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Patrol Choice Chart PDF FILE
I am often asked about how patrols are formed, who does the choosing and how the choices are made. Scouts do the choosing and one way for them to choose is using the chart above (open the PDF file to see the chart in detail).
To divide a group of Scouts into patrols each is given a slip of paper and asked to write his name at the top and circle it – then he writes the name of three Scouts he would like to have in his patrol. The senior patrol leader collects the papers and makes a chart like the one above that records each Scout’s choices.
The chart highlights Scouts who have chosen each other and shows how they are divided into three patrols. Most Scouts end up in a patrol where they have two or three friends but every Scout gets to be in a patrol with at least one other Scout he has chosen and who has chosen him back.
I populated the example chart randomly and it was fairly easy to select patrol members. The senior patrol leader will be able to use his knowledge of his Scouts (which should be kept apart and who works well together) to inform the choices he makes.
We’ve used this method many, many times with very good results. The senior patrol leader is free to adjust patrol membership in response to the Scout’s preferences or when he thinks it will solve a problem. I have found that the senior patrol leader usually knows much more than I about these issues and makes better choices than I ever could; besides it’s his responsibility in the first place.
Larry–They have been doing that, BUT I have provided a list of topics or things to do-I wanted done-for the troop meetings. So I left it all to them aqnd that’s what they came up with. We have one parents that wants to start Cit in Nation one night and another who’s going to follow up on Personal FItness. I thought I would have a discussion with the SPL as to where they wanted to go? Any other suggestions other than jumping in and taking over.
Doug
Hi Doug
“they have a game night every night”. Ah yes. 🙂
1. Are they getting their business done?
2. Are they preparing for campouts? Making menus? Gathering supplies? Are they setting up opportunities for advancement on the campouts? Axe yard? Patrol Cooking? Are they making any challenging meals? Are they hiking/mapping/compassing on the campouts? First Aid? Do the Scouts unpack and repack the trailer? Do they load their gear into the pick up truck or do the leaders do this?
3. Are Scouts advancing? Are the older/leaderhship/First Class Scouts working with the Tenderfoots? Do the younger Scouts have a time when they feel comfortable working with their Patrol Leader or an Instructor? How much advancement is good? Does the PLC understand the reasoning behind becoming First Class during a Scouts first year or year and a half?
4. Are they making plans for and implementing activities? Camporees? Training for competitions at camporees? Building gateways? Scouting for Food? Popcorn Sales? Trips? Field Trips? Patrol Hikes? Scout show exhibits? Service projects?
5. In their annual plan do they have a variety of of activities. Camping? Backpacking? Canoeing? Travelling – stay on a historic ship/historic places (towns/battlefields/etc)/climbing gyms/ropes courses/museums/???
Larry–actually combinationof the two. I didn’t walk away but let them do it. This is before I have done better at backing off. On another topic. I did leave the PLC. They planned the enxt few troop meetings. A couple weeks ago the SPL took the troop outside–decrease my and other adults temptation to interfer–and they got ideas for troop meetings. They were a littel weak but had some good ideas. So the SPL took that to the PLC and they have a game night every night. We have a Committee/parents meeting the same time and inform those parents present of these plans and we’re going to let them go. I was a little disappointed. I don’t really have a question ewxcept that we need to ride this out or “make some suggestions” for topics to meetings. I have donw this in the past, but I felt the troop meetings were my “ideas”. how can I find a middl ground or should I.
Hi Doug
When you say “I did.”, what does that mean?
1. Did you sit down and create a roster with three patrols and then assign Scouts to those Patrols?
2. Did you sit down with your PLC and tell them that, “Look guys, I’m just really not comfortable working this way. I want you to make three 12 man patrols so that I can be comfortable with our campouts.” and then walk away?
The question, to me, is not how efficient things are on a campout or whether they have their Patrol flags with them, or whatever, but it’s: what is the Troop leadership learning? If you created the roster yourself then they learned nothing.
Patrols are a very individual thing to a Scout. It’s his place in the Troop. It’s not his Scoutmaster’s idea of an efficient organization. It would sort of be like if your mom and dad chose your wife and then told you how many and when to have your children. How to raise them. Where to send them to school, etc.
But it’s ok that as Scoutmaster you set some goals. For instance, tell your PLC that we are not going to go camping with 1 or 2 Scouts in a Patrol anymore. It’s not happening every once in a while, it’s happening all of the time. Find a solution and find it now. I think that the solution is larger Patrols in this Troop. I recommend three Patrols of 12 each. I need this fixed. I gotta go now.
Sometimes the leadership in a Troop needs a challenge. You can’t always ignore issues. At the same time we shouldn’t just do their work for them. A balance. Where’s the balance? Are you happy now? Is your SPL happy? Are your three Patrol leaders happy? If so, then you are on your way to striking a balance. Hopefully this incident will establish a tradition with your Troop leadership and the rest of the Scouts in the Troop and they will be able to handle it themselves for the next 2 or 3 years. Or maybe six months 🙂
Well here is a follow up from several months ago. The Scouts have several opportunities over the last several months to change patrol make up and have not. I did. I don’t know if it was in these postings that in doing patrols and camp outs, we would only have 1-3 from each patrol to shop and camp and it was difficult to do the patrol method–so we now have 12 in 3 patrols and the last 2 campouts we had 5-6 in each of 3 patrols make. They broguht their patrol flag, shopped by patrol and cooked by patrol. It has been interesting process but it is going along. I have trying to encourage the Scouts to actually change the patrol make up but they have decided not. I did ask what they (PLC last night) what they woudl do with the 7-9 new Webelos bridging into the troop and they said new patrol. I’m ready for comments!
As the SPL currently in my troop, and this is how’s it’s been for many years. Our patrols were created after our troop elections. Each patrol leader had input on the members of their patrol.
Clarke… Although I have been listening to you for a while, it was my SPL that mentioned your chart to me!
Clarke… My numbers have declined of late (participation, not registration) and patrol lines have become ‘fuzzy’. Several SM Conf’s later and the a common theme is coming out… Boys want to be in patrols with other boys. The idea above seems to be just the shot in the arm my Troop needs. Question though… What kind of a pattern should my SPL see on the chart to know who wants to be with who? Thanks in advance for everything you do and have done!
There’s no pattern to look for, this is just a way of tracking who wants to be with who. Once you ask the Scouts for their preferences and track them on the chart the choices are pretty obvious.
Before you roll the chart out, though, ask your senior patrol leader what he plans to do. He may have a better way of handling this than the chart. If he draws a blank than ask him if he thinks the chart idea is useful.
How is it handled when there is a scout that does not get along with others? Is the rearranging of the patrols done at a regulare troop meeting or only at PLC, so the patrol leaders and SPL & ASPL are the only ones that have input?
Thanks.
Hopefully the Scoutmaster is counselling this Scout to work out any difficulties. It is the responsibility of the PLC to arrange patrols, let them do it without any oversight and take a look at the results. If things don’t go well they can make some changes if need be – they will be the first to know!
Just an update–the PLC had choices, by themselves– to change patrol make-up and decided not to change for now–but they now know they can. At a recent Troop Leadership training, I stayed back and one of the ASM sitting with me watching the SPL had a big grin on his face. He said you really want to be in there helping him—I admitted yes. He did very well even though they didn’t finish! Thanks for the advice! Continuing the process!
In the past, our adults decided when it was time to reorganize the patrols, and we had standing patrols. Now, the boys just do it whenever they see the need. We have one standing patrol of older Scouts (high school age) and the boys have decided that when one of them reaches 9th grade, he can go to that patrol (the George patrol – long story). It’s sort of a de-facto venture patrol except they don’t do separate activities.
Usually what has happened recently is that a patrol will get too small to be functional, as its members leave the troop or drift upwards into the George patrol, so they merge with another patrol in the same situation. Our new Scouts tend to form a patrol of their own, so it’s a constant churn – as old patrols merge, new ones form. Adults are pretty much hands-off in all of this, except for the SPL to consult with the SM.
There is no prescribed time to do this, but often it happens around troop election time.
A few years ago we did a mass reorganization, as the patrols had gotten way out of balance (we had 15 boys in one, 2 in another). All we did was have the boys reorganize themselves – go stand by your friends, basically – and it all worked out really well.
The grid looks like a great tool for troops about that size. We have 68 registered Scouts so you’d have to use a roll of butcher paper to make ours!
OK, just confirming, after the chart is filled in the SPL analyzes the scouts choices and then creates patrol assignments based on the chart?
Our patrols were very out of balance and we new we were expecting a good growth this year with bridging Webelos. We completely reorganized the patrols by allowing a Junior ASM to do it. The SM had pre-discussed with the J-ASM about balancing out rank within the patrols as a new starting point. This happened concurrently with the SPL elections. In fact we might have announced the new alignment the same night we elected the new SPL.
Good points. I tend–and tell the Scouts so, that when they see me taking too much “control” for me to back down. They do pretty good at teklling me and I try to watch it myself, so those are good points. Most have stayed with the patrol they have been with for years, but we will check with them at the next PLC. Setting up New Scout in a patrol I feel is important–usually we try to get a Troop Guide (volunteer) for them.
Doug I would like to point out a small point. We (all adults and parents) do a good job for the most part of teaching our sons to respect and obey adults. So when you say you have them telling you to “back down” I am left wondering how far over the line it takes for them to say something. It has been my experience that most(if not all) boys would let an adult take over as much as the adult wanted. I am amazed that they even have the courage to tell you when you’ve gone too far. If I were you I’d rely more so on other adults(Asst. Scoutmasters) to tell you when you’ve crossed the line. Another idea would be as Clarke has suggested on numerous occasions, keep a distance that requires some thought to cross the room and realize you don’t need to take over.
Thanks Dave—-the adults have been told and do tell me. We usually instill this (adult “leading” or not leading) in the first few campouts the new scouts go on and to their paren(s).–also at Webelos campout too.
Our scouts have changed patrols periodically, either due to boys aging out, new boys coming in or they just want to change them. We’ve gone from older boy & new scout patrols to mixed patrols & back to the former when a new SPL who wants to change it comes into play. It’s up to them–it’s their troop. That’s the way it should be. The adult leaders just roll with it, as we should. TroopMaster helps us keep on top of who is in what patrol.
It was set up many years ago by adults. There was a lot of moving/switching of patrols, primarily because of friends. We felt that if the Scout thought about the reasons to change and went through this process it would decrease frequent changes in patrol make up. It was thought they could still move/switch, but would need to have some “process”. The words aren’t really counted, but the thought is to have the Scout think through the reason he wants to move. And yes, just to go to another patrol with a friend is accepted for the “essay”. There has been some changes in patrol make up as some patrols may creep down in numbers to 5 or less and then there is re-arrangement with the input of the Scouts involved. We will re-visit at the next PLC–Thanks
I am being a little hard-nosed here (hopefully good-heartedly so) because I think we too often take over aspects of the patrol that should be left to the Scouts. I’d encourage you to turn your current practice on it’s head – instead of adults rearranging things or being concerned over the frequency of changes why not let the Scouts handle it as they see fit? What if you went to the patrol leaders council and said ‘We’ve been managing patrols one way; how would you all like to change that?” let them discuss and come up with their own plan and then step back and let them at it.
Ours are pretty much permanant, but two opportunities to move: 1) Life Scout has option to move into the Boltz Patrol (Life Scouts) or 2) move to another patrol by getting permission from a) both the new and old patol leader, b) one ASM and c) write 100 words on why he would like to move. This doesn’t make it permanant but the Scout has to go through a process to move.
Did the Scouts initiate this process or was it something adults set up? 100 word essay- really? I would ask the Scouts whether or not they wanted to change this- sounds like they would.
Clarke, does your troop periodically reorganize patrol membership, or once a Scout is assigned a patrol does he remain in it for the rest of his time in the troop, barring any problems?
The Scouts in our troop rearrange things when they see fit. There’s a lot of persuasive arguments to be made for ‘permanent’ patrols and ones that are more fluid. My take: adult leaders usually prefer to have permanent patrols that last for years and years – Scouts don’t really care about such things; they want to be in a patrol with their friends.