shane, and once again, thank you for your kind words. Thanks for getting in touch. If you'd like to get in touch if you have a question, you're going to find out how to do that in just a moment.