Scoutmaster Podcast 101

And now to you scoutmasters.

At camp, while I served on staff there, the cook was always the one that got chosen first for any of the baseball games when we made up teams. You know why? He always made the best batter. Ouch. Ouch. Hey. This is podcast number 101.

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster podcast. This is Clark Green. So all your letters of protest and complaints about the joke is just heard. I will forward to Bill McFarlane, who contributed it to the Scoutmaster podcast. Thank you, Bill. In the mailbag this week. It's a big mailbag this week. And so here we go. Will Hensman wrote in to say, Happy 100th, Clark. Can't wait for more. Great. Top 10. I'm guilty of at least seven out of 10. And that goes back to most of these messages. Go Back to our 100th podcast last week, and we started out with the top 10 reasons. You may be listening to the Scoutmaster podcast a little too much. So you might want to go back and hear that. If you haven't heard that, let's see. Howard Jones from Troop 570 in West Springfield, Massachusetts, said, What a great milestone. 100 podcasts. Congrats. You seem to be channeling a mix of Gene shepherd and Green Bar Bill. Well, geez, Howard, that's a nice thing to say. Oh, about retelling your jokes around a campfire? I need to be clear. I didn't tell the penguin joke. I look forward to the next 100. All the best. And we're not going to even discuss the penguin joke again, are we? Boy, you got to go back a ways for that. So, Howard, thanks for being a longtime listener. Larry Geiger said, Happy 100th Clark. I love the music. So much fun. More Maynard Ferguson, please. Well, Larry, you'll be happy with this podcast then. And you're all going to hear Larry in a little while. Peter LaRue, my buddy from over in South Africa, said, congratulations, Clark. I look forward to many more podcasts. Steve Borger from Melrose Troop 68, who has a podcast himself, said, Congratulations on podcast 100. Jeff Pearson said, Congratulations on number 100. I have enjoyed them all and look forward to many more. The Netcomish now, if you're not familiar with their website, it's the USSSP website that is the United States Scouting Service Project website. Said, I just put a recommendation out to our Facebook readers to have a listen to your podcast. Well, thank you so much. Adam Cox wrote in and said, congratulations. I've downloaded podcast number 100 for my trip home tomorrow. Blaise Vitali wrote in. Congratulations. I've gotten lots of great advice from these podcasts. I scored four of your top 10 signs. Brian Spellman said. Congrats. Been listening since the start. Keep them coming. And Brian is one of the presenters for Scout Nation Podcast. He also has a blog out there and Brian's out there in Indiana if I remember correctly. Thanks, Brian. Kyle Ryle got in touch and he said, keep those great podcasts coming. Clark, I've recommended your site and podcast to many scouters in my area. Hope some of it rubs off. Folks, if you do have a problem with podcasts rubbing off on anything, just use a stiff wire brush and maybe a little diluted muriatic acid to remove any residue. But yeah, seriously. Now the remainder of podcast number 101 is taken up with a Scoutmaster panel discussion and we're going to be discussing Scoutmaster conferences and then we're going to move on to a new calling question about how do you maintain the integrity of youth leadership while making sure that things actually get done? That is one of the perennial questions in scouting, isn't it? I hope we'll be able to come up with some good advice for you. So that's going to fill the rest of the podcast. It was a long Scoutmaster panel discussion this time, so this is a extra long podcast. I hope you'll enjoy it. And it's going to be all that much longer if I don't get things started. So let's get started, shall we? A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. A Scout is trustworthy, oil, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean.

Time for another Scoutmaster panel discussion. Join us as a team of experienced veteran Scoutmasters weigh in on your important questions.

Welcome back to the Scoutmaster panel discussion. And hey, we've got the same lineup. We've got the great team assembled here. We've got Tom Gillard, who's down in Tullahoma, Tennessee. How you doing, Tom? Very good. How are y'? All? Oh, doing great. And Larry Geiger is down there in Viera, Florida. Hey, Larry. Happy New Year, Clark. Walter Underwood's out there in Santa Clara, California, overlooking the Silicon Valley. I understand. How you doing, Walter? Doing good. It's enough sunset here. The first thing I was curious about, we just got finished going through rechartering and we did the journey to Excellence. I was just curious about the units that you guys are involved with. Did you guys look at the journey to excellence thing yet. This is Tom. Yes, we've looked at it and planned to participate in it and we're a march unit, so we've still got a little bit of time to finish that up. My committee is working on it, the committee chairman, but I haven't been involved with it. My committee chair and scoutmaster are looking at it. I did look over it when it first came out and I really like the, the achievements on it and I expect we'll be at the gold level for my quick tally. Yeah, we actually struck out. We struck out totally. We're nothing. We didn't even make the bronze level. But you know, what it was principally is that we have so many adults on the charter who are not fully trained that that's what really tipped it for us. We had very soft membership numbers this past year, but the fact that we had a lot of legacy adults on the charter without training is what really knocked it off for us. Well, just a heads up there, Clark. Our council is prototyping the new charter process and sometime in the future, national is going to require every leader to be trained for their position. And our council's already doing that well, but they're also adding the college reserve position so you don't have to register your college guys as ASNs. Last year when the mandatory youth protection training was instituted, we had 60 adults on our charter and it was mostly people who had been involved at one time who wanted to keep involved with the troop. And they just recharted habitually from year to year and then we ended up with about 40 this year. But we're looking at establish alumni association asking people to become a member of that. You know, these were people who had absolutely no interchange with the troop basically throughout the year. They just wanted to stay associated with it. Now, like we've got some that are like yours. They, they want to be registered. They were in the troop years ago, but we don't. We see them once a year when they hand us a check. And would they be better off to go through the district if that's the, the case with this training stuff? They. I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know the answer to that, Tom. Anybody else got any ideas about that? Well, the district people are going to have to be trained too. Yes. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. No, I like the idea of an alumni, you know, scout network, some kind of thing where you can stay in touch as kind of a Scout friend without being an official with a registered leader. Yeah, I'M very supportive of the idea of the mandatory training requirement that's been rumored for a long time. I'm definitely supportive of the idea of the youth protection training being mandatory. It's just like I said two years ago, 60 adults. This year, 40. This coming year. It will be a much more realistic number. I mean, It'll be around 15 or 20. The committee is already working on getting them trained and making sure that we have everything ready to go when we get ready to do this journey to excellence next time. We're pretty young troops. These troops that have been around forever. I can see that's going to be a problem down. And I'm not just talking about Scouts that have moved on, but you have adults that stay registered, but they're not really active. I like the college registration instead of the assistant Scoutmaster because that that puts them where they really need to be. That was a real good idea. That helped us with about four or five guys. The first of the year has come and gone. And that means that there's been a couple of changes to the advancement materials that we work with. And Walter, you work with your district on Eagle Scouts. What's changed about Eagle Scout stuff? Well, we have a one word change to the requirement for the project, which now requires a proposal rather than a plan to be approved. And the definition of a proposal or the details of proposal are laid out in the new also require workbook, which is really, I think, much easier for gives a lot more guidance to the candidate. The Advancement resources page@scouting.org has both the new guide to advancement and the new Eagle Project workbook. And of course you always use the latest Eagle application. So all that is there. We'll point everybody to that. If you go to scoutmastercg.com and you find the post that contains this podcast, it'll have a link to the page that we're mentioning here. Have you actually approved a project using the new book yet? I will be doing one this Saturday. We had two Scouts that are getting ready to. We're getting ready to proposed their work, their project. And I went ahead in November and shifted them to the new workbook because I knew they weren't going to start it till this year anyway. It's pretty straightforward because it is a proposal. They still have to understand what they're going to be doing, but it seems to be a little easier for the district to put their blessing on it. I think it is. I also used it to explain to another Scout the kind of things of detail that's expected for A plan, because they still have to do a plan. The planning is part of their leadership and that's evaluated by the EGLE board, which is proper. But looking at the new one, it was much easier for him to see what he needed to write down in the old one. Yeah, it gives spaces for just. For lots and lots of information. Let me just make sure I've got it. The new guide to Advancement. What's in that now is in effect officially. The new Eagle Project workbook is now what you must use for any projects that get proposed from this point on. Walter, did I understand that there's a new application too? Yeah, so actually the new application, I'm sure, has the new wording for requirement five, which is what would be different. That's our best understanding. Remember, none of us are spokesman for the bsa. That's just our best understanding. But we'll have a link to the official website where you can get a look at this too. One of the things that I get a lot of questions about, and we have lots of discussions about him. One of the things that's been clarified in the new guide to advancement is the Scoutmasters Conference. And I thought it would be interesting just to talk a little bit about that. I think a successful Scoutmasters Conference is reasonably easy to understand. You sit down with a Scout just. It's just a real good way to get to know who they are and to see how the program is affecting them. Is there anything that you guys have used as far as what you speak with a Scout about and the kind of the tenor of the conversation? You hit it pretty close to the way I do it. Just use it as a time to, like you say, to get to know them and for them to know you. And it shouldn't be a scary thing for them. I think one of the important things is that it's a time for an adult to listen to them seriously. So, you know, you need to really listen and it's your big chance to find out how things are going for that Scout. I also use it as a time for. To make sure that there's some kind. Some bits of orientation, like, you know, if for a Scout, for a new Scout, you know, here's how boards review work, here's how the ranks work. And then especially for someone who's finishing up first class, I ask them what they want to do to help the troop, what kind of things do they like to do? And they've got all the basic Scout skills now they're ready. I always ask Scouts, I kind of get little things going. For instance, one thing I always do is I ask them to pick out two things they've done in the last week or two that illustrate the Scout oath or the Scout law. People say conferences should be real short, like 10 minutes. I've never had a 10 minute conference. I've never had one less than 20 minutes. And we just sit around and chat. Even maybe Tenderfoot, I've had some almost that short. Well, do y' all treat Scoutmaster conferences as a one time thing or do you have multiples, like little tweaks between main steps, main ranks? It's not an official for a rank, but it's just a little course correction conference. Y' all do that? Yeah, I end up doing that. Especially with guys in positions of responsibility as a matter of course, we discuss things. But then every once in a while, if there's a care or concern that I have about the way things are going or, and I'm trying to get better at this, if they've done something that I think is particularly laudable and I want to congratulate them on that, I try and take that a couple of minutes. I never put up a flag that says this is a Scoutmasters conference. They're kind of stealth conferences. Right, right. Just sort of a spur of the moment thing. One of my more interesting Scoutmaster conferences happened just a couple of months ago. I had a Scout who'd been in the troop for several months and was ready to do his Tenderfoot Scoutmaster conference. And he came to the Scoutmasters conference. He had his handbook and he had a hunk of rope and he had a pocket knife and a compass and a map and a whole bunch of stuff. And I didn't. I know, and I didn't really say anything. I just kind of said one of the things that I always like to ask, especially of the newer boys, is I said, what's your favorite subject in school? And that kind of gives me an idea of what's going on in their head. And so we talked for a little while and I said, you know, my last question is usually, do you have any questions for me? I asked him that. I said, do you have any questions for me? He said, no, I don't think so. And I said, well, we're done. By the way, I don't know if you understood it, but once somebody has signed a requirement off in your book, you know, we expect that, you know, the skill and we're not necessarily going to retest you on it at a Scoutmasters conference. I said, does that make this whole thing a little bit easier. And he was quite pleased at that point. The new guide to advancement is very clear that you cannot pass or fail a conference. You talk to a Scout, that's a conference. Yeah. That takes a lot of pressure off of everybody, doesn't it? I really do enjoy Scoutmaster conferences. I enjoy sitting and talking with boys. I don't know how much they enjoy it. Well, it never said pass or fail before. Did was just the fact that some Scoutmasters treated it as a pass or fail. Is that where all this came from? I think it was a pretty common misconception from questions that I get. And I think sometimes Scout leaders use the fact that they need to put a signature in the book as a way to hold a boy back or to deny him moving forward. Well, it's been the whole thing about the quality, I'll put that in quotes, of the Scouting instruction. If the first aid requirement isn't as well learned as an adult EMT specialist, then we haven't done our job. And that's just not the point. But some adults can't let go of that. But that's not what we're there for. I mean, a lot of people are used to this kind of way that school works, where you hand in an assignment and you get graded on it or you have a test or something like that, and everything gets quantified. And one group that sometimes doesn't make real good Scout leaders is teachers because they have a hard time letting go of that. Scouting is just different that way. It's like, I guess Clark said before, they always default to the adult, and it's hard for them to get outside the box because of the adults, sometimes to do their own thinking. Well, my sense when I was speaking with the guys who had worked on the advancement God was that this was a pretty perennial difficulty in talking with people all over the country. One of the common threads through every single panel discussion we've had is that, you know, whether you're in Pennsylvania or Florida or Tennessee or. Where the heck are you up, Walter? I'm sorry, California. There's not a whole lot of difference. The weather might be a little different, but what we're doing is we're all experiencing a lot of the same stuff. Now, I asked my guys skill things, and I asked him requirements from Tenderfoot second class and first class, but it's pretty clear in the troop Tenderfoot Scout doesn't know it. It's not his fault. Because over and over again I asked the Scouts who's Responsible for Tenderfoot second class and first class requirements, advancement. And all the older Scouts look at me and roll their eyes and say, we are. And then I ask them, who's responsible for star life and eagle advancement. They roll their eyes again and go, we are again. We're responsible for everything. You know, they get that kind of attitude after a while. But if the Scout doesn't know his first aid, it's not his fault. It's the patrol leader and instructor, and it's their fault. And after a while, they. They start to get the message. But if I go to the SPL and say, hey, I had a kid. He didn't know, and I usually won't say what his name is. I'll just say he wasn't real sure about this hypothermia, hyperthermia, or whatever business. Maybe you want to. I do something similar, Larry, because I usually pick out a requirement out of whichever rank I'm doing a conference for. I ask a little bit about that requirement, and then if he doesn't know it, I note whoever signed him off on that. And then I go to them and I have a little discussion with them. I say, you know, he wasn't very clear about this. Maybe he was when you signed him off. And that tends to keep them all on their toes as well. Well, I tell the Scout, I say, if you don't know how to tie this knot. I said, well, how would you resolve that? You know, it said in your requirement, you know, that he's like, well, maybe I, you know, Edge, maybe I need to, you know, I've been instructed. Maybe I need to go practice somewhere. Okay, there we go. So, you know, then he takes responsibility for it. Right. Well, do you know the lead teach and inspire during Scoutmaster conference? I'll ask them what their job in the troop is, and they'll say, oh, I'm quartermaster. I said, no. Oh, what's your job? I'm quartermaster. And, you know, about the third time, they. They realize that there's something else. And I go, it's three words. And they go, oh, oh. And they lead. And I said, right. So, you know, that's their job. That other thing is their position. So I'm trying to get that through to them also. Let me ask you this just as a closing question. Has anybody here ever turned a boy away from a scoutmasters conference and said that you before can sign this off? No, I need you to do thus. And so probably three or four times out of hundreds of conferences for Tenderfoot, I've had The guys, if they didn't know their oath in law, they didn't have it memorized. Then I asked them if they'd come back next week and get it right. And I've never had a scout in the past that didn't come back with it right. I've done the same thing and it's never or never turned them away totally for anything. I've never turned anyone away for a conference, though. We had a serious conference with a scout myself and ASM about who had really hadn't done anything in his position. And so we talked about that and worked harder on his next position and we had another conference, but I mean, I would have signed for either of those. We had the conference. It was the position he didn't do. Whenever I have asked to continue a Scoutmasters conference, it's not that, you know, oh, you failed this one. We'll start again someday. It's, hey, you know, there's a couple things to address here and we'll continue as soon as you've taken care of them. And let's make sure you know where the resources are to take care of that, what you need to do and, and everything. So it's usually a pretty easy going kind of thing and it shouldn't make a Scout feel put upon or feel bad about what they're doing, but it's an encouragement just to get whatever loose ends need to be tied up tied up now. You know, I've always had the guys have uniforms. I don't know that I would ever turn a scout away that doesn't have a full uniform. You know, some guys don't, but if they have a uniform and they don't wear it when they know that they have a conference or a board, I'm struggling with that one just a little bit. It hasn't come up yet. So this is my interpretation. There's some things in the guide that are aimed at preventing people from torturing Scouts. You know, you may have a way of doing things that's not being obstructionist or difficult, probably just totally in line with the philosophy behind everything. I think that the wording now is very distinct about things like requiring a uniform. I think if you look at it very, if you just read what it says, what you walk away with is, okay, you know, we're just not going to make a federal case out of things like this anymore. We're going to, we're going to work on the positive end of things. And that's what you're already doing. But some of this new Language may be a little unsettling that way. I read it, as you know, our responsibility is to help them achieve these things and not to stand in the way. And I don't know how many times I've seen our SPL loan a belt to a Scout that's about to go into a board of review. Well, we've getting back to Larry's, like, the Scout has a uniform. You know, he does and he wants a board of review. And you, we have asked, well, can you, can we do this next week when you can come in uniform? And he goes, sure, you work with them and if they can be in uniform, that's good and they know they should be. Yeah, I think if you go over to ask Andy and you go through his columns or you look at my email inbox, some days people involved in scouting out there just have got the wrong end of the stick on some of this stuff. And that's why I welcome some of the statements in the new guide to advancement so heartily, is because hopefully over time it'll prevent people from being that way. So joining us on the Scoutmaster podcast is Andre Crawford. And Andre is an assistant ScoutMaster with Troop 234 in Hiker Heights, Texas. How you doing, Andre? I'm doing well, sir. Here's my question. Maintaining the boy led, boy run, adult supervised concept. How can we as leaders ensure that we're close enough to what's going on to make sure that things are being properly planned and thought out, but still far enough with drawn that the boys are actually making the plans and decisions for themselves? And I think when I first joined the troop, I'm about a year in, so I'm still getting my feet wet. And it's a whole other world from Cub Scouting. How can I know where to be with relationship to what's going on so that I can make sure things are being done correctly? Not just me, but the other leaders, but at the same time still be far enough away to maintain that, that boy led concept. Give me an example of something that didn't go well. We had, we have way here, Texas, in our area. We have the Highland game and it's a huge event. There's troops from everywhere and you ever seen a four hour breakfast? I've been to many of them. You know, they missed, they missed the first two hours of the games because, you know, instead of there being a cook and someone on taper duty and everyone else doing either hygiene or airing out their tents, you had eight boys at every checkbox. Okay. It was Absolute. You know, those. Those plans weren't put into place. There weren't any assignments made. You're doing this, you're doing that. We have to be done by this time. There was no sign schedule, and it was absolute chaos the entire week. Yeah. Okay. And that's good. That's really, really good. Sorry. But the question is. The question is, is how did they feel about that? Did they feel motivated by missing part of that? No. Okay. No, they really didn't. Okay. So that's a problem in your mind, but not in their mind. Your troop may just not want to do that stuff, because once you're walking behind them and they're going somewhere, you'll know that you're on that path. You'll see it right in front of you. It'll just happen. They'll all blossom. They'll take that path and they'll go backpacking or canoeing, or they'll go to one of these events and it'll just happen. You will know. Maybe they like spending four hours on breakfast. Well, yeah, maybe they had a good time and they want to do that again. It could be hard to watch the second time or the third time. I noticed you said something about getting them set up for success, but that's not. That's not how I think of it. I get them set up with opportunities to lead, which means they have opportunities to fail. And so that's, you know, that's. They're gonna fail. That's a. That's a normal thing. Right. And that was the second part of my. Of my question. You know, where I made statement, you know, is if. If they. If they properly plan something and they do fail, well, that's okay. They're gonna learn from that. But if we as leaders don't make sure. And I don't mean. I don't mean in a way is like, okay, you know, our senior patrol leader, I look at him and I say, you know, Billy. And that's not his name, but, you know, did you make a caper chart? Do you have your assignments? Do you have your schedule? To me, I think it's more of when they start planning this event, you kind of steer them in that direction by asking maybe a question, hey, what meeting are you guys going to do your grub lists and stuff? That kind of thing. And then it puts it in their mind that, oh, yeah, we have to do that. And then. And then you just kind of, you know, you don't push any further than that. Right. Do you have a form? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They Use. They have all of the forms. Menu planning form. Yes, they have the mini planning form and all of that. It's just. I guess. I guess it's frustrating. Are there some patrols that use it and some that don't? No, they pretty much. They pretty much all use it. We have two patrols that are, you know, two months into scouting and. And they have to. They each have a troop guide, and they're doing very well. The troop guides are keeping them on track. Well, I'll have to say we describe it. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, we don't have menu planning forms, and I just can barely ever get our guys to use duty rosters, but they managed to eat on every campout. Well, Andre, it's. It's extremely painful to watch what you're. What you're talking about, because we're going through the same thing. The last senior patrol leader was a little young and inexperienced and tried to point him in the right direction, and things didn't get done. And it's very frustrating. But we helped them as much as we could. But then it was up to them to carry out the plans and do what they wanted to do, which tended to be nothing, to some extent. We've got a new senior patrol leader now. There were elections, and he saw. He was frustrated about the whole thing, and things have changed, and they're doing. He's doing that. He's doing the change. Yeah, that's. I mean. Okay, so Tom is right now where you want to be? Because Tom is seeing the change. Exactly. As a leader, what can I do without crossing that. That line that it's got to be in a different place for every boy, which is really frustrating to me. Do you have junior leader training? You have. We do have training. Do you think it's effective? Teenage boys being what teenage boys are, I would say they maybe retain 20 to 30% of it. We did our training, and I don't think the scoutmasters talked for more than maybe an hour of it. It was led by spl, by his aspls, and focused on things that we needed to, you know, he felt like the leaders needed to learn. Okay. We just did the new jlt, and I think you and I. Clark had talked about it. It gives them the opportunity, the resources to understand what they need to do, but not the experience. So now they have to use what they learn to experience the planning and everything, which there, again, it hurts to watch them do this. One of the most important things to understand, Andre, is you are by no means alone. Oh, no, I know that. I've got three other Assistant Scout masters standing right next to me with the same. So I'm well aware that the frustration is not all mine. It's very spread across the country. Yeah. Not just the troop. Yeah. That times 100,000. And you're getting an idea. I think what we have to do sometimes to really stop and ask ourselves what's actually happening there. We see chaos and craziness and we see a four hour breakfast and it's distressing and it's difficult and we feel that in some way we are failing because the boys just don't have it together. Very good. If you get on their level and you start to see it through their eyes, they see something totally different. They may see a well oiled machine and they may see they're having a whole lot of fun with their buddies and stuff like that. And there's going to be a couple of guys in that group who this is rubbing them the wrong way and they think that they can do it better and they're a little aggravated with the whole thing. And those guys are your next patrol leaders. Those guys are the ones who are going to take the reins of things. I think that a reasonable expectation for us to have and within the process of youth leaders really taking a hand in things and really making things happen. I think the fastest I've ever seen that happen is at least a year's worth of cajoling and training and working with them and coaching them and mentoring them through a process over about a year's time. And then they become really competent. I've rarely seen it happen sooner than that. Once they become competent, it's time for them to move on to a more challenging position. So you always have people who are learning on the job and making mistakes as the leaders in the troop. It's a normal thing. One of the goals, my goals when I was a scoutmaster just starting out was to get our outings planning on a more formal basis, more of a timeline. And we'd had this decided by then and. And that took about four years. But this year at the training, one of our Scouts presented how we do it to the rest of the patrol leaders council. So now it's there, now it's working, but it could take forever. I'm going to expand on Andre's question a little bit. Is there a circumstance where you do kind of blow the whistle and stop the play? Is there a set of circumstances that you see Scouts, a patrol of Scouts or a troop of Scouts where you do actually need to step in and to make a change. If it falls outside the guide to safe Scouting, then definitely. So any kind of safety related thing, you do have to step right in. And anything unsafe, it's immediate. Right. And what about, I mean, how far into chaos and disorder do we let the boys descend before we stop them? I think that almost never happens with a normal, average group of scouts. They kind of know what Scouting's about. I think that happens when you get one or two guys that are leading in the wrong way and it's actually heading towards mischievousness or worse. So you have to watch that. But that's not very common. Most scouts know why they're there. Normally if they're in charge and they're uniformed and they're doing scouting, they're tying knots, they're camping normally, they're inside the bounds of kind of where you want them to be. Let me ask you a question. Did you always feel that way or was there a point in being a scoutmaster early on where it really bothered you? Actually, for me mostly, no, there really wasn't a point. It still bothers me and I've got to bite my tongue. I'm right there with you, Tom and Andre. It still is a difficult thing to watch, isn't it? Watch these guys build a campfire. It's just painful. Andre, is this helping at all? Yeah, absolutely. You guys are giving me lots of things to think about. You know, maybe, you know, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way and spend a lot more time closely observing them and trying to see things, you know, from their point of view and seeing are they having fun rather than, you know, you know, is this, is this efficient? Is this the way it's supposed to be? Are they doing it the way they want to do it and is it happening? Yeah. Our winter camping is snow. And so that's an instance where some of the planning is the adults participate in. Like you really have to have enough food, you have to have fuel. That's a safety issue for that. But we still do as much as possible, have the boys do as much as possible. And Andre, let me, let me mention that while he's talking about that, the best way to get by that is to, is to encourage them, through your leadership, to put themselves in a position where they're going to need that training. And that's camping in the snow, that's canoeing, that's backpacking, that's something like that, where they, they are going to have to make some plans. I think, I think you're right. Larry? I think when they have to do something that is really physically challenging, and I think backpacking is a good, a good example. If you're not prepared to go backpacking the right way, you just have a miserable time. It may not be dangerous or anything like that. It's just kind of miserable. That kind of an intense challenge often shakes them out a little bit. Hey, Andre, are you doing stuff like that? Are y' all backpacking? Well, they, they did do a canoe trip last year. We did it. They did a 30 miler. How'd you feel about that event? It was seamless. I mean, it was a great event. I think it took them away, you know, they're more than a hundred yards from the car, you know, and I think, I think that sometimes changes the mentality, a different mode of thinking. So maybe you need a little bit more of that to challenge. To me, it seems like once they get out and away from that, you know, it does, it does something to their, to their, their outlook on things. When the alternative is being miserable, they will usually find a way not to be miserable. Doesn't, Doesn't a lot of this fall under the. Ask lots and lots of questions beforehand and kind of kind of work them through this so that it looks like it's coming from them. That's kind of what I was thinking I needed to be doing, was just asking a lot of questions and putting the thought in their mind that, oh, yeah, we need to do that. No, we didn't do this. You know, there was another thing that I have adopted once I heard Larry say it. What it's turned into is a very quick way for me to be able to talk to my youth leaders briefly and to put them back on track. Larry, what's the mission of all the youth leaders in a scout troop? Lead, train, and inspire Scouts to achieve first class rank. I'm using that too. Uh oh, I've got them inculcated with that now. And when they're headed off the rails, when I see the chaos coming on and I see that they're going to miss out on something, I can very quietly ask them what their mission is, and it puts them right back on the track. If they don't get it right off, I ask them questions. How are they achieving that mission right now? Helps them think their way through. So I really don't tell them anything. I just ask them enough questions to get them to discover for themselves what they should be up to. I'm glad to see that I'm kind of thinking along the correct Line mentoring and asking questions. That's your job. And particularly to the older Scouts. One of my favorite questions is to my older Scouts is, what's going on right now? You know, if I ask them what's happening right now, that is usually an indication that something should be happening that isn't. Say, look, I don't want to take this over. I want you to lead those guys. Look at those little huibles over there. You know, how are they getting there? And ask them that. You know, just kind of challenge them with that. Say, those guys are yours. That's their job. Do you go about that any differently tomorrow? That's the way I'm trying to do it. And it works sometimes, and then again, it doesn't. Like I said, the new senior patrol leader has been frustrated with the way things were going, and he has started engaging the patrol leaders and just the members at large. Whenever you get frustrated like that, grab one or two of the little guys and open their books and say, hey, you know, what do you need from second class here? And they go, well, I need this, this, and this. Say, have you talked to your patrol leader? We have one meeting a month is a patrol meeting, and that's not at the norm. You know, they've got to arrange where that is. And so the patrol leader has no choice but to find a place and run a meeting. You know, with the edge requirement in the. Was it life requirement. Now, that gives them, most of them, plenty of opportunity to turn around and give back to the younger Scouts. And it's a requirement, so, you know, they've got to do it at least once. I think there's a lot of good advice there, guys, and some real good thoughts. Andre, is there. Is there anything else we can do for you? Any other questions we can answer for you at this point? Probably go on for five or ten more sessions, so probably not want to get into that. I would like to say to everybody for taking the time to discuss this with me and sharing some of your advice and your experience. You've really given me a lot to think about and even affirm some of the things I'm doing right. Maybe some of the things I need to relook. And I really do appreciate your time. Well, we really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us, Andrew. Before Andre goes, his and Larry's definition of winter camping is different from yours and mine. Winter camping is when it. When it might dip down into the 30s or something, right? We just went through 18. One of our snow camping trips. It got up to 55 up in the snow. It was lovely and it was colder back where we live. I'm not even going to mess with you guys. It was, you know, mid-70s today, and that's, you know, normal for this time of year. I went to school in Houston, so I've. I'm familiar with that kind of weather. Okay, exactly. Talking about, hang in with these guys, you and your leaders. It's. It's tough sometimes, and it can happen and you will know it when it does. So it sounds like he's. He's had glimpses of it. He is getting glimpses of it through some of the camping trips we was talking about. We had a lot of events that go, you know, really well, and then there's just train wrecks. So, you know, I think it's there. It's just not always there, apparently. Keep having train wrecks because that means they're doing it well. It absolutely means that the adults aren't stepping in to save them every other time. Yeah. I always tell visiting Cub parents that if it looks like the meeting's being run by amateurs, then it's a Scout meeting and it's being done. Right. Well, thanks again, Andre. Thank you, guys. Well, listen, we've gone a bit over. Have we left anything out or is there anything else that anybody wanted to hear? You have a new granddaughter. I've been trying not to let that get out. I saw the picture. Congratulations. I appreciate the congratulations. Thanks, fellas, for helping us out again with the Scoutmaster panel discussion. We look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks a lot, Tom. You're welcome, Clark. Good night. And Larry, thank you. You're welcome, Clark. Walter, it's been a pleasure. Is it dark in Silicon Valley now? The sun has gone down. I can see the lights heading down the highway. All right, well, thanks again, gentlemen, and we'll talk to you again soon. Good night. Night. Good night.

Well, thanks once again for listening to the Scott Master podcast. Here's how you can keep in touch. First, you can read the scoutmaster blog@scoutmastercg.com there you can subscribe to receive updates by email. You can also subscribe to the Scoutmaster podcast on itunes. You can also access the podcast on your mobile device through Stitcher Smart Radio. You can get details about that@stitcher.com youm can call and leave a voicemail comment or question at this number, 484 734-0002. You can experience the wonders of ScoutMasterCG.com for the vast panorama of social media outlets that's right. You can follow us at Scoutmaster Blog on Facebook, tweet ScoutMasterCG on Twitter, and for admittance to the exclusive Scoutmaster CG Circle search for Scoutmaster CG on Google. Hey, if you don't face, you don't face tweet and you don't plus that's okay, bunky. You can email me Clark Green with your comments and questions and wild ideas@scoutmastercgorizon.net the Scoutmaster Blog and the Scoutmaster Podcast are not official publications of the Boy Scouts of America, nor are they endorsed or sponsored by the Boy Scouts of America. No, it's just me talking into a microphone, trying to lend a hand to Scout leaders and perhaps have a little bit of fun along. Before we leave you today, we're going to hear from our founder, Sir Robert Baden Powell. Sir Robert Good luck to you and good champion. Why, thank you, sir. Until next time.