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Do your Scouts like Camporees? We attend a District or Council Camporee every three or four years because it takes that long for our Scouts to forget what the last Camporee was like.
At every annual planning conference I suggest to my patrol leader’s council that we include whatever Camporee or district event is planned for the next few months: “What are we going to do at the Camporee?” they ask
“I don’t really know exactly, they haven’t published a program as of yet.” I reply, “But they are usually a Patrol competition type thing – kind of like the last one we went to a couple of years ago.”
That’s usually the end of the discussion. The Scouts who were around for the last Camporee remember being crowded into a little patch of field with the adults camping three feet away, running around to events where fifty other Scouts were waiting in line, and being herded to campfires or ceremonies and listening to adults tell them things they little understood or cared about.
I always feel bad about this because I want my Scouts to like Camporees; potentially they are a lot of fun. Try as a may it seems like I can’t get them interested until nobody on the patrol leaders council has attended a Camporee in the past.
We usually don’t know what’s going to happen at a Camporee far enough ahead to inform our decision; the date is set but the program details aren’t determined until a month or so before the Camporee. Most Camporees I have attended are adult-led events and adults seem to think that Scouts want something new and different. I’ve seen different kinds of competitions, displays, shows, visitors and such; none seem to impress the Scouts and many of them they just plain disliked.
Most of the Troops in our district go to our council camp every summer. The program at camp has not changed substantially in the last fifty or sixty years: same schedule, same events, same, same ,same. Yet our Scouts enthusiastically go for the week at camp for six or seven years running. In February we’ll have our 25th annual father and son weekend. The program for that weekend has not changed substantially for all those years and it is tremendously popular with the Scouts.They do the same events, keep the same schedule and would be upset of anything changed too much.
These programs get tweeked each time, small refinements and improvements but they are predictable. Scouts know how to plan and look forward to what is going to happen.
What if our Camporees never changed? Same place, same program, same events every year. Patrol competitions would not change, same campfire program, same ceremonies; same, same same.
I think my Scouts would really like this in the same way that they like summer camp. They know what to expect, they know how things work, they can lead Scouts going through their first week easily because they have seen it before. Instead of being bored they are energized because they know what will happen and how to prepare for it. If the program never changed Scouts could actually take on responsibilities for the Camporee program rather than adults running everything.
Do your Scouts like Camporees?
I agree with the premise that the competition theme is a difficult one to follow.
I have attended a number of camporees and found the most successful one we have had is where we gave the Troops information about 60 days in advance on how to build catapults to shoot water balloons against a fort the adults built in the center of the field. What this allowed to happen is that the Troops had to work together in building and testing their catapults prior to the Camporee. When they came to Camporee they had to build their catapult from scratch. It was great in that there were no long lines where you wait for crews to appear to compete against your scouts and you will not have more experienced scouts trashing the younger ones. If you have a troop come not prepared they do not drag the rest of the group down as can happen in your normal competitions.
I am Scoutmaster of Troop 787 in Central Florida Council. At our annual planning conference we discuss attending Camporees. Usually we just attend the fall one as it’s Program Guide is out by June so troops can evaluate during their annual planning. in addition our OA Call-out is at that event. The Spring Camporee is usually skipped as the guide is not usually out more than 90 days in advance. With a troop of 16 patrols (130+ scouts) we have a policy to have campouts locked down more than 90 days ahead of time.
Our Council Camporee just occurred (Dec 2-4) and was an absolute success. We had 2500 scouts, venturers and Webelos II’s and 700 scouters in attendance. Theme was “Fun on a Human Scale, with a Jamboree flair”. The main games were: Human Foosball, Ultimate, Tank Maneuvers, Patrol Maneuvers, Caterpillar Walk, Tarantula Race and He Ain’t Heavy He’s My Brother. in addition, there were 55 Minute-To-Win-It games in the Midway Area. There were 12 District Sub-camps where they camped and played all the games. Also had a Midway area focused on the National Jamboree, NESA, Winter Camp, Native American Weekend, etc.
The morning was all about “Learning” the games while the afternoon was competition with top 3 in each event getting ribbons in the district. The District Champs competed at 4:00 to determine Council champions. The scouts were 100% active all day. The last Foosball field shutdown at 10 PM (We had light plants for safety).
For the evening we had a “rock” oriented band, followed by a “day in review” video of the days activities and finished with a “country” band.
The feedback has been tremendous!
The sub-camps were Jamboree like and did have that close feeling; however, troops had multiple sites depending on number of attendees so the could have some space.
There were 158 units in attendance.
The website has photos and there is a video on YouTube. Search for Central Florida Council Camporee.
I’ve never been to or heard of a Troop having a Father/Son campout. Might be cool.
We have a family campout each year. Everyone is invited. Mom, Dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, Grandma, etc. The main event is a large pot-luck dinner and campfire. We mostly play all day and relax.
Off topic a bit – I’m more interested in what your Father – Son campout consists of. I’d like to see if we can’t get something like that going in our Troop and I’m curious as to what you guys do at yours. Thanks in advance!
Hey Kyle – Here’s some info about our Father & Son Weekend
Our boys are somewhat ambivalent about camporees. They tend to agree to go, though some years recently they’ve skipped. I think about every other year is good. That way, you don’t fall into a rut. We went to our district camporee in October, but only about a quarter of the boys participated. It was a marching band competition and cross-country meet weekend, which took away basically all of our high-school Scouts (normal for fall), but there were plenty more who didn’t attend for one reason or another.
In the last five years, our district has gone to what we call a “Unity Camporee” theme, where every troop puts on one of the activities. This takes a lot of the load off the organizing committee while giving everyone a stake in the outcome. The adults run the activities while the boys go from event to event. This way, the Scouts can ask their adults to do something they would like to participate in, so it ends up being youth-driven. I’ve served on several camporee committees, and usually set up the amateur radio station for JOTA, so I know how difficult it is to try to coordinate everything. Prior to the Unity theme, our camporees were usually staged by various troops and crews, the EVOA, and the OA lodge.
One could argue that a camporee gives a “lazy” PLC a month off from planning a campout, but it also gives them the opportunity to see how other troops camp and meet Scouts from outside their own troop. They can also invite Webelos scouts to visit, and can recruit those who attend. The shoulder-to-shoulder camping and close proximity of adults doesn’t make for the ideal outdoor experience, though, but it’s not intended to.
One way to change it up would be to seek out camporees in other districts and councils and find out if you can participate. Our troop is going to a camporee in another state next spring.
Interesting juxtaposition.
Brand new SM with brand new troop liked it. Learned something. Scouts had fun.
Very experienced troop and leaders with a lot of history and experience do not like it.
I think someday Blaise’s troop may be more like Michael’s and may have the same attitude. After some low recruiting years and changes in leadership, Michael’s troop may be more like Blaise’s and have the same attitude.
Kudos Michael to you and your sons!!
Larry:
Ironically, I loved Camporees as a Scout, especially as a patrol leader and later SPL, because of the troop v. troop and patrol v. patrol competitions. But my current troop is so large and involved in so many interesting activities (we’re the leading Stem-NOVA test troop, we’re a cover story in Boy’s Life in a few months, 50 milers, Philmont, etc.) that I think our Scouts just find the Camporees boring and parochial. That, and the fact that seem very poorly organized and run. That they choose another troop campout over a Camporee is a decision with which I can’t really disagree.
You may be right about the after-effects of a low recruiting year, but we haven’t had one of those in two decades. We have to turn away Webelos every year, or we’d quickly become a 200 Scout troop. Our problem, if it is one, is that we are top-heavy with Scouts who have earned, or are working on, their Eagle and stay in the troop to the day they age out or leave for college. It has become an overwhelming challenge to keep them interested and engaged.
Perhaps that other scenario lies somewhere in our future, but we are working hard on our SM succession planning.
P.S. Thanks for the kind words about my sons. I’m equally proud of the two dozen or so other Scouts I’ve had the honor to mentor to Eagle over the last five years. These remarkable young men give me hope for the future.
I preface this comment by noting that my 50 year old troop has always been pretty independent of all Council activities — in fact, until I recently joined the Council board and another ASM started attending District roundtables, we had had almost no Council participation in a generation. The one local event in which did participate was the Camporee. That was six years ago. Each September, our Vanguard patrol, led by the SPL, holds a barbecue — and with the SM and I helping with the brainstorming, the Scouts come up with the monthly campouts for the next year. Each September the SM and I dutifully toss in the April Camporee . . .and each year these senior Scouts (the only ones in the troop who even remember the last time the Troop went to the Camporee) quickly
vote it down. The experience of that last Camporee, indifferently created and led by the Council OA, was so miserable that it has now become a troop legend, passed down from one age cohort to the next. My oldest son (now a 20 yr old Eagle) went that weekend and swore he’d quit Scouting if ever forced to go again. My 15 year Life Scout son has been to a world, national and regional Jamboree, but has never been to the local one — and I doubt he ever will. Indeed, I doubt my troop will ever again attend another Camporee.
Another interesting discussion! As a new Scoutmaster, I have greatly enjoyed both Camporees our Troop has attended (as well as the Klondike Derby we attended last winter as Webelos). For the Spring Camporee, another Troop allowed our brand new Scouts to camp along with theirs. This allowed the boys to get a better idea what they were supposed to be doing. The adults then were able to wander between campsites – gleaning much knowledge – particularly the sort not taught at Scoutmaster training. We camped as a solo unit for the Fall Camporee. I enjoyed an outing in which I didn’t have to worry about programming. Our boys ranked this as one of their favorite campouts of the year. I feel the biggest benefit of the Camporees is to allow networking among troops and Scoutmasters. I received ideas about future possible outings, sources of quality gear, advice about Summer camp, etc.. The more relaxed setting was better than Roundtable for me to ask my “dumb” questions. The negatives in my mind are 1) the proximity of many Troops camping in relatively barren fields and 2) my first year Scouts tend to not want to interact with Scouts from different troops 3) the awards given for the inter-troop competitions tend to be dominated by the larger troops. We certainly plan on attending next year.
Good point about networking. We always scope out the gear other Troops bring.
The best way of handling inter-patrol competitions I have seen was one that we did at summer camp as an evening program with three levels of challenge that patrols could self-select. This opened things up a bit. Each patrol that successfully completed a set of challenges got a ribbon for that level and 1st, 2nd and 3rd were awarded to the top three competing at each level.
Sore nerve, there Clarke. You touched a sore nerve with this one 🙂
Our camparees tend to be exhibit oriented. We get some mountain man re-enactors, some Indian dance teams, a troop sponsored ropes course setup, riffle shooting, and archery. And it is a cast of thousands as every troop in the council is expected to show up. Since it is every four years, I usually don’t have scouts going who have seen one before. (the scouts who went the last time usually don’t go.)
I remember as a kid that our council camporees were more competition based. I won a contest to see who could put up an army pup tent, like the ones our troop used, the fastest. We knew the competition was coming, and practiced. I don’t know this, but I think my scouts would love those kinds of events at camporee. Games like: Who can put together a stretcher from poles and tee shirts and carry a scout 100 feet the quickest. My scouts would eat up a “Fastest String Burn contest” or a compass orienteering game. I think someone on the council level does not think much of competitive games because we never see these things.
We do see some bizarre troop practices. One troop let their scouts run through the camp stealing other troops flags. These scouts were told that it is an old tradition that at camporee there is a “Flag Stealing” game that all troops play against each other, and the boys were encouraged to get out there and bring back all the troop and patrol flags they could lay their hands on. These boys tore through troop campsites causing lots of havoc along the way, and taking more than just flags. Of course, no other scoutmaster there ever heard of anything like this. In fact, no district exec or council professional had either. They had a long, behind closed doors discussion with that scoutmaster after the camporee was over. Some troops never did get their flags and other pilfered stuff back.
I do think the smaller camporees would be more fun. Ours is just too big, too cramped, and too hard to find anything. And our council pro’s are so proud of it after it is over.
I have to say that if you don’t like your district Camporee why not ry to help change it? Ours was SO comitition driven a few years ago that it was really out of control. Once, SM were fighting over rules for each event at the Roundtable planning meeting. I got up in the middle and walked out quite loudly. I was so ticked. I knew that it was bad and didn’t attend the Camporee until a friend of mine took it over and really changed the whole thing. Now it has the same basic schedule and core events with enough changed to keep the kids excited about the weekends activities. Each year has a different theme and focuses of the essential scout skills. Our scouts love it and work the skills into their annual plan to make sure that they win the big trophy. Which they did two years in a row.
I voluteered to perform the check-in inspections and really enjoy that.
However, this year was a little different. We had a huge surprise hail storm. Scouts and leaders ran for the cars. All of which were damaged in some way. Every troop lost at least some equipment. Our troop lost 4 scout tents. The leaders tent and one large canopy were wrecked. Ironically, the Camporee patch has what is supposed to be stars but to us is really the hail that fell. Thank God none of the boys were hurt but one ASM, not attending, from a nearby troop died in a weather related traffic accident. Only showers were forcast for the afternoon. Please make sure that your Camporee has a severe weather plan and that emergency notifications can be relayed quickly to all leaders.
“if you don’t like your district Camporee why not ry to help change it?”
Fair question; I have made a couple of different attempts over time to no effect.
Our troop just returned from our 2nd Camporee this year by request of the senior scouts recognizing many of the younger scouts were not ready for 20 mile round trip back-packing trip to Havasu Falls, AZ. After each camp out we circle up for a ‘Thorns, Roses, & Buds” discussion. At that time or the next Troop meeting we pass out camping assessment 3 x 5 cards. The questions are:
Fun Factor: low 1 2 3 4 5 high
Cost Benefit: low 1 2 3 4 5 high
Scouts pitched their tents in patrol campsites ? yes or no
Camp menus planned & prepared by patrols? yes or no
Scouts properly trained in outdoor skills? yes or no
Adults properly trained in outdoor skills? yes or no
Would you like to do this campout again? yes or no
Please post comments, concerns, questions on back of card.
Then working with the PLC, the feed back is tallied and review to see how we can make the next outdoor adventure better than the one before. So how were the results for the Mountain Man Camporee last month?
Best Camporee to date, no rain, with great practice in staying hydrated. One of our scouts won the over all Dutch Oven Cooking competition with a pizza dish.
Fun Factor results: Average=3.4 Max=5, Min=1 C
ost Benefit results: Average=2.9 Max=4, Min=1
Scouts pitched their tents by patrols,
Camp Menus were planned & prepared by patrols however cross feeding and arguing occurred.
Most Scouts were properly trained in outdoor skills.
Adults were properly trained in outdoor skills.
16 of 18 would like to do this again.
16 of 18 scouts would like to have the troop trailer at the departure to load food, water, ,personal gear to travel as a troop rather than several car pools scattered throughout Friday and Saturday morning.
Yours In Scouting,
Scoutmaster Niemeyer
No.
Might have something to do with me. I don’t like them either.
Troops that have lots and lots and lots of equipment and trailers and trucks and stuff seem to just love that stuff. They show up around 3:00pm Friday and work until about noon on Saturday getting everything set up and then start packing stuff up after dinner on Saturday and work until around 10:00am Sunday morning. The Scouts tend to basically be troops for the adults to lead around. I’ll not say anything more.
When I was SM we only went to camporees where I was sure that we could find someplace slightly away from the crowds. I don’t have the patience to camp in the middle of 15 or so 12 year old Webelos Dens.
At the last Camporee we attended there was a troop with a couple of trailers and more gee gaws then I have ever seen before. To top it all off they had an ATV too. I really should have taken pictures.
wow. . . .
Lots and lots of trailers. Bummer. My sons troop went to Summer Camp for a week and to the local Camporee for three days. Each time the scouts hiked to their camp from the parking lot with what they needed on their backs. They call it backpacking. One pick up came in and dropped off two small bins with a dutch oven , extra rope and a few poles for their event.
Keep it simple,Keep it fun.
Our Camporees are sometimes good, sometimes not. Hit or miss. My Scouts aren’t that enthusiastic about them. Camping right up with the adults doesn’t help. The rushed organization can hurt. This year, due to recent experience, our PLC has elected not to attend a single game. The Klondike Derby, which is basically the same each year, is well-liked however. The games are quick and well-organized and Scouts know what to expect.
Yes, my Scouts like Camp-o-rees. In fact they like them so much they are often what draws a Scout who hasn’t been seen for months back into being active and we use them for recruiting by inviting people who might be interested to come see Scouting in action. The problem I am seeing here that makes your Camp-o-rees not fun is not consistency, but size. You have too many people attending to make it run how it is supposed to run. My Troop has gone to our two District C-O-Rs every year as long as I have been active, about 20 years, and I have been to several other District and Council C-O-Rs, and if there are more than about 250 people there, it hasn’t been fun. The lines, short supply of camping space, and the logistics of running it lead to a lot of hurry up and wait situations. A certain amount of being the same can help. We know each year that the events will be First Aid, Fire Building, Knots, Lashings, Nature, Orienteering, Fitness, Marksmanship, and then one or two other random Scout Skills, but each of those subjects is pretty deep and there is a new flavor each year.
My scouts love our camporees. Ours are run as a competition between all of the various troops in our District. While we have a unique ‘theme’ each year, many of the games are the same. They get tweeked a little each year, but for the most part remain the same. So to echo Mr. Green, maybe they love the sameness or familiarity.
We pull our games straight from the scout handbook with a basic focus on the First Class Trail. If it’s in the handbook, that’s what you should be practicing. One nice thing is that even if you didn’t know the actual contest before you arrived, if you know your handbook, you’ll do just fine.
We have also recently added a conservation component to our events. This was mainly to help offset the cost of a location, but it seems to be working out rather well.
“crowded into a little patch of field with the adults camping three feet away”
That might have something to do with it.
For us, OA tap-outs are at summer camp at the Wednesday night camp fire. I think the kids would like a little stability in the Camporee programs. Maybe change the overall theme but the field events either stay the same or the changes announced at least 6 months in advance.
We try to participate in our District and/or Council camporee. In our area, we have three years of District camporees; the Council camporee is every four years.
Depending on location, camping sites are a little cramped but we try to seperate the patrols from the adults and so far it’s worked out.
Most of the time events are either patrol-style or individual “show up and do something” style. We encourage the scouts to explore in groups of two or more (or as a patrol, depending on if they patrol competition). The adults wander the events area as well, participating whenever possible but letting the scouts take center stage.
Our District has run “conservation Camporee” events, where half the day is spent working on a conservation project to help out the area we’re in – oftentimes for reduced fees for the camping area. Last month at the District camporee we helped remove small trees and brush around a reservoir area we were camping at. The scouts had a great time cutting down and hauling the trees and branches. The whole conservation area was cleaned up by lunchtime – a feat the ranger was amazed we were able to pull off.
Like Clarke wrote, we often times don’t know what the activities will be, so we stay loose and try to fold in scout-led, patrol-method camping around whatever is going on. The SPL and ASPLs take the lead on getting us to activities, and beyond that we take things as they come.
Camporees blow chunks. Our COR was pushing us to go to one and so we went to one. It was advertised as a Air Show and so we went to a Scout Camp (stagging area) and then were shuttled via bus to an airport to set up camp. We were on the very last bus to get to the airport because there were so many Scouts attending. We got to the airport at 12 AM. Another Troop had taken my Troop, Team and Crew’s camp area. When my Team Captain talked with the Troop’s SPL we sort of got the “don’t know what to tell you”. I asked to speak to the Scoutmaster and got the same thing. So we picked an open area and put up camp quickly and passed out.
In the AM, a neighborhood Troop allowed their boys to run Helter Skelter around the area destroying a bamoo’ed area next to our camp. I kept thinking “Leave No Trace”. It was better at that point that I didn’t say anything.
There were NO patrol competitions at this Camporee. All the activities had ridiculous lines and we waited for EVERYTHING. And the Air Show lasted 14 minutes with ONE plane. My boys were not happy at all. I secretly was glad they didn’t like it.
If that is the case, does that mean none of the scouts are being inducted into OA, which usually happens at camporee (at least for us), or is that done at summer camp?
Are you taking about Scouts doing their ordeal at a camporee or just being called out as a candidate?
I was referring to the callout/tapout.
Candidates can still complete Ordeal without being called out. Our procedures are changing here (as in other parts of the country). Rather than being elected in January and called out at summer camp, then having ten months thereafter to complete Ordeal, our candidates now have 12 months from election. This basically means no more callout ceremonies at summer camp, but it leaves the door open to a wide variety of other options, including unit campfire callouts (which we are planning). Eventually they’ll get a letter from the lodge so one way or the other they’ll be notified. I’ll miss the canoes and drums and flaming arrows but welcome the change so that candidates don’t have to wait months and months to become Arrowmen.