I received this question from a reader;
I’m a assistant scoutmaster and was recently contacted by a dad of a scout that after one year is still at Scout rank. It seems that his dad is looking for shortcuts, as many other scouts have bypassed him and our recently added Webelos are already achieving their Scout rank.
Specifically dad asks: “Can I use a requirement for one merit badge to fulfill some requirements for others? For instance, Cit. In the community requires a presentation and Public Speaking requires a presentation. Can I fulfill both requirements with one presentation?”
I don’t see where it says I can’t. Perhaps a little guidance in this matter?
So the first thing I notice is dad is asking the question not the scout. In fact the dad phrases the whole question as if he is earning the merit badge. But how should I answer this dad. I looked in the guide for advancement and couldn’t find anything either. I guess I could check back with the individual merit badge books.
Dads and Moms can get a little overheated when it comes to their son’s Scout advancement. Sometimes they can be gently dissuaded from this by a quiet reminder of who does what and why; sometimes not. An important thing to remember is that a Scout should never be made to suffer for things beyond his control and the attitudes and actions of his parents are usually beyond his control.
First off let me state two things that may change your approach a bit;
- Scouts cannot fall behind or be bypassed in advancement. Scouts do things when they want, when they are ready. Sometimes faster than others, sometimes slower, sometimes not at all. Any one of those three is perfectly acceptable. His fellow Scouts may be advancing faster but that is not a necessarily a reflection on his intelligence, interest or engagement.
- The fulfillment of merit badge requirements is a matter for merit badge counselors and not Scoutmasters or Assistant Scoutmasters. What you need to know is how the process works rather than the answers to badge-specific questions.
So can a Scout use the same activity to satisfy two similar requirements? You won’t find too many definitive statements or rules about this because, given the number of instances where a single activity could fulfill multiple requirements, it would be a very long rule indeed. That’s why this matter (very wisely) is left for the merit badge counselor to determine on a case by case basis; the Scout asks the merit badge counselor and the counselor determines if the activity satisfies the requirement. The question also comes up with using merit badge activities to satisfy rank requirements or vice-versa; it’s up to the counselor or the person signing the requirement in the book to determine if a single activity satisfied multiple requirements.
Here’s an excellent statement about the prime consideration of advancement expressed in the Guide to Advancement you can share with this dad:
2.0.0.3 Personal Growth Is Prime Consideration
Scouting skills—what a young person learns to do—are important, but not as important as the growth achieved through participating in a unit program. The concern is for total, well-rounded development. Age-appropriate surmountable hurdles are placed before members, and as they face them they learn about themselves and gain confidence. Success is achieved when we fulfill the BSA Mission Statement and when we accomplish the aims of Scouting: character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness. We know we are on the right track when we see youth accepting responsibility, demonstrating self-reliance, and caring for themselves and others; when they learn to weave Scouting ideals into their lives; and when we can see they will be positive contributors to our American society.Though certainly goal-oriented, advancement is not a competition. Rather, it is a joint effort involving the leaders, the members, other volunteers such as merit badge counselors or Venturing consultants, and the family. Though much is done individually at their own pace, youth often work together in groups to focus on achievements and electives at Cub Scout den meetings, for example, or participate in a Boy Scout campout or Sea Scout cruise. As they do this, we must recognize each young person’s unique combination of strengths and weaknesses. As watchful leaders, either adult or youth, we lend assistance as called for and encourage members to help each other according to their abilities.
Dad want’s to help, and that’s good, he’s anxious about his son and that’s pretty common. Most Scouts go through a period of inactivity advancement wise – it’s no big deal but parent’s don’t always know that. It’s difficult to redirect their efforts sometimes but most Scouts survive them.
I’d also have a conference with the Scout. Ask him what he hopes to do advancement wise, if he’s happy, etc. I have had a lot of scouts who just aren’t interested in advancement for a year or two who go on to become Eagle Scouts – when they get it in their minds that it’s something they want to do they can’t be stopped.
I’ve worked with many parents who I would consider to be overly involved in their son’s Scouting. They usually calm down a bit if I can talk to them about the nature of Scout advancement but sometimes I don’t get anywhere. We are charged to work with our Scouts as they come to us. We can’t change what happens at home.
I was really startled when I read the official BSA definition of advancement as “a series of surmountable obstacles”, but that is a very wise description. These are challenges of exactly the right size, and the boy chooses to achieve them.
Parents looking for shortcuts is a very deep misunderstanding of what advancement is all about. It is wrong on all counts.
Larry beat me to my point: Why is a Scout, not even at Tenderfoot Rank, sweating over multiple merit badges? Yes I understand MB’s can be worked on at any rank. However, this Scout should be pushing First Class Rank after a year in a active troop using the Patrol Method.
As a Scoutmaster, I’d mention to my SPL to have this Scout’s PL or maybe a Troop Guide or two work with this Scout to get him at least his Tenderfoot in the next month. Also, I’d have a chat with the Dad on how advancement works in Scouting.
Hi Clarke
The question sounded like he was asking if the Scout could use Merit Badge stuff for his regular rank advancement. At least to me anyway.
To me the question becomes, why does this Scout have a bunch of MB stuff done and is still Tenderfoot? Many parents become confused about advancement and think that it’s all about Merit Badges. It sounds to me like this Dad needs to understand that the MBs don’t do the Scout much good until he is First Class.
Also, I would not start with the Scout and the Dad, I would start with the SPL and then the PL. I would find out from them first what they think is going on. Larry rule # 14 (ala Ask Andy 🙂 ) – Never talk to Scouts or parents until I talk to the Scout’s leaders. Maybe I should say: Never deal with a parent about a Scout until I talk to the Scouts leaders. Of course you have to talk to the parents when they show up. I would just hold them off until I chat with my guys.
Usually from his Patrol leader, “Oh yeah, Johnny.” Eye Roll.
Or sometimes it’s, “Oh yeah, Johnny. He has almost everything for Second Class and First Class signed off except for this one requirement in Second Class that he just won’t get done.” If it’s a really good conversation the Patrol Leaders sounds almost like mom, “I’ve been bugging him about it and he’s just procrastinating.” That’s when I put on my best SM face and say, “Ok. Thanks for the info. […insert long pause here…] Oh, and by the way, how’s that Eagle Project coming along?” Wink wink. 🙂
The troop adult leadership needs to explain better to this parent how advancement works in Boy Scouts. It also sounds like the boy hasn’t been engaged in his patrol sufficiently, unless he just hasn’t been coming to troop meetings or going on any campouts. After a year, certainly he’s done at least some advancement items; perhaps the Scout doesn’t realize that it’s his responsibility to get the book signed by one of the other Scouts.
It also sounds like the parent is confusing advancement requirements with merit badges. Perhaps the boy (or the dad?) has been working on merit badges to the exclusion of doing Tenderfoot things.
You need to nip in the bud the idea that parents and their sons work together on advancement. While it’s certainly not prohibited that the parent is involved, the general intent is for the boy to work with his peers on advancement and other adults on merit badges. Mom & dad stopped signing requirements way back in Cub Scouts. Parents certainly can help, but in a secondary, supportive role.